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Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #7 - Page 5  

post #81 of 364
Welcome phishmama . My thoughts on why this is placed in the special needs forum is b/c our kiddos are different from the average norm just as children who have delays or other problems are different from the average kid and gifted children require more from a parent (at least mine sure does!).

In regard to the IQ testing, I'd only do it if you thought that it would:
1) change what you are doing for your ds (you might skip him a grade if his IQ was higher than you thought, but not if you didn't know or something like that)
or
2) he's having problems and you want to know what you are dealing with.

My younger dd may be just as bright in an IQ sense as her older sister, but she does not have the sensitivities that her sister does (or at least they are less extreme) and she is a pretty happy little kindergartener.

We are actually having dd#1's IQ tested along with a bunch of other stuff (self esteem inventory, looking for twice exceptionalities -- learning disabilities together with giftedness, etc.). The only reason that we are doing this is b/c she is so intense emotionally, has a hard time with life and tends toward depression at times b/c life is so overwhelmingly vibrant for her. She's also super happy at times, but the world is ending rather frequently too from what she says . I just want some guidance in what it is we are dealing with and how best to help her navigate the rough waters of her life experience. I also am giving some thought as to whether she would be better served emotionally and intellectually by skipping a grade at some point and want to know if she has the ability to be successful with that. She has a hard time with kids her own age and I suspect that she'd fit in better with kids in the next grade up. She feels better understood and happier with older kids.

Dd is in second grade right now. I would not have her skip 3rd or 5th grade b/c there are too many new skill introduced in those years that she has not yet been taught. If you are going to consider grade skipping, I don't think that first grade would be too bad to skip over if your son is already reading at at least a 2nd grade level by the end of this year and can add and subtract and has some addition facts memorized (such as "doubles" -- 2+2=4, etc.) Second grade should be doable for a child with those basic skills and the social maturity to deal as well as the ability to sit still for long periods.

However, if your son is happy with the grade he is in and not bored, I don't think that it would hurt to wait another year and decide later. It certainly isn't now or never.
post #82 of 364
Thank you for your thoughts! See, that is how all this is even coming to be-Ricky is already seperated from his entire class b/c they normally do reading in two subgroups and he's well beyond both groups, so just for him a 3rd group was made. He's the only kid in it, though. He really looks fwd to that one on one time. Uhhh, he's even more advanced in math-we're learning to add and subtract w/negative numbers right now, and he's doing basic multiplication (already bored of addition and subtraction with pos numbers, lol). Same thing w/science. His teacher approached me about what else we could do. He's already the class captain and line leader and all that kinda stuff (the stuff that goes beyond everyone gets a turn to lead the line). I just don't want to set him up for performance issues-I recall the pressures I had as a kids to excel in everything. I don't want him to feel that pressure. I also don't want him bored in class. I want it all, I guess, lol. Good to know about the grade skipping. I mean, I could totally see him doing fine at a second grade level, probably even third grade, but that doesn't mean that he is there emotionally, kwim? I guess the testing is harmless enough. I'm just not sure what we'd do with that info. Maybe I'm copping the ignorance is bliss plea. I don't know. Lots to think about, but you're right, nothing has to be done today. I really appreciate your thoughts and info on this!
post #83 of 364
Just one more thought. You said:
Quote:
I just don't want to set him up for performance issues-I recall the pressures I had as a kids to excel in everything. I don't want him to feel that pressure. I also don't want him bored in class.
That's exactly the balance that I am trying to find for dd. While she is perfectly happy to be bored to an extent b/c she loves everything coming easily and not having to work, I don't want her to have everything so easy that she never learns how to work. I see her falling into that this year and turning into a good little parrot -- she'll routinely give the answer that she knows will get a good grade rather than take a risk on a more creative answer b/c she doesn't want to risk being "wrong." I am trying to find the balance btwn not pushing her and not letting her sit in a little box and coast along without any study skills or life skills that she will need later.
post #84 of 364
Welcome, phishmamma!

This thread is in Special Needs because once upon a time, many threads ago, Britishmum asked for some advice to help her cope with the intensity of her daughter's needs and Cynthia Mosher suggested that she start a thread over here. Gifted children do indeed come with special needs of their own, which are just as far outside the realm of typical (or even super crunchy ) parenting as are the needs of children on the other end of the spectrum, so to speak. Just as there are special needs entailed for children who are developmentally delayed, so there are special needs for children who are developmentally advanced.

As to your son: I say skip him, but I've got major issues about not being skipped as a child when, especially in retrospect, it was obviously what I needed to be successful and happy in school. A child who needs to be accelerated but isn't is being set up for failure, in my opinion. I think that it's a seriously unfair thing to do. As to the IQ testing, that is quite a can of worms; if it would be necessary for the skip, I'd advise you to look into who will be examining your son and under what circumstances (what test will they use, what kind of schedule, what time of day, etc), and set yourself up for the most accurate result (make sure that he gets enough sleep, eats when he's hungry, is able to use the bathroom, etc.). Some kids will not test well given certain tests and/or certain examiners, and you definately want the best possible situation all around if you have a choice.

Grade skipping is, according to the research, more beneficial and less traumatic than most people believe. Check out A Nation Deceived for lots of great info on acceleration.
post #85 of 364
i just wanted to chime in. My kiddos are by no means gifted, but definately above average, particularly dd. Both of my kids were like little people as babies. I look at my friends kids at 12 mos who are still rather flacid and bah bah babbling. Both of my kids were beginning to put sentences together by that point and walking. I remember my ds at 10 mos old laying on the ground playing with hot wheels just watching the wheels roll.... he would do this forever, I have never seen a child do this. We started with signs early so this may be why their language developed so well. My dd is just amazing to me. She turned 2 in October and just understands and says so much. She talks in full sentences, is pottytrained and loves to be read to (no she doesnt read) she learned how to count on her own, I didnt try to teach her. The kinds of things she says are unbelievable. She has been into imaginary play now for 8+ months which i think is great for her age. I get comments all the time on her language and "adultness" when we are out and about. I get a lot of "she is so smart for her age" kind of comments....

Also wanted to add my ds knew everything about the cycle of life by age 4. His friends parents are shocked that he is so insightfull and curious. He knows How babies are made, and birthed as well as all about death. He is so curious, I never expected to be explaining the bird and the bees to my 4 year old!!! He just would not stop asking questions until I told him everything.

I had a friend I met when ds was a baby at a breastfeeding group. He was so advanced as a baby (he too rolled at like 6 weeks old though everything else came in average time), and toddler that she quickly became very competitive with her little girl and I had to end the friendship. It is very hard for me with friends of kids, I feel like I have to not say how smart they are bc I dont want to make people feel bad. My friends little boy is a year ahead of dd and she always says... well Autumn is advanced for her age and J*** is a bit delayed so its like they are the same age!! It makes me feel bad and I didnt want to tell her that Autumn had pottytrained (at the same time as J***), or moved to a bed or given up her pacifier (which he just gave up bc of speech delays and teeth misalignment).....

I dunno, I love that I have a place now to brag about my kids accomplishments... I think we need an above average tribe..lol...
post #86 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN

In regard to the IQ testing, I'd only do it if you thought that it would:
1) change what you are doing for your ds (you might skip him a grade if his IQ was higher than you thought, but not if you didn't know or something like that)
or
2) he's having problems and you want to know what you are dealing with.

My younger dd may be just as bright in an IQ sense as her older sister, but she does not have the sensitivities that her sister does (or at least they are less extreme) and she is a pretty happy little kindergartener.

We are actually having dd#1's IQ tested along with a bunch of other stuff (self esteem inventory, looking for twice exceptionalities -- learning disabilities together with giftedness, etc.). The only reason that we are doing this is b/c she is so intense emotionally, has a hard time with life and tends toward depression at times b/c life is so overwhelmingly vibrant for her. She's also super happy at times, but the world is ending rather frequently too from what she says . I just want some guidance in what it is we are dealing with and how best to help her navigate the rough waters of her life experience.
I agree with this, and we did have ds (5 yo in public K) privately tested this fall for the same reasons. We did not choose to inform the school that we were testing, nor did we share the results (which, in our minds, were inaccurate for a few reasons). We were hoping it would shed some light on his "issues," but it didn't, and the issues we've dealt with for the last two or three years (anxiety, extreme perfectionism, major intense personality) seem to be subsiding lately anyway...long story short, I was not very happy I'd gone through with the process, so unless you will use the results to alter his education is some way, I would recommend against it. Just my opinion!
post #87 of 364
I am hoping that isn't our experience -- disappointment b/c the testing doesn't give us any insight that we don't already have or is inaccurate. I will only share the info with the school if I feel like it is accurate and will benefit dd in some way -- qualify her for more TAG classes or grade acceleration or something. We are seriously considering changing schools with the kids next year anyway, so I may just keep the results for our own eyes only at this point.

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be getting some actually useful info b/c the people who are evaluating her specialize in gifted kids. Hopefully they will know what they are doing!
post #88 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be getting some actually useful info b/c the people who are evaluating her specialize in gifted kids. Hopefully they will know what they are doing!
Lucky you! The woman who tested ds seemed to specialize in children of highly affluent parents who believe that, because of the opportunities they have provided for their children, they must be gifted (there is a large contingent like this in my town and neighboring ones)...wish I had known that beforehand! It came out in the more subjective portion of her eval that she got the feeling I was one of *those* parents. Plus, it was also apparent that she didn't really like ds too much- it seemed to really bother her that she had to admit, in the report, "Despite his defiant attitude and refusal to participate, he did show flashes of charm and humor at points throughout the testing." I certainly hope you have a better experience!
post #89 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma
Lucky you! The woman who tested ds seemed to specialize in children of highly affluent parents who believe that, because of the opportunities they have provided for their children, they must be gifted (there is a large contingent like this in my town and neighboring ones)...wish I had known that beforehand! It came out in the more subjective portion of her eval that she got the feeling I was one of *those* parents.
I haven't gotten that impression from them. They state that parents are the most reliable in determining giftedness in children and I have heard very good things about this psychologist's office from others, so I hope that I have well placed trust. I'll let you know once we get the report, though! DD goes in next Tuesday for her assessment.
post #90 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum
When we drove off, dh asked me why on earth our child made such a big deal of making a choice, and what was so hard about deciding between two simple items.

Then - and here's the funny part - we decided to stop for a quick dinner at the diner down the road. Dh proceeded to spend an inordinate time deciding what he was going to eat. He read the menu umpteen times, made the waitress talk him through each item, and simply agonised until he made his order. I sat there just grinning at the irony of it all. I swear that if he wasnt a full-grown man, he'd have thrown himself on the floor and cried at the pressure of making a choice between two simple items on a menu.
: Did you point it out to him? Did you offer him some tylenol for his headache? I'm mean like that, I totally would have done it...

I feel your daughter's pain! I hate making decisions like that, I still have a hard time with it. That's one of the reasons that I tend to do my clearnace shopping later in the season (that, and the scary-low prices )-- there's always less selection. One pair of pants in my size? They're not puce? Done!

I've got a question about dreams-- how old were your kids before they finally got it? BeanBean has been talking about dreams for a while now, but until this point, his dreams had been either memory-based or entirely fantastic; about things which had definately happened or things which never could happen in real life. This morning, however, he woke up looking for a granola bar. He became absolutely hysterical when the granola bar couldn't be found-- "But I saw it, it was in my hand!" Now, it didn't help that he'd just woken up and that he's had that horrible stomach virus this week/end, but he was really upset about it. I didn't know how else to explain it to him, he just couldn't accept that the granola bar didn't exist outside of his dream...
post #91 of 364
Phishmama!!! Have him skip as many grades as they will allow!! I was put in early so I didn't have the problem of leaving my friends. It was the best thing since once I hit hs I was BORED even being at the top of my class and was the youngest one there by 1-1/2 years. It's not a label you are looking for, it's appropriate challenge so he doesn't get lazy as surely he will very quickly in public school. Go on the Gifted Development Center's website and do the research. It will open your eyes. Your school ROCKS that they want to do it now. And you would be shortchanging him if you said no testing. Who cares what the tests say? No one. But, you need them in schools to get anywhere a good education for him. And I think the stigma is less on boys than girls being smart, although I could be wrong, mine aren't in school and I'm just going on heresay.
post #92 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi
It's not G-d in literature that is a problem for me. OR my child knowing about other religions. It's that Xianity is SO pervasive, and so often confused with Judaism. For instance, "The Bible"---is a Christian thing. The Torah, or the Tanach is Jewish.

As clever as Dragon Boy (DS1) is, as much as he gets, he is part of a culture that believes primarily in Xianity. I don't want him confused about what we believe in vs. what other people believe in.

I want his ethics and morals to come from Judaism. And I think what kind of literature he reads etc informs that.

I'm not being very clear I think.
You are being slightly unclear in that for starters as I am in the understanding, the Bible has a WHOLE first part that is totally Jewish, says all about the start of the Jews by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and how they are God's people and the promises of their covenant with God and promises they will be His peoples to time indefinite and that He will send the Messiah out of them, HIs Son, to save the world. The Torah is the 1st 5 books in the Holy Scriptures as given by God, as written down in the Bible. It was always the judges/Levites responsibility to interpret the Law as regards day to day life.

I do agree that what we feed our children mentally determines to a degree their outcome, but our households and ourselves, we play a larger roll in what they think, no? My dh's grandfather went to temple every day in Germany, this was after the war that much of his family died in camps. My dh remembers his grandfather going each day when they lived with him for several years in early childhood. These are the things that I believe form a moral foundation in ones' children. Not some book the kid reads or some poem or comic book for that matter, but how we live our lives. I could go further, but I think that would require being on the religion forum.

I LOVE what USAmma's son says!!! We celebrate winter too!
post #93 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyGirlTwinsAPMama
You are being slightly unclear in that for starters as I am in the understanding, the Bible has a WHOLE first part that is totally Jewish, says all about the start of the Jews by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and how they are God's people and the promises of their covenant with God and promises they will be His peoples to time indefinite and that He will send the Messiah out of them, HIs Son, to save the world. The Torah is the rabbis interpretation of the Law as given by God, as written down in the Bible. It was always the judges/Levites responsibility to interpret the Law as regards day to day life and I guess they felt it would be better to write down what they themselves thought at the time.
No this is not correct. The Torah is the whole of the law, sometimes referring to only the first 5 books, sometimes, the entire TaNaKh, and sometimes, the whole of the law. But the Talmud is the Rabbi's interpretations of the law, or the written Oral Torah which is also thought to have been given with the Torah on Mt. Sinai, to Moshe.

Bible, which means book in what, Greek or Latin, is not a Jewish word. It is not how most Jews refer to their sacred text/s. And the Xian Bible is NOT a proper translation of the Hebrew. In fact, it was a translation into Greek and then Latin and then into English from the Latin, no?

And sorry Jews don't believe there is anything about sending G-d's "Son" to save the world. Again that is a Christian concept.

These are the very problems I wastalking about I DO NOT WANT MY SON HAVING with understanding. Someone coming from a Christian perspective rarely has an understanding of Judaism. And sadly, many Jews these days have little understanding of Judaism.

Foundational stories are very important. They inform the child of how their religion sees things. If Jewish stories are presented by a Christian, they take on new interpretations and NO LONGER REMAIN Jewish stories.

My son is very likely to believe what someone he trusts tells him. Not because what they tell him is true but because he trusts them. And Cristian interpretation of JEWISH stories is RARELY even CLOSE to what Jews think about the stories, law, history, etc.

mv
post #94 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
I've got a question about dreams-- how old were your kids before they finally got it? BeanBean has been talking about dreams for a while now, but until this point, his dreams had been either memory-based or entirely fantastic; about things which had definately happened or things which never could happen in real life. This morning, however, he woke up looking for a granola bar. He became absolutely hysterical when the granola bar couldn't be found-- "But I saw it, it was in my hand!"
A month or so ago, Lindy said something specific about a dream of hers for the first time. She woke up, sat up, looked around, and asked, "Was I just dreaming I was reading a magazine with those in it?" I told her she must have been. So she seemed to get that if she woke up and didn't actually see the magazine, she must only have been dreaming about it. (She wasn't able to tell me what "those" were, but in answer to my questions, she said I had been reading the magazine [pronounced "magzagine" ] to her in the dream, and she had liked it.)

Maybe BeanBean had one of those dreams where you're in your actual bed in your actual room, and while you're dreaming of lying there half awake, something realistic happens (like your mom hands you a granola bar.) If you wake up from a dream like that, it isn't immediately obvious that it was a dream.
post #95 of 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi
These are the very problems I wastalking about I DO NOT WANT MY SON HAVING with understanding. Someone coming from a Christian perspective rarely has an understanding of Judaism. And sadly, many Jews these days have little understanding of Judaism.

Foundational stories are very important. They inform the child of how their religion sees things. If Jewish stories are presented by a Christian, they take on new interpretations and NO LONGER REMAIN Jewish stories.

My son is very likely to believe what someone he trusts tells him. Not because what they tell him is true but because he trusts them. And Cristian interpretation of JEWISH stories is RARELY even CLOSE to what Jews think about the stories, law, history, etc.
: I've actually read the Tanach in Hebrew & English, as well as several different versions of Christian Bibles. They're not even close. Start a thread in Religious Studies asking about the differences between the Old Testament and the Torah; while many (most?) Christians are adamant in their belief that they are one and the same, the fact is that they are quite different. It's really a fascinating subject; if you start the thread let me know, because it's bound to be a fun one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil
Maybe BeanBean had one of those dreams where you're in your actual bed in your actual room, and while you're dreaming of lying there half awake, something realistic happens (like your mom hands you a granola bar.) If you wake up from a dream like that, it isn't immediately obvious that it was a dream.
Yeah, I think that it must have been something like that. I've had those moments, too. I was just worried that he seemed so upset by it, at least initially, that it was worthy of wahwahs.
post #96 of 364
Evidently there has been a thread. It lasted 3 posts. This was posted:
http://jewfaq.org/torah.htm

If you want more of a discussion, I'm glad to post a question. Others there will know more than I.

mv
post #97 of 364
Start it, for sure; that page is useful, but doesn't truly address the differences in translation (and, in fact, it implies that the differences are minor when they appear at all-- not true!). Perhaps a Christian & Jewish study thread thread is in order. That could be loads of fun...
post #98 of 364
post #99 of 364
Thanks.

So what are the kiddles doing? How were your holidays? We celebrated the last night of Channukah last night, and that was fun-- BeanBean has enjoyed lighting and saying goodnight to the candles when they get down to the bottom.
post #100 of 364
We visited family in the UK for part of the holidays, and ds pointed out this morning that we had celebrated Hanukkah in two countires, two continents, two months and two years!

And the town menorah (made of tastefully spray=painted plastic drainpipes) was outside my brothers house, and when the rabbi was delayed one night *I* got to go up in the council cherry-picker and light the hurricane lamps, yelling the blessings into the howling gale! Pretty cool.
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