WAS - another plea...NOW -discussion about Diapering

[PatchyMama]

to put the diapering board back together. please.We miss the way it was and miss the many mamas who have left because of it


Edited 12/16 because this has turned into more of a discussion about the forum and hard feelings about the forum in general than about the split/organization of the forum

[Cynthia Mosher]

I'll repeat what I said in the last thread asking for a switch back to the old setup:

I do think we need to give it all a fair chance and that will take some time. We tend to make changes and give it at least a three to six month effort before we review things. In the meantime we will monitor activity and see how things are going. Diapering is one of our most popular places at MDC so we certainly don't want to see the forum die out.

As some have mentioned in discussion, the changed posting atmosphere may be due to a variety of things: the new 50/60 rule for the TP and a few other forums, the pervert issue of snatching images that arose in the summer, the saturation of the hyena market, quite a number of WAHMs going out of business, and the reorganization of the forum.

Something else to consider - this time of year is usually a bit slower for MDC and the Diapering forum is no exception. We see it every year at this same time. Repeating myself again, I can't say that any decline that may be present is specifically due to the change in the setup. But change often does cause a hesitation or a pause in activity as people are a bit taken aback and it takes some time to get used to things. We expect it and have seen it before in other changes we've made so it is normal to some extent.

My recent checking of numbers shows an increase in threads lately which is rather odd for November. So that is a positive sign. But it will be into the new year before our traffic returns to its usual pace. So it's really not appropriate to take any current decline in posting as a significant sign of change that can be blamed on forum reorganization and make any decision about the forum setup now. We'll look at everything again in the Spring.

I'm sorry that some members took the change personally and made a decision to not post here anymore. I hope they can reconsider and give the new setup another go.

[LoveBaby]

Originally Posted by mama2kyla

to put the diapering board back together. please.We miss the way it was and miss the many mamas who have left because of it

Cynthia, I appreciate your statement. However....like Tif figured in the "where are the hyena's?" thread, the thread count is significantly lower than it was *at the same time last year*, so your saying "things are slower now" doesn't really makes sense. And, as far as the post count goes up in November...perhaps it's because the thread "where are the hyena?" prompted all of the alienated mama's who don't post anymore to actually post. And as far as I can read it seems to me that they all are saying the same thing. Put it back the way it was.

It's been several months already since the split and this same issue is brought up over and over, with the majority of the diapering posters saying the same thing. I'm disappointed that our pleas are not being heard.

[Sugarwoman]

Please let us go back to the way it was. It is so dull and boring these days that I hardly post anymore. The forum split has really taken a lot of the fun out of CDing for many of us. I really think it is hurting a lot of WAHM's businesses, too.

[vkberes]

We tend to make changes and give it at least a three to six month effort before we review things.

So are you essentially telling us it is a waste of time to even discuss this since you will not entertain the idea of compromise because the allocated time has not been reached?

[Sustainer]

I'd just like to add that the decline in the number of threads/posts is not the only issue. Even if the number of threads/posts increased, I still would not be happy about the existence of the show and tell forum, and I think I speak for many.

Is Spring really the earliest that the show and tell threads could be merged back into the main diapering forum?

[BCmamaof6]

Just adding my $.02...for the record...I also would like to see it return to the way that it was.

[Cynthia Mosher]

the thread count is significantly lower than it was *at the same time last year*, so your saying "things are slower now" doesn't really makes sense.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are not looking at the entire count over the year. The decline started much earlier - around December 04 or January 05 - and continued through the year. So blaming participation decline on the reorganization of the forum is not correct. Nor would it be correct to attribute an increase in November posting to the "where are all the hyenas" posts. I am not counting post numbers but rather number of new threads posted.

So are you essentially telling us it is a waste of time to even discuss this since you will not entertain the idea of compromise because the allocated time has not been reached?

You are more than welcome to discuss it as long as you can do so without making negative statements against the mods and admin or implying untoward intentions or goals on our part. We are members of this community as well and deserve the same respectful discussion and good assumption as any other member.

I do listen to input and take it into consideration when we review board issues and needs. As for a compromise, I am looking at a possible solution for those who prefer to see everything in one place. If I can work out the kinks then I'll certainly place that.

[Jilian]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher

I do listen to input and take it into consideration when we review board issues and needs. As for a compromise, I am looking at a possible solution for those who prefer to see everything in one place. If I can work out the kinks then I'll certainly place that.

Thanks for listening to us I also liked the board better how it was before. Maybe after the 3-6 month trial we could have a vote on whether or not it should go back? I do see reasons for seperating the board and I understand that it makes things more "uniform" but it's just not as fun as it used to be.

[Cynthia Mosher]

If the compromise works then we can all have what we want.

[Sustainer]

Could you give me a clearer idea of what the compromise might be? Are you considering something other than just returning things to the way they were?

[Cynthia Mosher]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

Could you give me a clearer idea of what the compromise might be? Are you considering something other than just returning things to the way they were?

Hmmm... your question gives me the feeling that only a return of the forum to the way it was would be satisfactory. Is that what you're feeling?

[Sustainer]

If you can give me some idea of what the compromise would be, I might be able to tell you how I feel about it. If it's closer to the way things were than the current arrangement, then it might be better than leaving things the way they are (if those are my only two choices).

[pamelamama]

I have to say this has me so confused. Is it because people were insulted about the reorganization that made them leave? Or was it because people are confused and dont know where to post? If you just put the show and tell link on your "links" or "favorites" and go right there, how is it really any different, except there are fewer basics questions to deal with?

Those newbie questions got shoved off the page so fast before, they were hard to address. What is the big fuss about giving the basic stuff room to breathe, while the fun, specific showy stuff can thrive in a separate folder? Does it feel lesser because it is separate? For me, I just jump straight to the forums I want to read using my favorites function. There is no value judgement implied by the separation, in my mind.

Over in the crafts forums it was nice when the yarn crafts got split off. I can go straight there and not have to read about stuff that doesn't pertain to me in the main craft forum. Not that I'm not welcome there. It's just easier to find stuff this way. It certainly wasn't an insult to the knitters, it was a plan to keep things running smoothly. Was it a perceived insult in diapering that got everyone upset? Feeling no longer welcome to post in the main diapering forum?

Dont mean to be argumentative or obtuse, you know I love the diapers and fun talk. I just dont get all the anger and I want to better understand where it is coming from.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by pamelamama

I have to say this has me so confused. Is it because people were insulted about the reorganization that made them leave? Or was it because people are confused and dont know where to post?

I would just like to have a single board where I can chat about cloth diapers. Everything from basic questions to stocking times. I don't want to have to go to a subforum to read or write about stockings and such.

If you just put the show and tell link on your "links" or "favorites" and go right there, how is it really any different, except there are fewer basics questions to deal with?

Showing and telling are not the only things I'm interested in. I'm interested in all kinds of things having to do with cloth diapers. I would like a board where everything is allowed to blend together seamlessly.

Those newbie questions got shoved off the page so fast before, they were hard to address.

There was no problem addressing the newbie questions. It was working fine. They did not get shoved off the page.

What is the big fuss about giving the basic stuff room to breathe, while the fun, specific showy stuff can thrive in a separate folder? Does it feel lesser because it is separate?

It doesn't thrive. The way it was before, everything thrived. Now nothing is thriving. (As I said before though, that's not my only concern.) The subforum is not "separate but equal." It doesn't just *feel* lesser. It's not just a perception. People come to the main diapering forum and many of them don't even know that the show and tell subforum is there. Even if it were separate but equal, I would still think that it should be integrated.

Over in the crafts forums it was nice when the yarn crafts got split off. I can go straight there and not have to read about stuff that doesn't pertain to me in the main craft forum. Not that I'm not welcome there. It's just easier to find stuff this way. It certainly wasn't an insult to the knitters, it was a plan to keep things running smoothly. Was it a perceived insult in diapering that got everyone upset? Feeling no longer welcome to post in the main diapering forum?

If most of the people in the crafts forum were happy with the yarn being separate, then that's fine. Most of the people in the diapering forum did not want stocking and showing threads to be segregated (and we made this clear), and yet it was done anyway. And again, the insulting aspect of it was not just a perception. Many of the people calling for the separation objected to us as consumerists and accused us of being non-NFL.

Dont mean to be argumentative or obtuse, you know I love the diapers and fun talk. I just dont get all the anger and I want to better understand where it is coming from.

It might help if you read some of the previous threads on the subject, like this one http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=337081

[Sustainer]

Another reason that the craft forum is not analogous is that sewing and knitting ARE two distinct subjects. Buying and showing pictures of diapers are not separate subjects from diapers/diapering. And people actually objected to the stocking and showing threads, rather than just finding them irrelevent or something.

[pamelamama]

To me it is analogous because you look to a different place for different information. To you it all seems like diapering info. But to a newbie, all the information in one spot can be quite a bit overwhelming. I know you believe all questions are answered and things are organized enough, but as a former diapering mod I cannot agree.

I'm the kind of person who has lots of subfolders on her computer, for storing information. That's just the kind of person I am. I like it like that.

Would you feel better if the main forum was diapering show and tell and the subforum was diapering 101?

[pamelamama]

(I tried to read that five page thread... I got the beginning and end covered, but I just can't wade through the whole thing. I guess I lack dedication. )

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by pamelamama

To me it is analogous because you look to a different place for different information.

The only thing I can see that really distinguishes stocking and showing information from all the other diaper information is that the stocking and showing threads tend to be more hyena-oriented, and that is one aspect that is really bothering a lot of us. Some people have gotten a holier-than-thou attitude about simple/frugal diapering, and have criticized hyenas. At one point even a diapering mod stated that the change was about hyena vs. simple (I believe it was later denied, and yet the post is still there for all to read).

Would you feel better if the main forum was diapering show and tell and the subforum was diapering 101?

I would feel better if the main forum was just Diapering Chat, for showing and telling and *all the other kinds of threads we regulars enjoy posting and reading,* and the subforum was Diapering 101, just for asking how to wash diapers or what a soaker is or whatever.

[pamelamama]

I know what you're talking about. I have seen the comments by people who feel uncomfortable about the consumeristic discussions we have about our diaper buying.

I dont think that my saying the change was not motivated by these people's complaints will convince you. But, I'll say it anyway!

But I do hear you that you believe it was a judgement, and that is what is making you and others feel great disappointment and distress.