Circumcision repair for my 16 month old son next Wednesday. - Page 2

[LadyMarmalade]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Is there any possibility the hole can be fixed with a skin graft? I don't know if grafted skin is flexible enough for erections later in life, but I would urge you to investigate it, just in case.

[InDaPhunk]

Originally Posted by thundersweet

Dh says it will affect the way he feels about his body later. He will hide it and be embarrased. My mom, a nurse, told me she thinks it needs to be done. She has seen many of both uncircumcised and circumcised and says he looks like neither. Her opinion was to spare him the embarrasment later and get it taken care of with clear instruction to the doc about removing too much skin. I just don't know. I have some thinking to do. I wish I could show a picture but that would be wrong.

Ok, so DH has weighed in, mom has weighed in, the money grubbing surgeon has weighed in, what does your son think should be done with his penis? Oh wait, he can't speak for himself so basically all these people are mucking around with his penis, talking about cutting even more of it off bc it offends them, because in their esteemed opinions- which let's face it, hasn't done his penis much good up to this point- it will bother him when he's older. Where's my crystal ball, I wanna be able to see into the future, too!

Let me see, how shall I put this? Hmmmmm....

LEAVE HIS FREAKING PENIS ALONE

Unless it's medically necessary don't cut any MORE pieces of of it, for cripes sake, and tell your DH to piss off if he doesn't like it. I mean, my god, what's the goal here ? To cut the whole thing off? He only has so much penis he can part with before he has none left.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but learn from your mistakes already....and go forth and tell everyone you meet what happened to your son and how horrible RIC is.

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by thundersweet

I dont know what to do now. He is not being re-circumcised. The urologist is going to remove some of the loose skin that hangs and along with that the hole would go. The hole itself is getting bigger. It started out the size of maybe a stud earing and is now bigger than a pencil eraser. Bigger and more oval shaped. The skin hangs and droops. He doesn't look like he was left intact or circumcised. It just looks strange. Dh says it will affect the way he feels about his body later. He will hide it and be embarrased. My mom, a nurse, told me she thinks it needs to be done. She has seen many of both uncircumcised and circumcised and says he looks like neither. Her opinion was to spare him the embarrasment later and get it taken care of with clear instruction to the doc about removing too much skin. I just don't know. I have some thinking to do. I wish I could show a picture but that would be wrong.

Ok, I know you are feeling badly about this, so just remember I'm saying this very gently--this operation WOULD BE re-circumcising him. "Removing some of the loose skin that hangs" is removing more foreskin--just making a tighter circumcision. The hole would be removed with this extra skin being cut, but at what cost? This could cause all sorts of problems. Painful erections, hair on the shaft of his penis from the skin being stretched too tight...just a host of issues that he won't have if you just leave him be.
No one can tell you how he'll feel about his body later. If you just leave it, and in 10-15-20 years from now he IS bothered by it, he can absolutely opt for the surgery! No problem! But he can never, ever, ever get it back if it's taken away from him. One of the many, many problems with circumcision is that a dr can't tell how much skin is "too much". You don't know how a penis will grow, or how much skin is too much. It's all guess work. ALL of it. From the very first cut, it's guesswork. I have been with men who have had a tight circumcision. I won't go into detail, but it's not something I would wish on any man--or their sexual partner. Please please please, just leave your baby alone for now. You can ALWAYS revisit this when he is older, and when he has a say.

And I have to add one more thing. It does not matter to anyone--not your dh, not your mother, not you, not ANYONE--if your son's penis looks "strange". What are they going to do, frame it and hang it in the dining room?? It's not theirs (or yours) to make "look pretty". It matters ONLY to him, and his future sexual partners. It's not a mantle decoration, it doesn't matter if it's not asthetically pleasing to anyone BUT him.

[Guest*]

Originally Posted by InDaPhunk

Ok, so DH has weighed in, mom has weighed in, the money grubbing surgeon has weighed in, what does your son think should be done with his penis? Oh wait, he can't speak for himself so basically all these people are mucking around with his penis, talking about cutting even more of it off bc it offends them, because in their esteemed opinions- which let's face it, hasn't done his penis much good up to this point- it will bother him when he's older. Where's my crystal ball, I wanna be able to see into the future, too!

Let me see, how shall I put this? Hmmmmm....

LEAVE HIS FREAKING PENIS ALONE

I totally agree! Thundersweet, this post is harsh-sounding, but every word is truthful. Please read it again and take it to heart.

And I'm so, so sorry that you and your son are in this situation. I can't imagine the thoughts and emotions I'd have. You WILL get through this, though. Stay strong.

[Quirky]

to you, mama. Sounds like you're getting a lot of pressure from the people around you - your dh, your mom, your doctor, etc. - but I agree with the previous posters, unless there's a MEDICAL reason for the surgery, it should wait until your son is older.

If he's fully grown, there will be no question about his penis size and how much skin he needs to accomodate a full erection. My understanding of the way that doctors do adult circs is that they have the man achieve an erection and then mark the skin to be cut with a marker. Obviously in a baby you're not going to know how much skin to take off.

My ds was born in 1967 and evidently very tight circs were in style at his hospital. It has caused curvature and can be very uncomfortable for him when he's aroused. IMO you just do not want to run the risk of making things worse.

As far as the teasing issue - really, I don't think it will be an issue. The whole "locker room" thing is way overblown. As long as no one in your family makes your son feel ashamed or inferior, he will grow up with healthy self-esteem. You can teach him to value himself no matter if he has differences from the other kids - whether he wears glasses, his ears stick out, he has freckles, or a different-looking penis, there's always something to tease about. The way to deal with bullying is to love your child and support him, not perform cosmetic surgery on him.

[thundersweet]

The surgery was approved. I still do not know what I am going to do. I rescheduled it until mid January. I do think some of you are being very harsh. The nurse read me what was in the report. It basically says he has redundant forskin with a large hole on the right side. I spoke with her about my problem with all of this. She did say that most of their patients are 14-16 years old. They also do alot of circumcision on intact boys who make the decision to have it done. But for the most part its removing the redundant skin. Basically like my son I guess.

For now, I will wait and do a little more reading. My sons penis looks like a mushroom. That the closest I can describe it. It does not just come down neatly. Its just all at the end bunched up and open. Like a mushroom top.

[InDaPhunk]

BTW, wtf is the dr doing showing his nurse your kid's penis? Why would he even ask you that? What business is it of hers? Is she in medical school and currently studying Male Genitalia and the Things We Amputate From Them? Was it just fun for him to say "Check out how f u this kid's penis is! I hope people keep circing so that I can make enough for the Porche I've been wanting. Re-circs are where it's at, baby".

You're son's penis will probably look far more normal when he gets older than you think. All penises look different anyway, circed or intact. How it feels to him, that's what's important. And more tissue means more feeling.


edit: for misspelling of 'genitalia',

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by thundersweet

The surgery was approved. I still do not know what I am going to do. I rescheduled it until mid January. I do think some of you are being very harsh. The nurse read me what was in the report. It basically says he has redundant forskin with a large hole on the right side. I spoke with her about my problem with all of this. She did say that most of their patients are 14-16 years old. They also do alot of circumcision on intact boys who make the decision to have it done. But for the most part its removing the redundant skin. Basically like my son I guess.

For now, I will wait and do a little more reading. My sons penis looks like a mushroom. That the closest I can describe it. It does not just come down neatly. Its just all at the end bunched up and open. Like a mushroom top.

If you are worried about what your son's penis looks like now, please go here:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
and take a look around at some "neat circumcisions". All to make it look "neat" and "not strange".

And "redundant foreskin" makes no sense at all. The foreskin is not "redundant", as there is no other organ that does what the foreskin does.

I'm sorry that some of this is coming across as harsh. But someone with a scalpel already screwed up when futzing around with your sons penis, why on earth would you let someone ELSE near it?

[InDaPhunk]

Originally Posted by thundersweet

...redundant forskin...(

What is that?

[Kirsten]

Terrible situation. I agree that you now have a second chance to make a better decision. You can't go back to before it was done, but you can choose to not make it any worse now.

I understand you that the hole is getting bigger. Does it seem to cause him any discomfort? Is it hard to clean? Given that it is getting bigger, I would probably consider fixing it also. I just wouldn't cut more off just to get rid of the hole. I agree with the other posters who said why not cut from the hole to the end of the foreskin, then sew it up?

I am glad that you posted. Hopefully you will get support (even those who are being blunt really are trying to get you to do the best you can with the current situation) and you will also be an example to other moms who may come here trying to make the circ decision - that problems really do occur and you can get yourself into more complications and issues by choosing circ.

I really wouldn't let the doctors cut more of his foreskin off.

[eightyferrettoes]

"removing redundant foreskin" IS a circumcision. I think it's wise to call a spade a spade right now.

Is it possible to sue the original circumciser for malpractice? How awful!

I'm sorry you guys are going through this... it cannot be easy to see your way to a good decision from a bad situation. But I completely agree. It isn't wise to surgically muck around with a baby. You have no idea what his penis will be like when he grows up, or how he will feel about it.

If he has it done as a teen, or an adult, he can interview docs, choose a style of circumcision that he likes best... or he can choose to enjoy what foreskin he has remaining. He may even be able to find a doc who can help him actually repair the foreskin, instead of calling a re-circumcision a "repair."

Hugs, mama.

[mamacarla]

Get a lawyer and sue the doctor that burned a hole in your sons' penis!

Unless there is a valid, emergent, medical reason to re-circumcise your son right now, please leave him alone. Two wrongs do not make a right.

I understand that this is hard to hear but we are not born with redundant parts that should be cut off at will by our parents. That phrase "redundant skin" really pisses me off.

Thank you for being brave enough to post here - we can be a tough crowd but it is only because we care so much.

Carla

[LavenderMae]

THundersweet, there is no such thing as redundant foreskin (the term is pretty offensive also). Foreskin comes in all different lenghts, none being redundant. The fact that someone would call it that shows they know little about foreskin and are biased against it. I would try really hard to find somoene who doesn't think any foreskin is redundant and is educated about keeping foreskin NOT getting rid of it.

I'd research this extensively before I decided to re-circumcise my child.

[pdx.mothernurture]

The foreskin isn't extra; it comes standard. There is no such thing as a "redundant foreskin". He already has significantly less than he was designed by nature/god to have. The fact that he has a looser circumcision doesn't mean it was botched. They left him some skin to grow into, so he won't have painful tight erections that split and bleed or shaft skin so tight it pulls his testical skin and/or pubic hair up onto it. He's already lost nerves and blood vessels...cutting off more just means more loss. Have you seen the Lost List? http://www.norm.org/lost.html.

You might also want to check out NOHARMM's "Know Your Rights" ( http://www.noharmm.org/knowrights.htm ) and the website for Attorney's for the Rights of the Child: http://www.arclaw.org/

What was the consent form you signed like? Did it mention burning a hole through the remaining skin as a risk? If not, you probably have grounds to sue.

Jen

[InDaPhunk]

Originally Posted by thundersweet

My sons penis looks like a mushroom. That the closest I can describe it. It does not just come down neatly. Its just all at the end bunched up and open. Like a mushroom top.

Think very, very carefully about what you are saying. You are wanting to alter your son's penis bc you find it cosmetically unappealing. That's most likely why you circumcised him to begin with and that didn't work out so well. So think very hard about your preconceived notions of what a penis should look like and if you should alter your child's body without his permission again because you are having trouble with it's appearance. Imagine explaining this whole situation to him in the future. Would you rather say "We wrongly had you circed then left it alone so that you could be in controil of your own body. We learned from our mistakes." or would you rather tell him "We had you circed bc that's what we thought was right. It turned out badly so we let them do it again and hoped that it wouldn't make things even worse."

Your statement:
"They also do alot of circumcision on intact boys who make the decision to have it done."

Notice that you wrote that the boys make the decision when they are old enough to do so, the parents didn't make it for them. Make sure you also note that the drs and nurses have a huge financial stake in telling you that many intact boys want to be circed...that's their bread and butter.

I truly understand that you feel terrible about the situation and that you think your son's penis looks totally weird and odd but please really think about whether two wrongs make a right and think about what terrible things might happen if you let them cut on him again. Please please please do a lot of research first before making any irreversable decisions. That's great that you have postponed the surgery. You can do that indefinitely.

[Minky]

I'm going to go against most of you here. If the hole is getting bigger, I see it as an injury that must be repaired.

I don't see why the hole can't be stitched up like you would do anywhere else on the body.

But I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying leave the hole alone. It is a hole. It needs to be repaired. Would you want to have a hole in your anatomy and find out that it's there and growing because your mom wanted to let you make a decision about it?

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by Minky

I'm going to go against most of you here. If the hole is getting bigger, I see it as an injury that must be repaired.

I don't see why the hole can't be stitched up like you would do anywhere else on the body.

But I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying leave the hole alone. It is a hole. It needs to be repaired. Would you want to have a hole in your anatomy and find out that it's there and growing because your mom wanted to let you make a decision about it?

If the hole was in or around my clitoris, yes. I'd rather have a functioning but strange looking one than none at all.

[eightyferrettoes]

Originally Posted by Minky

But I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying leave the hole alone. It is a hole. It needs to be repaired. Would you want to have a hole in your anatomy and find out that it's there and growing because your mom wanted to let you make a decision about it?

Better than I'd feel if she had more of my genitals cut off so my dad and the original circumciser could pretend it never happened.

At a point where the kid is going to be concerned about the cosmetic appearance of his penis, he is old enough to make some informed decisions about what to do with it.

But *right now* the only two options this mama has is a) Cut more of the foreskin off and b) leave it alone.

Because foreskin has intrinsic value of its own, option a needs to go right out the window. Leaving it alone leaves the mama time to get her ducks in a row to protect her baby.

The docs are lying to her, and Georgia isn't precisely the most enlightened state in the union regarding foreskins. She needs to leave it alone so the baby can finish growing into his skin, and have an opinion on how to manage the issue.

ETA: And she needs to sue the doctor!Frivolous lawsuits irk me as much as the next person, but there is nothing frivolous about this. She could put that money in trust for the kid's possible future surgery, if it'd make her feel any better.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by Minky

I'm going to go against most of you here. If the hole is getting bigger, I see it as an injury that must be repaired.

I don't see why the hole can't be stitched up like you would do anywhere else on the body.

But I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying leave the hole alone. It is a hole. It needs to be repaired. Would you want to have a hole in your anatomy and find out that it's there and growing because your mom wanted to let you make a decision about it?

But why? Why does the hole need to be repaired? There needs to be a medical reason to subject the baby to the risk of further surgery - especially surgery that may remove skin that baby will NEED as a man in order to have comfortable and pleasurable sex. This "redundant foreskin" thing scares me - and this medical practice sounds like it is NOT foreskin-friendly, or they would not be circing BOYS who are not happy with their intact status. Grown men can make an informed decision, BOYS cannot. Circing boys is about as ethical as giving 11-year old girls boob jobs.

I think it's great that you postponed the surgery. I would try to find a foreskin-friendly urologist to give you a second opinion. Maybe Dr. Paul Fleiss would be a good resource, too - you could call him for a free phone consult. I can find his number for you if you'd like.

[acrathbun]

I'm going to go against most of you here. If the hole is getting bigger, I see it as an injury that must be repaired.

It's not a gaping oozing hole that is exposing layers of skin/tissue and becoming an infection risk. It probably started out as a hole similar to an ear piercing, maybe slightly bigger and has stretched out to now be 5 or 6 millimeters. Baby skin is really stretchy, it happens. There is no way to know now what he will look like as a teenager/adult.

Why not let him choose? If this was on his face, hands, etc. where someone would see it everyday & *potentially* comment on it, that's one thing. But on his penis? Let him decide.