Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #7 - Page 2

[loraxc]

I wanted to welcome all the new posters as well.

DS has some tics, some social issues, and we are on the journey of having him evaluated. I go back and forth wondering if it is the "system" that labels him as something versus having this special way of dealing with the world that I think may have more to do with being gifted than anything else.

I hear this. I think it can be very hard to parse. I am really wondering if we are going to be looking at this once Froglet gets in school. I'm not saying that I think she's going to be diagnosable, per se, but that I think she is going to be socially unusual, and that it's going to be hard to separate giftedness from the possibility of a mild something "else." This is just my instinct, right now, as I watch her and compare her to other toddlers her age.

Someone recommended a book to me...shoot, can't quite recall the name ...something about giftedness and dual diagnosis?

[teachma]

Originally Posted by kellywhalen

DS has some tics, some social issues, and we are on the journey of having him evaluated. I go back and forth wondering if it is the "system" that labels him as something versus having this special way of dealing with the world that I think may have more to do with being gifted than anything else.

Welcome to you. My ds is 5 and we just completed an evaluation which revealed, well, not too much. I have known for some time that he has anxiety, and during periods of severe anxiety, obsessive-compulsive behaviors have emerged along with some relatively mild physical tics. Last summer, for instance, he was constantly wiping his mouth with the back of his wrist, after each time he ate a bite of food or spoke at all. He was also shrugging one shoulder and rolling his neck frequently. He has been in therapy since June for the anxiety, and all of these symptoms have been completely alleviated. He remains tense and high strung, but that's more like how I am, so I think it's either hereditary or learned. He has had a variety of social issues because he has never liked to play the same way as boys his age. He doesn't like toys, but instead likes to make sculptures and symmetrical designs with all sorts of art supplies, create elaborate scenarious to act out (kind of like playing house, but with magical stuff or religious themed ideas, or pirates from time to time). Now he is starting to enjoy more physical activities (basketball, soccer, tae kwon do) and that's helped him during times like recess at school. He doesn't ever choose to have friends come over to play, but I invite them periodically anyway. Sometimes it's a success, and other times, he is so opinionated about what they should do on the playdate that the whole thing backfires. It's hard. I can relate. Oh yeah, and we also have some sensory issues that come and go, fluctuating also with the level of his overall anxiety.

[teachma]

Originally Posted by loraxc

I wanted to welcome all the new posters as well.



I hear this. I think it can be very hard to parse. I am really wondering if we are going to be looking at this once Froglet gets in school. I'm not saying that I think she's going to be diagnosable, per se, but that I think she is going to be socially unusual, and that it's going to be hard to separate giftedness from the possibility of a mild something "else." This is just my instinct, right now, as I watch her and compare her to other toddlers her age.

So interesting because I remember feeling this exact way about ds when he was of toddler age, and it has proven true! My dd, on the other hand, aside from being pretty advanced in all areas of development, is so strikingly "normal," that's kind of frightening too! She just happens to be an exceptionally coordinated 20 month old who speaks paragraphs, understands everything, but plays like a regular kid in most ways.

[CAmomto1]

Originally Posted by teachma

but my son's area of need is remembering that he's not the teacher!

LOL! That resonates with me.

[eilonwy]

I've got older kid gifted issues, but they're all mine. I've still got a complex about my childhood and teen years.

BeanBean is another kid who seems strikingly normal in many ways, but the more I look at his "normal" behaviors, the more extraordinary he seems to be. He's extroverted and very sociable, and I always thought that was what "normal" meant, but it turns out that I was wrong... BeanBean is rather exceptional in this regard. People are shocked by what he has to say, true, but I think that most of the time they're more shocked that he's initiating and continuing conversation with them. For example: a month or two (or three? ) ago, BeanBean ran away from me in a department store. This wasn't a huge surprise, but this time he was too fast and I lost track of him (I'm not tall enough to see over racks or shelves in stores). I had worked in a store in this chain before, so I knew their lost/unattended child code and walked to the aisle to wait for it. When I heard it, I went towards the department that called the code and saw BeanBean walking, holding hands with a clerk and chatting amiably with an assistant manager. "There's my Mamma and my sister!" he said, and came to give me a hug. The clerk was smitten ("he's so adorable!") and the assistant manager was very impressed. "He was so polite, he just came up to us and asked if we'd please help him find his Mamma and his sister. What a sweet kid!"

Apparently, what's *typical* for a nearly-three-year-old is for the child to burst into tears when they realize that Mamma is no longer in visual range. Not so with BeanBean, who felt perfectly safe even before he found the clerk. There were other people in the store, but BeanBean went straight for someone who worked there, with whom he felt comfortable. My own reaction in such a situation at his age would have been atypical, but in a different direction; BeanBean's confidence was/is totally extraordinary, and his social skills are, in my mind, astounding.

[eilonwy]

So BeanBean has been "officially" home educating since August. Over the past two weeks, despite my completely miserable self being around, he's made some *huge* leaps. It's absolutely unbelievable to me to watch him sometimes! I've written down a few of the things that he's working on and I'm just seriously impressed.

We'll probably start Story of the World, part I next week and kick Torah study into gear. He's been asking me for-- get this-- homework. He wants to do the books that ChibiChibi did last year (MCP Phonics and Spelling Workout). He's developed this sudden interest in writing, is absolutely *loving* reading and recitation... I always knew that there was a possibility that he'd just jump forward like this, but I wasn't actually *expecting* it so soon. I'm not quite sure what I'll do with him before I can get the books, though. He's having the time of his life with EarlyBird 2B, and I've been letting him "write" and giving him words to copy (no whole sentences yet, though he's asked for them... maybe soon) but without "kindergarten paper." I'm very concerned that I might stress him out about the writing thing, because I've heard so much about little boys and writing, but BeanBean is so incredibly happy to sit writing "carfax reports" for ages... Funny kid!

At any rate, I didn't mean this post to just be a brag on my Bean (though it did turn out that way : ). I was just curious, once again, about the line between following a child's interests and encouraging too much involvement with something. I feel a bit like I've let a tornado loose with the whole home education thing, like the Bean is out of the bag and ready to *run*. I'm not so much worried about burning him out at this point as I am about making him strange, or allowing him to *be* strange... I'm also not articulating well, I've got bad TBP.

I'm also wondering what to do with BooBah, who seems desperate to do the things that her brother does. She throws fits when she can't! I don't even know how to console her, she's 18 months old she's not supposed to care that she can't recite poems or whatever. She's not even supposed to *notice*. So what can I do with her mininess?

[catgirl]

In no particular order:

Rynna, what are you using for Torah study? I still haven't found anything for ds's level that I like and I'm winging it.

Allgirls, I was going to suggest that maybe Sophia just needs to have a few things explained - like, maybe, that you will teach her to read? It might not have occurred to her that there's a straightforward solution to the problem!

I, too, have a not-pg-but definitely-off-the-regular-curve kid, who also thinks he's the teacher or at least that teacher's assistant. And since it's OK to brag here, may I please mention that he just blew through 3 years of math in a year and will start the 4th grade math curriculum tomorrow! He's multiplying, dividing and exchanging like an old pro - it's really fun to teach him! (We use Shiller math, if anyone's interested.)

OK, I'm slinking back into the shadows of lurkdom now...

[teachma]

Rynna, it must be very tough with BooBah emulating her bro but unable to measure up...I have this at my house, but to a much lesser degree because my children are 3.5 years apart. So, it is mostly the case that dd understands the differences between her brother and her. However, particularly with physical stunts, it seems that she can come very close to being able to do what he does by observing for just a few minutes. For instance, ds started Tae Kwon Do a few weeks ago. He is just getting to the point where he feels confident enough to show me some of his stuff at home. He is into teaching his sister what he learns, and MAN, she gets it instantly. All the forms and poses, jumps, spins, Korean vocalizations...I can sit on the couch and watch their performance all day.

Dd is suddenly interested in classifying everything according to "big" and "little." Now she is really reminding me of her brother! She's been using the words "big" and "little" (and huge, small, and tiny, and teeny-tiny...as well as probably other synonyms that now escape me) for months, but now she's asking the rhetorical, "Is ______ big or little?" and answering it herself. I was sure she's consider her big brother "big," but no, she knows he's little!

Rynna, I too am interested in how you're approaching Torah study. Ds borders on religious fanaticism at times at least compared to my significantly laid back feel about it...but he is so into it that I would like to supplement his once-weekly Hebrew school. Everyone thinks I have a future rabbi on my hands...possibly the first Irish/Chinese/Jewish fellow to pursue that position? (yep, I always said my kids were destined to be smart because tgey are mutts, and aren't mixed breed dogs supposed to possess greater intelligence?--TOTALLY kidding, in case my attempt at humor is not interpreted as such!)

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by teachma

Rynna, it must be very tough with BooBah emulating her bro but unable to measure up...I have this at my house, but to a much lesser degree because my children are 3.5 years apart. So, it is mostly the case that dd understands the differences between her brother and her. However, particularly with physical stunts, it seems that she can come very close to being able to do what he does by observing for just a few minutes. For instance, ds started Tae Kwon Do a few weeks ago. He is just getting to the point where he feels confident enough to show me some of his stuff at home. He is into teaching his sister what he learns, and MAN, she gets it instantly. All the forms and poses, jumps, spins, Korean vocalizations...I can sit on the couch and watch their performance all day.

How cool! When it comes to most physical activities, BooBah is the one who's teaching BeanBean. Her gross motor skills are a total mystery to me... she must have inherited them from my youngest sister, I was never all that coordinated. I can still remember working such things out logically, rather than physically. BooBah, however, has this natural instinct for physical movement. Outside of the swimming pool (where BeanBean excells) BooBah definately comes out ahead. The thing is, everything that she shows BeanBean, he picks up right away. He needs to practice, though, and he's not as fearless/trusting as she is with most things. It's like, he'll watch her and figure out what she's doing, but he's afraid when he does it himself... and he doesn't have the natural feel for it. Sort of like Dink asking Ender to demonstrate his "lying on his back" attack; he saw it and saw that it was cool and worked, but didn't understand what he was actually looking at or what Ender was really doing...

Dd is suddenly interested in classifying everything according to "big" and "little." Now she is really reminding me of her brother! She's been using the words "big" and "little" (and huge, small, and tiny, and teeny-tiny...as well as probably other synonyms that now escape me) for months, but now she's asking the rhetorical, "Is ______ big or little?" and answering it herself. I was sure she's consider her big brother "big," but no, she knows he's little!

OMG, BeanBean has been doing this too, only he's classifying everyone as a baby, little kid, big kid, punk kid ( this is what I call teenagers/people in their early 20's who aren't "adults") and grownups. Mike and I are grownups, BeanBean (3) is a little kid, ChibiChibi (8) is a big kid, BeastieBeast (5) is a big kid sometimes and a little kid sometimes (which makes sense; she can do all sorts of things, but she needs a lot of supervision because she has no sense of danger), my sister (24) is a punk kid. All of this makes sense, until you get to his aunt, SIL (39). "Aunt SIL is a big kid," he declared on Wednesday. "Really? She's not a grownup?" "No, she has very noisy toys and that makes her a big kid." When I told Mike about he just about fell over laughing. I can hardly wait to tell SIL, who will no doubt agree.

Rynna, I too am interested in how you're approaching Torah study. Ds borders on religious fanaticism at times at least compared to my significantly laid back feel about it...but he is so into it that I would like to supplement his once-weekly Hebrew school. Everyone thinks I have a future rabbi on my hands...possibly the first Irish/Chinese/Jewish fellow to pursue that position? (yep, I always said my kids were destined to be smart because tgey are mutts, and aren't mixed breed dogs supposed to possess greater intelligence?--TOTALLY kidding, in case my attempt at humor is not interpreted as such!)

Well, I thought it was hilarious, but that's probably because I'm very mixed myself. My kids look white to the "untrained" eye, but I look sort of generic... definately "person," but I'm one of those people that other people look at and see exactly what they want to see or just a big old question mark. :

Torah Study! One of the Jewish moms here pointed me to a site called Torah Tots, which lets you know the parsha of the week and has some fun parsha related activities. It's a Tzivos Hashem site, so it's from Lubavitch (not everything may apply if you're not frum/observant) but it does give me a jumping off point. I've been looking at that and reading the appropriate stories to BeanBean, chock full of my own commentary... I'll have to find & add some links tonight. It's fun stuff. I'm trying to get into the habit of saying a bracha (she'ha'kol, because we don't keep kosher) before we eat; BeanBean has it mostly memorized, even though I forget as often as I remember. I'm still looking for a fun way to start teaching him some Hebrew. Other than his own name and his sister's, he really doesn't know all that much. :

[Henry's_Mamma]

I'm re-introducing myself here. I'm Amy, mamma to 25 month old Henry, who we believe may be at least a little gifted. What he does, says, and remembers amazes me, and he's precocious if nothing else. When I see him around his peers, it is clear that he is "different." And many adults (and our ped.) have commented on his smarts. In fact, at his 2 year appt., where we saw a new to us dr., she was impressed with him and asked us what we were doing and I sorta shrugged my shoulders because I really don't know. I'm just parenting him and meeting him where he's at. I'm really beginning to think that a whole lot of parents don't do that at all, and certainly never talk to their kids or answer their questions.

Anyway, we've been looking at 2.5 year old pre-school programs for next fall (mostly for socialization, but a little for "academics"), and I've been getting a lot of looks for asking the "how would you address the needs of my kid who is doing x already." Some of these teachers think I am pushing him and we're merely following his lead. I've even been asked if he knows how to play (under the presumption that all I do is push him academically) which he clearly does do and does more so of independently everyday. The judging is really starting to irk me though. I have had great success with the Montessori programs and have received a ton of wonderful ideas and support. However, we think it is out of our budget for next year, so we're strongly looking to "homeschool" pre-school. In all honesty, I'd like to homeschool through at least part of elementary school, but dh is adamently against it. But even one of the Montessori teachers said that it may be our only choice in order to meet his needs.

This leads me to some questions ... ds is desperately trying to read. I'm trying to help him but realize my phonics need some brushing up on (I just sort of "got" reading, so I'm not sure I ever really learned the phonics rules). He understands that different letters and combinations of letters make different sounds, and he can "sound out" words (sounds out the individual letters but doesn't merge them to form a word), but I need to take him to the next level and help him organize his thinking a little. (He's really all over the place, and I think it is frustrating him.) We've done some starfall, but I'd like something a little more concrete and organized that I can do with him one on one. Any recommendations on reading curriculums, even from the standpoint of just helping me?

We're also going to start introducing some Montessori stuff in our home. I'm thinking of a designated area that will have some Montessori materials that I will rotate in and out every week or two, depending on his interest and mastery. Have any of you done this?

I look forward to lurking and occasionally posting. I so enjoy reading about your amazing kids.

[ChristaN]

I'm just posting briefly to sub to this thread! The other one was getting long. Henry's_mama, we didn't much get the 'you much be pushing her' stuff until later so I guess that I got lucky. Either that, or I was too socially isolated and busy with grad school when they were little that I wasn't talking to enough preschool teachers to hear anything. I did have a few people tell me that dd couldn't know the things that she did b/c it was impossible at her age , but I just thought that they were stupid to be honest. Sorry not to have any input on how to deal with it b/c living in a closet or being judged if you choose not to is no fun.

We have dd's assessment set up for the beginning of January. I've mentioned it to her briefly and that it will help us know how she learns and help us find the best teachers for her learning style -- I don't want to tell her that we are having her IQ tested. She seems excited about the idea. She's also finally started the 45 min/week TAG reading program, which is great since she gets to do some critical thinking there. It only lasts for 6 weeks, but it's better than nothing. We're also considering switching both girls to an arts magnet charter school that is opening in our area next fall. In any case, I've got to run. I'll keep lurking and let you all know how the testing goes after it is done.

[OTMomma]

Amy- I have been doing some Montessorri activities with my dd and I think that its great for gifted kids. I wanted to share some links- I had these somewhere in the old thread, but I don't want to send you hunting through 800 posts for it!
http://get-me.to/monthome
http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CWhome.html
http://www.montessorimaterials.org/index.htm

I hope it gives you some fun ideas to do with your dc. The last link has some stuff for teaching reading, though I haven't done many of them myself.

Peace,
Laura

[eilonwy]

Amy-- The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading sounds like exactly what you're looking for-- a phonics-based approach which is very organized and logical. You can move through it at any speed (as you can with any home education materials) and even if you're going very slowly, you'll feel like you're making progress. My only problem with this book is that I can't possibly see it being a reasonable approach to take with a child any older than 4, 5 tops. As with First Language Lessons for the Well-Trained Mind, it seems to me as though it was written primarily for gifted preschool-aged children, rather than kindergarten/first graders of average ability. I'm basing this mostly on the speed of the lessons, they way everything is broken down into very tiny pieces.. It's as if it's designed for either a very young child or one with almost no attention span. If I'm not explaining this well, please let me know and give me another chance... my TBP has set in.

Britishmum-- how old is your little man now? How's school going for your girls?

BeanBean absolutely refused to sign, he just wanted to talk. He started very early and hasn't really shut up since. BooBah would probably have signed if she had been the firstborn, but as it was she's always had BeanBean around as an example, so she talks. She did sign a bit for ChibiChibi, but BeanBean always refused-- if you showed him a sign and said a word, he would say the word and giggle at your moving hands.

[Henry's_Mamma]

Ohhhh.....thank you for the links and ideas.

We signed with ds. He still signs certain words even though he says them simultaneously (like Please or when he's trying to convince me that a yes would be a better answer than the no I'm giving him) and says others that he also knows the signs for. But if you quiz him on signs, he remembers them all and still enjoys learning new ones. I'm excited b/c the next 3 volumes of Signing Time are coming out. : I look at it as the ground work (brain work, if you will) for a second language, so I'm trying to make an effort to do it more with him. Then again, ds didn't say much until he was about 19 months old (although had a 100 plus signing vocab), and he hasn't shut up since.

[Emeline]

Henry's mama - I wish I could offer some advice, but how ds learned to read is a mystery to me. Honestly, I never even read that much to him, maybe a book or two at bedtime, but not even every night. When he was just turning a year or so he started reading words, at least that's when I realized it, he could have been doing it for awhile before that because by the time I realized it he was really quite good. He was reading words on books, signs, food boxes, in the newpaper, ect... I hadn't really been a part of his learning process up until then so I figured he was doing fine on his own. By 18 months he could read almost anything, although I obviously had to be careful about what material was left around for him to read. I remember when we went in for his 18 month checkup and while I was checking us in he started reading a magazine article about some awful overseas tragedy. I got the strangest looks from another mom in the waiting room when I put all the magazines up on a shelf where he couldn't read them. I told her "I'm sorry if you wanted to look at those, they just aren't appropriate for an 18 month old to read!":. A little research and a good librarian at our local library helped me find some appropriate reading material for him. It's tough when your just turned 2 year old reads at a 7th grade level . However at newly 4 we're running out of books on the list to read so I'm going to have to have another research session and schedule a pow wow with the librarian again.

The books the others reccommended sound good, I'd give them a try!

[eilonwy]

On one of these threads, we made lists of books for very young children who read... I can't even remember which one, though. Perhaps we should do it again?

[eilonwy]

I had another question, one about homeschooling... anyone have any ideas/suggestions for keeping the BooBah amused at *her* level (behind BeanBean but nothing like 18 months)?

[USAmma]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Amy-- The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading sounds like exactly what you're looking for-- a phonics-based approach which is very organized and logical. You can move through it at any speed (as you can with any home education materials) and even if you're going very slowly, you'll feel like you're making progress. My only problem with this book is that I can't possibly see it being a reasonable approach to take with a child any older than 4, 5 tops. As with

I am using this right now with my just-turned-5yo and she is about halfway through it and her reading has really taken off! She is reading everything! This approach seems very bland and boring but she is responding well and likes it. I can't believe how well she's reading compared to even a couple of mos ago. I do only 10 minutes a day with this book and I stopped using the word cards out of laziness.

I'm about to start spelling lessons with her since she's writing a lot and always asking me how to spell things.

[USAmma]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

On one of these threads, we made lists of books for very young children who read... I can't even remember which one, though. Perhaps we should do it again?

Bob Books are great! My dd started reading those at a young 3, and worked her way through all of them before we started formal phonic lessons. It gave her a real taste of success and she enjoyed the stories and simple pictures.

[allgirls]

I signed a bit with Sophia..her first sign was milk at 5 mos...but she started talking soon thereafter and said every word she signed after about 7 mos so I stopped adding new signs after a while.