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Would you get divorced over it? - Page 3

post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffer23
I agree with a lot of the others. An intact penis is important, but an intact family is far more important. I grew up with a very broken family and it's had lasting effects. DH grew up with a circumcised penis and couldn't care less about it (though he does agree that we won't circ. our sons). I think your son would be much more upset that you took away his chance for a father who is there with him all the time, than for the fact of getting him circumcised, especially, since in your husband's mind it's for a religious reason.

I think your situation is very hard. Maybe once you explain to your husband the negative effects of it, and that some children do die from it, although it's very very rare, that that terrifies you, and that you just cannot make yourself do it right now. Talk to him possibly about waiting until the child is older (by then would he forget about it, or lose interest in getting it done?), or some alternative.

I'll definitely keep your family in my prayers. Hopefully you and your husband can come to the right decision for your family together!
I would just like to point out here that being in an intact family where both parents constantly fight and appear to hate each other is also very very damaging. I grew up in such a family, with parents that constantly fought, with a mother who wouldn't leave (and I so wished she would), and it ended up with me having to leave home the day after I left school to get away from them (I had other issues with them as well as all the rows and fighting).

If you and your husband end up with the kind of poisoned marriage that my parents had, because of this, it will do neither of you, or your son, any good to stay together.

I'd also like to say that I don't believe that any court will give full custody of a newborn to the father, particularly if the mother is breastfeeding, unless she can be proven to be unfit, and I don't believe that this would be the case.
post #42 of 96
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post #43 of 96
I'm so sorry for the loss of your precious little girl. Many hugs to you.

Quote:
better that he have a broken home and be intact than have a broken home and be circ.
I agree totally, and I'm so glad you came to this decision. Divorce should never be taken lightly, but as Getz said, the needs of a child should come before the wants of its father.

Quote:
Circ is not a crime, not considered abuse legally
I feel that this sentence is missing two words and should read "circ is not a crime, not considered abuse legally in America. The rest of the world feels differently and many countries have classified it as legal abuse (RIC is illegal in Sweden).

Girl 138, my thoughts are with you. You've been through enough already - I'm upset that your husband would threaten to divorce if you don't comply with his demands. He should be supporting you after your terrible loss - not making you feel worse.
post #44 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk
I'd also like to say that I don't believe that any court will give full custody of a newborn to the father, particularly if the mother is breastfeeding, unless she can be proven to be unfit, and I don't believe that this would be the case.
yep- here in GA I believe mom gets automatic full custody of any child under 4 unless there are some serious grounds for her being unfit.

I really hope you don't have to go through a divorce after all you've been through...I hope he can calm down enough and stop putting his foot down long enough to listen to fact and reason. He is showing you no respect by being so unwilling to consider your views and very valid emotions about the risk to your son.

But if it does come to a divorce- if it were me I would get divorced before the baby was born, not put him on the birth certificate, move somewhere he couldn't find me, and that would be it.
post #45 of 96
First, so so sorry about the loss of your Jordanna. I understand your concern about your new son, I had the same for mine. ***hugs***

You have a lot of time to work on your DH.
I think the first thing you need to do is stop looking at the big picture. If he is the one bringing up the divorce issue, you need to say, "Are you going to divorce me for talking with you about circ?" Even if he says yes, he's not going to. (If he says yes, you can always ask him to draw up the papers and when he declines, you can discuss it anyways.)

Then you have to hit him with every bit of information you have. I would start with the cases where children have died during circ and go from there.

Good luck... when he has specific concerns you can post them here. I was where you were just a few months ago so I feel your pain.

I do believe that an intact family is more important than the circumcision issue, but a fighting family is also bad, and a guilty resentful mom==as many here will tell you they were after being convinced to circ is not going to be the best mom either.

But don't think about that yet. Think about divorce if you're going into labor and the issue isn't resolved yet. Look at the little pictures for now.
post #46 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffer23
I think your son would be much more upset that you took away his chance for a father who is there with him all the time, than for the fact of getting him circumcised
Why is this framed as the mama "taking away" the father, rather than the father taking himself away? Especially since the OP says it is her husband who threatened her, not the other way around. She's just thinking about whether to allow him to make good on his threat, or cave and get her son circed.
post #47 of 96
ITA, thismama.

Also, I didn't answer the question. Would I get divorced over it? Yes.
post #48 of 96
Big hugs to you mama. I hope your dh is just trying to scare you into agreeing to circ and wouldn't leave you over it.

My dh and I are both Jewish, and were both raised in fairly observant Jewish homes - his more observant than mine. When I found out I was having a boy, I knew we had a tough road ahead. He was dead-set, 100% certain we were going to have a bris. I was just as sure we wouldn't.

We talked and talked and screamed and threatened and flipped out for months. It was completely unproductive. So, I gave him a lot of literature and asked him to read it. I gave him the Mothering circ issue, the AAP statement, NOCIRC, Jews Against Circumcision, Ron Goldman's book, everything I could find. And more importantly, I told him I would read and consider all credible information he could find supporting circumcision.

I don't know how much he read (I know he read some of it, and I know he called our pediatrician and spoke to him) but I do know he came up to me and said he couldn't find anything to support his cause. He admitted that the main reason he wanted to circ was because his parents would be hysterical, and he was embarassed to admit he wasn't going to get his own way.

So, at least we had something to talk about - his real feelings. We spoke to two rabbi's, and they assured us my son would be Jewish. And I told my husband that all I wanted to do was leave my son's option's open to him. If he ever wants to be circumcised for religious or any other reason, he will have my blessing. But it's his choice. Not mine, not dh's, not dh's mother. That's it. Plain and simple.

He was embarassed, and his parents were beyond hysterical. So were mine. So were much of the Jewish community we're involved in. I don't care. He's my son - I carried him for 9 months, breastfed him exclusively, carried him everywhere, and protect him in all ways. There's nothing that will convince me that a protective loving parent (but especially a mom) will allow her child to be circumcised as an infant who can't defend themselves.

Society and Judaism are beginning to question circumcision. Tell your dh you are leaving your son perfect - the way G-d made him - until he's old enough to make an informed decision. If he's truly going to leave you and your son because of that, I'd have to say it doesn't sound like a huge loss. I'm not saying that flippantly or lightly. I can't begin to understand a man who feels that way.

I am so sorry for your previous loss. I can't being to imagine the pain you and your family has been through. And now, what's supposed to be a joyous time is a mess. You don't deserve.

Tell your dh you want him to stand up and defend you and your son - it's one of the reasons you married him. You won't ever be sorry you left your son intact. You may regret circumcision forever.

Good luck! Keep us informed!
post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by girl138
I just feel like i need to clarify something. I would not threaten or want to get a divorce - ever. It's just that when I try to discuss my opposition to this with my husband he threatens me that it will be the end of our marriage if i don't fold.

honestly, i don't care anymore. i am not willing to risk the health of this baby for anything. i can't bring myself to do that no matter what the cost, not after losing my Jordana.
OMG, Jenna, that is an outrageous amount of pressure to put on a pregnant woman who just lost her precious baby girl. That threat, in and of itself, says a lot. I wish I had the money to buy you a month long vacation somewhere so you could just get away by yourself to think without this sort of emotional torture.
post #50 of 96
Jenna :

Zaftigmama's post is so good. I hope it can help you.
I'm so sorry about Jordana.
post #51 of 96
Jenna,



I read Jordana's webpage. I am so sorry about the loss of your little girl. Such a sad, sad story.

best,
~Nay
post #52 of 96
Since I veiw circ as abuse. If he read everything I have and listened to my wishes but then insisted on circing then yes I would leave him. Since there is no way I could stay with a man who insistes upon abusing a helpless baby.
post #53 of 96
I just wanted to give the OP (((Hugs))) and to let her know that I did try to post a comment to her blog wishing her peace and healing, as well as providing my own insights and TONS of pro-intact religion-specific links. It never made it through moderation, I'm not sure why.

If anyone wants that list of links, feel free to PM. :-)

Jen
post #54 of 96
Hugs to the OP. Your life has not been easy lately, I can tell.


Personally, I was not willing to have my son circed "over my dead body". It didn't come to that, thank goodness. After my dh read the stuff the Bradley teacher gave him, he came my way fast. I am so grateful. But yes, I think divorce would have been an option.
post #55 of 96
to the OP.

I just have to say I'm SHOCKED that here of all places there are so many people who would allow their child to be maimed and mutilated to keep another adult happy. If I was married to that selfish and barbaric of a man I would be glad to know that now and dump him so fast his head would spin.

-Angela
post #56 of 96
You know, I hate to think that the OP's DH would truly divorce her if his son was left intact. It seems to me that this might have been something he said in the heat of the moment, and either they haven't talked about it enough for him to retract the statement, or he feels like he's boxed in a corner and cannot back down without "losing face". I don't know anything about the man, but I want to try to give him the benefit of the doubt.

After what your family has been through, I want to see some peace and harmony in the household! Surely your DH can see that you need that.

Let's give him a chance to read the links, and see what he has to say.
post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby


As soon as my dh violated our son our family would no longer be intact anyway . My marriage would be over wether I physically left or not.

Yup. Exactly.
post #58 of 96
I don't know whether I'll divorce DH or not.

I'd think about after I am done charging with all my might, Post Partum or not at ANYBODY who approaches my healthy newborn with a knife and intention of cutting him.

Don't care if that buchering is given a PC (Politically Correct) name
post #59 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
As soon as my dh violated our son our family would no longer be intact anyway . My marriage would be over wether I physically left or not.
ITA.

For the record, I believe still in some states you can't get a divorce if you're pregnant, you have to wait until after the baby is born. ACLU is fighting this law, but it is still in effect in many states.

And yes, I would *let my husband leave* over circumcision, I would never initiate a divorce simply because it'd make me look bad when it came to custody fights, but I'd sure as hell hold the door open for him while he left!
post #60 of 96
Your dh isn't wiling to talk about it because he knows he won't be heard so why bother. You are not even remotely intrested in listening to what his reasons for wanting to circ are because it isn't going to happen regardless of how important it is to him or why. And you are so stuck on "this is never going to happen" that you don't even care how he feels about it. You don't want to talk to him you want to convince him. Understandable? absolutely. conducive to positive communication? no way. Likely to cause a pattern of behavior even if you get your way? absolutely. And it is likely to crop up all over the place any time you disagree about parenting. What a mess. This is definitely something you guys need to seek outside profesional help over. Beyond circumcission you guys need to address the poor communication issues. Either way one of you are going to lose on this and the one who loses needs to learn how to grieve thier loss in ah ealthy unresentful way and the other person needs to learn how to respect why it was important to them and actually hear the losers pain and be compassionate towards that loss even if they can't agree on what was best.
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