Warriors for Christ? - Page 2

[Leilalu]

Well, unless you are a Christian it is kind of hard to understand. There are many references in the New Testament referring to christians as soldiers or the like.Why don't you look it up?There is a spiritual battle, whether we choose to beleive so or not, according to the Bible.

It is certainly NOT meant as a reference to the war, or Bush, or just americans in general.

[Jen123]

yeah that....it had me confused til I looked it up.

I knew it wasn't a reference to the War or Shrub or even Americans....because most of the Christians I know irl are pretty upset about the war , and the over all "job" that Shrub has been doing.

[Shiloh]

I just figure there one of those annoying people who hand out tracts and go door to door trying to push there beliefs on people.

ah you must be canadian its election time here...


or them girl guide cookie pushers, here you need sugar..

I personally don't get the warriors for christ except that it is an oxymoron, and in its polar meaning draws attention to the fact Jesus was a peace activist... So warring for peace...? I think if Jesus thought being a warrior was a suitable imagry he might have picked up a sword not an olive branch.

[Penelope]

Originally Posted by AutumnMama

I've heard the phrase all my life (growing up in a christian home), it's a spiritual warfare thing, and it was coined long before GWB was in office.

I grew up in a non-evangelical Christian home and this phrase gets much less play in my tradition. Just FWIW.

I didn't, however, suggest that it was coined to suit Bush; I'm saying that I think that one use to which this concept is put by evangelicals who also have a Bush-friendly political agenda is to connect Christianity and the war in Iraq. I think "warrior" is a more modern version than "soldier," but the idea is ancient.

To Leilau - the idea that there "is a spiritual battle" going on is one very specific reading of the NT texts. It's not a given for every Christian.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by FreeThinkinMama

hmm not really. have you read revelation?

Yes, but the idea conveyed by the phrase "Warriors for Christ" is that they're warriors for Christ...not John the Divine.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Leilalu

Well, unless you are a Christian it is kind of hard to understand. There are many references in the New Testament referring to christians as soldiers or the like.Why don't you look it up?There is a spiritual battle, whether we choose to beleive so or not, according to the Bible.

It is certainly NOT meant as a reference to the war, or Bush, or just americans in general.

I confess my ignorance here, but maybe you can help me. Where does Jesus (not Paul, not John the Divine, not any commentator, but Jesus) say that Christians are soldiers?

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Shiloh

I personally don't get the warriors for christ except that it is an oxymoron, and in its polar meaning draws attention to the fact Jesus was a peace activist... So warring for peace...?

To quote an oft-quoted idea that I think was already mentioned, isn't warring for peace like f***ing for virginity? Aborting for adoption? Hating for love?

I think if Jesus thought being a warrior was a suitable imagry he might have picked up a sword not an olive branch.

That's kind've my impression, but again, I don't claim to know all there is to know about the Bible.

[Viola]

I have nothing useful to add to this thread (not so different from my contributions in most threads, come to think of it) so I'm just going to sing!

Ahem. La La La

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
forward into battle see his banners go!
(Refrain)

At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.
(Refrain)

3 more verses, eh, nevermind. My fingers are tired.

[charmarty]

Originally Posted by Viola

I have nothing useful to add to this thread (not so different from my contributions in most threads, come to think of it) so I'm just going to sing!

that's not true you silly!

[Viola]

Hiya, Charmarty!!!

Many threads make me want to break out into song, but this one especially so. It's a catchy little tune.

[FreeThinkinMama]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Yes, but the idea conveyed by the phrase "Warriors for Christ" is that they're warriors for Christ...not John the Divine.

I was referring to these where Jesus threatens to kill and make war and other violent passages. Yes, he was known for his pacifist views but those are contradicted by these. So warriors for christ isn't really an oxymoron, in fact passages like these have been taken literally and used to kill and torture millions of people who wouldn't convert to christianity:

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev 19:12-15 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

[pfamilygal]

The Bible talks about spiritual warfare multiple times. It also talks about putting on the full armor of God. That's probably what they are talking about. I went to a religious college that didn't have Greek life. We had "wings" instead. The girls wings had names like Virtue, Unity, Chosen, etc. The boys wings all had Christian names like Full Armor, Shekinah, etc. I think sometimes we think Christianity is wimpy (ie, all the pics of Jesus looking all gentle with pretty hair). We forget He tore up the Temple in a fit of wrath at seeing His Father's house used as a market. I know many men identify with the strong aspect of Christianity. Of course, for my dh being a "warrior for Christ" means prayer, servant leadership and self-sacrifice. I don't think it mean literally beating folks up or anything.

[pfamilygal]

Originally Posted by Penelope

To Leilau - the idea that there "is a spiritual battle" going on is one very specific reading of the NT texts. It's not a given for every Christian.

There are many references to spiritual warfare in the NT. If you chose to ignore them, that's fine, but they are definitely there.

II Corinthians 10:3-5 "For though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war, 4 for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ"

II Timothy 2:3-4 "Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him."

Ephesians 6:10-13 "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Matthew 10:34 (Jesus is speaking) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

[twindaze]

My understanding is that there is a continual battle between good and evil and that that is what the phrase is referring to. It doesn't mean that we should go fight people who aren't Christians. I'm Catholic, if that means anything btw. It could also refer to a personal battle against the urge to sin, at least it means that for ME.

[pfamilygal]

That's why it is called a spiritual battle. Because the weapons of our warfare are not flesh: they are prayer, love, truth, etc. I don't think we are being instructed to kill folks. The Bible repeatedly refers to non-Christians as being "blind" or "held captive" by the devil. Our weapons, in my understanding, are to be used to loose people from those bonds or that blindness. Does that make any sense?

[Penelope]

[QUOTE=pfamilygal]There are many references to spiritual warfare in the NT. If you chose to ignore them, that's fine, but they are definitely there.

[QUOTE]

I get that.

I'm saying not every Christian thinks there's an ongoing battle between good and evil, or understands herself or himself to be a warrior or soldier for Christ. That's one reading of the text, but by no means the only one. Or even the best one, IMO.

Freethinkingmama, Revelation wasn't written by Jesus. None of the bible was, although the gospels in particular contain stories about Jesus, some of which are historical in origin. Barbara Rossing has a great and very readable book on Revelation called "The Rapture Exposed" if you want a non-Tim LaHaye reading of the text. Not that you're necessarily drawing on the Left Behind series ( ) but some people do.

[DaryLLL]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I guess that the phrase "warriors for Christ" seems really confusing to me given Christ's very, very clear stance on nonviolence, even to the point of nonresistance to a violent act.

Jesus told his apostles to sell their cloaks for swords.

Luke 22- And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one... And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough."

Keep in mind this was on the eve of his arrest. 2 swords was enough for that night. And they did not have enough time to go get more. Interesting 2 of J's followers were named after violent rebel Jewish groups: the Sicarii and the Zealots. A sicari was a short sword used for stealth assassinations in crowds.

Other times Jesus is made to say things like turn the other cheek and blessed are the meek. Gotta love those Bible contradictions!

And because it was potentially offensive / critical, I didn't put it in Spirituality -- it seemed to violate the UA.

That is why we have Religious Studies. Mods?

[spero]

Originally Posted by DaryLLL

That is why we have Religious Studies. Mods?

: For once, we agree!

[ChasingPeace]

Maybe it means spiritual warrior in the same way as "jihad" in Islam (the true meaning of it, not the perversion of it used by pseudo-Islamic militants)--a struggle with the self.

I'm just guessing, since my only familiarity with the term is from this:
http://media.putfile.com/Lady-Goes-C...rading-Spouses

[FreeThinkinMama]

"Freethinkingmama, Revelation wasn't written by Jesus. None of the bible was,"

Well according to the bible jesus said those things. If you're a christian then you believe the bible was inspired by god and that it is the truth. My point was that the bible has plenty of violent passages that contradict all the lovey dovey ones. So warriors for christ is not an oxymoron at all. Plenty of violence and hatred has been spread because of the bible and christianity (i.e. the crusades, the salem witch burnings). Doesn't really matter to me who wrote it, IMO most of it is fiction.