My Midwife Is Under Investigation - Page 2

[graciesma]

I am only speaking for my self but If a person has not been through extensive training to do medical procedures and/or is not certified they will be going nowhere near my crotch or my my child. I have had 3 children all in hospitals. two surrogate and then my own beutiful baby. All were wonderful experiences it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission. None of the children I have birthed have ever had anything done to them ?i did not agree too including shots and vit k. I strongly feel like the medical community is always getting bashed on this site. These doctors and nurses do thier job because they care. In my opinion small minded as it may be doctors are proffesionals and when it comes to something likr bringing a precious life into the world Im just not willing to take the risk of a hgome birth. then again two babes were technicaly not mine. In any event I am sending my thoughts and PRAYERS to the family and truly hope it was gods will and not lack of intervention.

[UmmBnB]

I couldn't read the whole article, nor could I read the whole thread. The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach. We soooo need midwives, we sooo need the public at large to understand homebirth and shit like this just steps in the way of progress.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by graciesma

I am only speaking for my self but If a person has not been through extensive training to do medical procedures and/or is not certified they will be going nowhere near my crotch or my my child.

And that is certainly your right.

I have had 3 children all in hospitals. two surrogate and then my own beutiful baby. All were wonderful experiences it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission.

It is true that hospitals require your permission to treat you, but it is also true that in a lot of places, "informed consent" is merely a formality. Maybe I am in kind of a unique position, because in addition to being a homebirth midwife for a lot of years, I have also worked as a hospital L&D nurse. I can assure you that very often doctors and nurses DO do things that would be against your will, *if you were informed about it*. For a lot of medical folks, the old adage applies that it is "easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission."

None of the children I have birthed have ever had anything done to them ?i did not agree too including shots and vit k. I strongly feel like the medical community is always getting bashed on this site.

Maybe what you are really "hearing" is the frustration of women who have to work long and hard just to find a midwife who will attend a homebirth. You are hearing the anger of women who are criticized as "irresponsible" because they choose to give birth at home.

These doctors and nurses do thier job because they care.

Some do and some don't. Some started out caring and just gave up. Some just flat out don't like women. Some doctors are bad; some midwives are bad. Some midwives are wonderful and some doctors are wonderful. We just can't generalize about any group.

I do believe that we can't have safe homebirth without good hospital back-up. I also believe that we can't have safe hospital birth without midwife-attended homebirth as the model.

In my opinion small minded as it may be doctors are proffesionals and when it comes to something likr bringing a precious life into the world Im just not willing to take the risk of a hgome birth.

Are you aware of the huge amount of research that supports the safety of homebirth?

then again two babes were technicaly not mine. In any event I am sending my thoughts and PRAYERS to the family and truly hope it was gods will and not lack of intervention.

I hope the best for all involved in this very tragic situation.

Valerie
Illinois

[RedOakMomma]

graciesma~ , sweetie. You sound frustrated. I agree that the medical community gets the short end of the stick (and is often vilified) here on the boards, but I think there's a reason for that. A lot of the women here are seeking alternatives, or are here because of negative birth experiences, or just feel more comfortable with more "natural" choices for birthing (even I can see that a hospital isn't the most "natural" place to give birth). Do I believe in the ability to have an amazing, empowering, non-violent, drug-free birth at a hospital? Yes, I do, and I have had one. Here in Milwaukee, actually. My OB, who specializes in high risk pregnancies, supported me in an all natural labor of twins (one breech). I didn't have a midwife or a doula, and I think my hospital birth was an amazing, lovely, child-centered expereience. Not one objectionable thing happened, and both of my babies were in my sight for every second we were in the hospital. CAN positive births happen at a hospital? Of course. Has it happened for a lot of women at this site? No.

I also believe that midwives can be every bit as qualified as doctors to deliver babies, and that homebirths can be safe. Bad outcomes happen at home and they happen in hospitals...the ones at home just seem so "unusual" that they make all the news.

I haven't read the Journal articles, so I don't know how this story is being portrayed in the local paper....I have heard this story covered on the local evening news and on our local NPR station. In both cases, the story was covered briefly, but then followed by a statement from the statewide midwifes guild....apparently there's legislation coming up so that only certified midwives can call themselves "midwives."....the guild supports this legislation (one of the midwives wrote it, the story said), and I think it would do a lot to improve the status of midwife care here in WI.

It's a sad story, and a very VERY unusual outcome...I hardly think it can be used to judge the merits of homebirth...anymore so than we could or should use one bad outcome at a hospital to judge the merits of hospitals. Tragedy, unfortunately, happens.

[doulajen]

Originally Posted by graciesma

I am only speaking for my self but If a person has not been through extensive training to do medical procedures and/or is not certified they will be going nowhere near my crotch or my my child. I have had 3 children all in hospitals. two surrogate and then my own beutiful baby. All were wonderful experiences it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission. None of the children I have birthed have ever had anything done to them ?i did not agree too including shots and vit k. I strongly feel like the medical community is always getting bashed on this site. These doctors and nurses do thier job because they care. In my opinion small minded as it may be doctors are proffesionals and when it comes to something likr bringing a precious life into the world Im just not willing to take the risk of a hgome birth. then again two babes were technicaly not mine. In any event I am sending my thoughts and PRAYERS to the family and truly hope it was gods will and not lack of intervention.

I don't even know what to say to this.... but here are some of my thoughts

I have worked in hospitals for many years, I have heard doctors tell me and other nurses that they were "going to do a c-section because they had dinner plans and besides the mother is a teen, what will she care." I have seen mothers held down, forced to have exams, monitoring, medication that they did not want. I have seen doctors manually remove a placenta because he was running late for a date. This caused the mom a great deal of pain and a post-partum hemorrhage. I have seen male doctors belittle and degrade women in labor. I have seen doctors yell at women and tell them that their baby will surely die if they did not do x, y, or z. I have seen them threaten to call the police or CPS if mom refused the eye ointment or vit K. You can not tell me that it is a lie that doctors force women into unwanted procedures!!!

:

[AnditheBee]

Originally Posted by graciesma

I have had 3 children all in hospitals. two surrogate and then my own beutiful baby. All were wonderful experiences it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission. None of the children I have birthed have ever had anything done to them ?i did not agree too including shots and vit k.

I am sooo glad for you that your hospital births were wonderful! Mine was, too, despite its ending in an unplanned cesarean. The doctor was wonderful and the nurses were, too. They let me push however I wanted for 7 hours without saying a word except encouragement and support! Afterward, one nurse made my c-section recovery go much more smoothly than I believe it would have otherwise; another helped get me established with breastfeeding, even moreso than the lactation consultant had! I really loved those nurses.

However, not everyone is as lucky as you and me. At the same hospital, with a different doctor and a couple of inexperienced nurses, one friend of mine had an episiotomy performed without her knowledge (!!!) or consent. I have another friend who delivered elsewhere and was not only given an episiotomy without being told, but her child was also circumcised without her being told first!!! (She had intended to have him circ'd, but STILL...)

So unfortunately, yes, sometimes doctors and nurses do things against peoples' will and/or without their prior consent. This is why women here tend to get very "worked up" about medicalized births--because of situations like my friends' above. If women were better-informed and felt confident about their own knowledge and abilities, things like this wouldn't happen as much; therefore, the people on this board want everyone to be as informed and confident as possible. Sometimes it comes across as bashing or flaming, but I think it's usually intended to be constructive rather than destructive.

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

It's a sad story, and a very VERY unusual outcome...I hardly think it can be used to judge the merits of homebirth...anymore so than we could or should use one bad outcome at a hospital to judge the merits of hospitals.

Well-said!

[homebirthing]

It is a total lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission.

All I can say is that I wish you were right...but sadly that isn't true.

[paquerette]

Originally Posted by graciesma

it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will.

Well, I'm a total liar then. I'm totally lying I guess when I tell you that I was forcibly medicated with pitocin even as I was clearly and distinctly saying "I do not want any pitocin, I just want to nurse my baby." Yep, there sure are a lot of liars around here. Check out the birth trauma and birthrape groups for even more of them.

[aprilushka]

My friend's doctor was going to break her water during an induction without telling her first. Considering that AROM comes with certain increased risks, this was pretty inexcusable without consent. Her doula saw what was coming and asked her outloud if she was ready for that. She said no, she wasn't ready and was afraid. The doctor got really pissed off and said, "Well what did you think, that it was going to be a cake walk?" and stormed out of the room. She later came back and my friend consented to the AROM.

I've also heard of a woman being put under general and given c/s without her consent when she showed up pushing to a hospital that has banned VBACs.

[AngelBee]

It is a total lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission.

What about NOT telling them they have a choice?

I had more nureses hands in my crotch and pushing on my stomach with babies 1 and 2. I never questioned as I thought that was the way it was done.

Baby 3..........only touched when I asked to be. Never put their hands in my or on me without my asking. If they felt they should, they told me....but still left the option for me to say no.

Babies 1 and 2: Hospital birth with OB. One of the top hospitals and top OB in MN.

Baby 3: Midwife overseen be above OB. Different hospital. Great experience! :

What is the difference? To me....the midwife. It is all about the approach. The midset. I love my OB. Our family has gone to him for over 27 years. For me though, a midwife is a good fit. I feel so grateful that I have a choice.

We are planning to have a home birth the 4th time around

[Peppamint]

Originally Posted by graciesma

I am only speaking for my self but If a person has not been through extensive training to do medical procedures and/or is not certified they will be going nowhere near my crotch or my my child. I have had 3 children all in hospitals. two surrogate and then my own beutiful baby. All were wonderful experiences it is a totall lie that doctors and nurses are doing things against someones will. They have no right to do any thing w/out your permission. None of the children I have birthed have ever had anything done to them ?i did not agree too including shots and vit k. I strongly feel like the medical community is always getting bashed on this site. These doctors and nurses do thier job because they care. In my opinion small minded as it may be doctors are proffesionals and when it comes to something likr bringing a precious life into the world Im just not willing to take the risk of a hgome birth. then again two babes were technicaly not mine. In any event I am sending my thoughts and PRAYERS to the family and truly hope it was gods will and not lack of intervention.

You do realize you're at the Homebirth forum right?

I had my hospital birth experience thankyouverymuch and I chose homebirth the next time to avoid another birth full of insinuations of serious complications that could occur if I didn't let the doctor/nurse do all sorts of procedures (I might add- another OB laughed when he found out what they did because it was incredibly overdone and unnecessary). So doctors do find ways to have their way.

[dessismama]

Graciesma,

While homebirth is not for everyone, it is so sad that midwives get a bad rep in the press... This is so horrible for the whole birthing atmosphere in this country...

You should do your research though. Homebirth is actually safer than a hospital birth for low-risk women. I have done both, and my homebirth went so much more smoothly than my hospital births (not to mention that my baby was with me the whole time unlike at the hospital)...

Also, my midiwfe knew lots of home remedies, more than any doctor I know...

[Penny6]

I'm a L&D nurse and I have seen babies die at the hospital. Not once did it make it to the newspaper. This poor midwife's career is probably over because of a terrible outcome that probably would have happened in the hospital if the patient was there. I just feel awful when home birth midwives are vilified in the press when the press has no idea what birth is really like.
P.S. Home birth is NOT unsafe. Study after study has shown that home birth IS safe (and empowering, etc).

[Snowdrift]

Originally Posted by graciesma

I am only speaking for my self but If a person has not been through extensive training to do medical procedures and/or is not certified they will be going nowhere near my crotch or my my child.

Seems that for me to get pregnant, I've gotta let *someone* near my crotch.

In most cases, getting it out no more requires medical procedures than getting it there in the first place. What it does require in virtually all cases is relaxation, calm, comfort, and a feeling of safety.

In relatively few cases, conception, like birth, requires medical intervention. But I'm awfully glad I didn't need a doctor around.

To me, saying that birth should always be attended by someone with extensive training in medical procedures is kinda like saying conception should always be attended by someone with extensive training in medical procedures.

[Stugroupie]

Originally Posted by tie-dyed

In most cases, getting it out no more requires medical procedures than getting it there in the first place. In relatively few cases, conception, like birth, requires medical intervention. But I'm awfully glad I didn't need a doctor around.

I had never heard anyone say that before, but well said! I think having a doc around during conception would have spoiled the mood! I had my son in the hospital, and though it was a fairly pleasant experience, it was not exactly intimate! Looking forward to a quiet, peaceful birth experience.

[Wugmama]

I am planning my first homebirth and am due in 3 weeks. My husband and I had asked our 2 midwives to go over with us the types of things that can go wrong and what can be done about them - this was about 4 months back. We were satisfied and at peace with our decision for a homebirth.

At my appt last week, I asked my midwives to remind me what would happen if we experienced shoulder dystocia. One asked me if I had read about this case and I said I had. She told me what they do for shoulder dystocia, and again my husband and I are at peace with our decision - aware of the risks and benefits.

But my midwife told me I should know that this poor WI baby did not die due to shoulder dystocia but from infection. She said the mother's water had been broken for 5 days prior to the birth. I don't know how she knows this, or if she is correct. I didn't ask any more questions about it, really just wanted to focus on my own upcoming birth. My midwife making judgemental comments or anything like that. We are in MN where we have licenced midwives for our homebirth.

I'm so sorry for the family, the baby and the midwife.

~Tracy

[quelindo]

Originally Posted by Wugmama

But my midwife told me I should know that this poor WI baby did not die due to shoulder dystocia but from infection. She said the mother's water had been broken for 5 days prior to the birth. I don't know how she knows this, or if she is correct.

Yes, I had heard this too, and from someone who is "in the know" around here. I don't believe the investigation is anywhere near complete, though.

I hope you have the birth experience you're hoping for. I did -- it was amazing -- and I wish all women knew that birth could be the way I experienced it.