comeback for the free rider accusation

[wednesday]

You know how when people say the only reason it's safe to not vax is because everyone else already does. That's not my reason for not vaxing, but most people can't fathom not actually being afraid of the illnesses.

Anyway...I was thinking today about the issue of how chicken pox vaccine has had the inadvertent effect of increasing incidence of shingles (mercola summarizes this problem well) and it occurred to me that this issue presents a counter-argument to the "selfish non-vaxer" accusation.

With most of the so-called vaccine-preventable diseases, the more others are vaxed, the less risk there is to a non-vaxed individual. Except for chicken pox. Those who are vaxed (and don't suffer a "breakthrough" infection of CP) face no risk of shingles. But those who are not vaxed, and end up acquiring natural chicken pox, face a highly increased likelihood of experiencing shingles in adulthood.

Vaccine researchers in the UK published an article in the journal Vaccine in 2002 in which they stated, "Mass varicella vaccination is expected to cause a major epidemic of [shingles], affecting more than 50% of those aged 10-44 years at the introduction of vaccination." That is, anyone who was between the ages of 10-44 in 1995 can look forward to even odds they will have shingles later in life--a condition which is very painful, and can be chronic and life-threatening.

I still think my son is better off not being vaxed, but this presents a new twist to the assumption that non-vaxers are simply taking advantage of everyone else vaxing. Just thought I'd share.

[shelbean91]

From my understanding, shingles is a reactivation of the chickenpox virus. So, whether someone gets the disease naturally or gets the vax, they have the chance of shingles later. The only way to never get shingles is to NEVER be exposed to, or get, the chicken pox virus.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

In the pedtalk archives for August, they talk about a lot of adolescents with shingles

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

If you locate the posts by date, they start on August 14th,... well, the ones I'm reading do.. there will be others as well, becuase three years ago, there was considerable discussion on pedtalk about children with shingles following the chickenpox vaccine.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

The someone posted an article that said shingles was less after the chickenpox vaccine s

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

The someone posted an article that said shingles was less after the chickenpox vaccine s

Well, yeah...if you keep getting the vax over and over again for the rest of your life.
It's kind of confusing, but I think it goes like this:
With the CP virus circulating wildly...at the grocery store, the park, the gas station, etc, all the infected little kids continuously booster the immunity of the adults. That way, when you get down in the dumps and the CP virus tries to re-emerge as shingles, your immune system remembers exactly how to deal with it.
But in the post vax world where there is no circulating CP virus, if you haven't had your vax booster recently enough and the opportunity arises for the virus to creep back out, you get a full blown case of shingles, coz your immune system has totally forgotten what it is.

[~Shanna~]

I've just started to research the Vax issue in anticipation of having a first baby : I'm trying to have some of this figured out in time!
The chicken pox vaccine is the only one that's giving me trouble with the idea of not vaxing, for the reasons you've said. Are there any ways that people have of ensuring that their kids come down with CP naturally before they're old enough to warrant concerns about severe complications? I have visions of a secret bank of infected blankets, circulating by mail......
Right now I'm thinking that if I didn't vax for CP, I'd want to if DS/D didn't come down with it by X age. Any thoughts? I posted this before doing a search on previous threads, and I'll do that now.

[pdxmomazon]

My mom and her friends has a "chicken pox party" when we were younger to infect all the kids at the same time. I hope to do that same with our daughter!

erin

edited because i have a very hard time typing the instead of teh.

[aira]

I can't imagine that the CP vax is going to make the wild virus just disappear. Mutate, I can see - but vanish? Nah.

[LeosMama]

I'm hoping to hear a response the original question, about those who vax accusing those who don't of being safe b/c the rest of children are. any comebacks for this?

[Plummeting]

Somebody said that to me just about 3 or 4 days ago. She said, "As long as most of the population is vaccinated, as in America, then herd immunity will protect your child. Therefore, you are reaping the benefits of vaccination." My response? "Only if you actually consider it a benefit, which I don't. I don't consider the total elimination of all acute childhood illnesses a benefit, when part of the trade off seems to be an increase in chronic illnesses such as allergies, asthma and autoimmune disorders. I would *like* for my daughter to catch a few childhood diseases while she's still a child. Therefore, IMO, I would say I'm reaping the misfortune of vaccination, despite my best efforts not to."

Of course, this was in an email conversation, so I had time to think about my reply. On a message board or in real life conversation, I doubt I'd be able to give a good answer. I think I'm filing this one away for later though.

[stayathomecristi]

Plummeting--I LOVE your answer. Consider it plageurized

In actuality I have been actively looking for CP for a while now. It's getting harder to find--even the vax-initiated kind (mainly cuz people don't think it could possibly be CP if they just vaxxed their kid, so by the time I hear about it it's too late). Actually, I've exposed dd twice so far, but no symptoms. Maybe she is already immune :-)