Congratulations all you parents who haven't botched their son or regretted doing so

[Oz Daddy]

I am a 33 year old Aussie father (of a gorgeous girl) and I have been against circumcision since I was old enough to understand the difference. I remember 60 minutes showing an article in 1984 called "The unkindest cut" which was showing the cons of circumcision. I feel that made a huge impact here in Australia, as circumcision rates were in the 80 percentile in the 70's and early 80's and has now dropped to 15%. I live in Western Australia and our current rate is 6%.

What frustrated me for years (since the net began) was how the US rates were remaining so high, even though the country I lived in "changed it's mind" as a whole. Why was I frustrated?

Well I stumbled across Fathermag (website) which was one of the first forums based on circumcision and the cons it has. I started posting there since it began, yet there were and still are men and a few women who glorify and praise the mutilated penis. I honestly thought that the parents of the US were never going to change their mind. I was angry, annoyed and couldn't believe that a country so advanced in everything could be hard headed when it came to the abuse of boys.

Upon finding this site, I was RELIEVED to realise that there ARE parents in the USA who are taking a stance against circumcision and informing their friends and people on here about the sheer stupidity of this medical farce.

Well done to each and everyone of you who has 1. left your son natural or 2. regretted ever doing the procedure to your son. You all deserve a pat on the back for going against the 'norm' which has embedded itself in tradition in the US for far too long.

There will always be the ignorant fools who think removing a piece of the male reproductive organ is justified. It won't be long until they are a teeny tiny part of the population. Those of you who have left your sons intact have no need to worry about ever retracting the foreskin to clean anything underneath. I never had a problem once with my foreskin and never did my 3 brothers.

I have never heard of doctors here in Australia who have retracted the foreskin during checkups! Shame on all those US doctors who think they know best when most are probably circumcised themselves!

Once again congratulations on leaving your son intact. He will thank you one day!

[Frankly Speaking]

I feel like you were writing that for me or vice versa. There are few differences.

I came through the foreskin restoration portal. I was searching for "furniture restoration" and found "foreskin restoration." That piece of furniture never did get restored. But, the first site after the restoration site I visited was FatherMag and the second one was Mothering.com. Unfortunately, I was circumcised and like you, I was against it from the time I figured out what circumcision was.

In that day, this was a debate site so it had a very different face. It took a lot of courage for Peggy O'Mara to change it to a purely support site for intactivism and I salute her for that courage.



Frank

[QueenOfThePride]

I hope you stick around. I'm sure you have valuable advice to give, having your foreskin and growing up with three brothers the same way. Boys having foreskins is unfortunately a new thing in America, and we don't have any cultural wisdom about taking care of the intact penis. In fact, we have misinformation about scrubbing with soap, forced retraction, 'bad odor', and infections left and right.

I look forward to the day when all parents are horrified by the idea of circumcision, and those who leave their little boy's penises alone are NOT deserving of special recognition, but those who mutilate end up in jail.

[Girl Named Sandoz]

Thank you for your post Oz Daddy. I'm German and no doctor in Germany will perform routine infant circumcision (on either sex!). I came across RIC in the USA via the Internet years ago and was horrified. My son was born in Germany and is intact, of course. I am very happy to say that over the years I have given out information (via internet forums) to many expectant US parents and *most* left their sons intact, after discovering the truth about circumcision.

I do think the attitude in the US is changing but it is a slower process than in the other industrialized countries that used to practise RIC, such as Australia.

[Attached2Elijah]

Well, thank you.... not that I feel I need recognition for doing what was right but it's nice, nonetheless. The circ rate in my state is ungodly... it makes me ill to think of all those precious little boys being mutilated. I just can't understand the reasoning behind it...

After having a little brother when I was 13 and changing his diaper and caring for his circ, I vowed from that day on to never do something like that to my children. When I asked my step-mother why she did it, she said 'because our ped said that we should' and I asked why again, and she just said 'because'.... funny, even at 13 it sounded to me like she was being strong-armed into something she had no knowledge of. Left a permanent scar on me that saved all of my future children from being scarred. I worry that my step-son will go on to circ his boys because he is and his mother won't allow me to educate him on it because of her own guilt and well, stupidity... but any son of mine will be educated on it and hopefully the few momma's there are in this state not circ'ing will make waves.

Anyway, happy to see a new face and supporter.

[nd_deadhead]

Welcome to the board, Oz Daddy!

I have 11-yr-old twin boys who are intact (even though DH is circ'ed). When we talked about circ, we both agreed that it was a tradition that we didn't feel the need to perpetuate. Neither of us had ever seen an intact penis IRL (it wasn't until 2 years ago that we learned that my FIL was intact!). But we were able to overcome our "fear of the unknown" and learn how to care for a baby with a foreskin (which is no great chore, as we all know!)

Our reasons went something like this:

1. That's GOT to HURT! No one was going to hurt my precious babies without a darn good reason.

2. The foreksin comes standard - it must be there for a reason (even if we didn't know at the time what the reasons were).

3. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

4. It's a social custom that has to stop sometime - it might as well be with us and our sons!


It wasn't until later that I discovered a circ debate board, and I tried very hard to find a reason TO circumcise my sons. After all, I only wanted what was best for them, and I figured it wasn't too late. But the more I read about the so-called "medical benefits", the more I learned about the functions of the foreskin, the more I learned about how the operation is performed, the happier I became that my babies didn't have to endure that.

[dynamohumm6]

Hey thanks

My first was a girl. I had mostly left the decision up to her father if she had been a boy. He's cut. I'd like to think that when it came down to it, we would've said no, just frm the "ouch" factor, but I'm very glad I had a girl first. With my son, it wasn't a question. It wasn't going to be done. Then, I did all this research thinking I'd have to convince my dh, and I became even more disgusted and upset that this procedure is still *legal* in this country.

[LavenderMae]

Thank you! That was a very nice post. I'm one of those that left my ds perfect, all of him!!!
My dh and I have been against circ since we discovered what it was, my dh really regrets the fact his parents chose to circ him (so do I).

I look forward to the day when all parents are horrified by the idea of circumcision, and those who leave their little boy's penises alone are NOT deserving of special recognition, but those who mutilate end up in jail.

I agree!!!!

[LeosMama]

I'd like to add that much of this burden lies on the pediatric and obstetric professions, as they have considerable sway in this area and either choose not to exert it to prevent mutilation (and then perform the cut themselve$) or recommend the procedure (and then perform the cut themselve$).

What can we do? We should be targeting physicians as well as parents. The AMA and AAP have policy statements against it. Why aren't the medical schools teaching about genital mutilation and the lies of circumcision? How do we get them to do the ethical thing here?

[polka123]

why Thank you.

I learned about intactness when I was in High School & met my DD bio father - this was the late 1970s, He was intact as was his father & his father, etc. They were 3/4 gen. Germans.

So, my eyes were opened way back then.
He had 2 intact sons with another Mom

now 20-some yrs later, I have a intact son with a man that was cut . All he had to just read & see the pics of a baby being done & that changed his mind forever. I would never had circ'd anyway but I wanted him to see the horrible truth.

We dabble with relocating to Europe is the far future so DS will fit right in.

[Jenivere]

Why thank you

All I remeber is that I decided to read up on the subject during my first pregnancy. I don't know if I came across Mothering before or after the fact but I did find enough information to tell me it wasn't something we needed to do if we had a son. My husband (who is circumcised) and myself had no strong feelings either way so we decided to leave well enough alone. I'm also not sure at what point my Mother told me that my dad and brothers are intact but that also affected how I feel. Since then my husband and I have become intactivists and both feel strongly that it is wrong. My husband even recently asked me for info on restoring!

I do hope you stay, I'm sure you have a lot of wonderful information to share.

[etsba]

Hey there!
& from WA too, I grew up in Perth, made the exodus east though.

I am proud of the low rate in Australia. My sons are intact but that goes without saying. My brothers born in the mid-80's are also intact.
Most ex-boyfriends I've had, back in my straighter days have been intact(including 3 Jewish guys).

Since getting to know a lot more parents from the US I'm amazed how a lot of them do it (not just raising intact sons but also breastfeeding, etc), in the face a very hostile culture. It was easy for me to raise my sons intact because there isn't really any other way. Much harder braver are the parents fighting to change the status quo.

[njeb]

Thank you!
My sons were born in 1979 and 1987 in a high-circ. area. The only reason they escaped the knife is that I decided to give birth at home with midwives who were very savvy about circumcision, and convinced me not to do it. I was a single mom with my first, so I didn't have a dh to convince. Thank goodness my current dh was on board with me! He didn't take any convincing at all, even though he is circ'ed. That is how my second ds remained whole.

Like you and your brothers, they have had no problems whatsoever with their penises. I suspect that is true for the vast majority of intact men, but all we in the U.S. hear about are the problems. This forum is one of the few resources out there for parents with questions and problems. I'm proud to be a member, and I have profound respect for the regulars on this board.

[joandsarah77]

Hi Oz Daddy, I'm another Aussie (mum) here

I first read about circing when I was a nany back in the 1980's in our Australian Parenting magazine. I can't remeber if it was pro or con, I think back then they were trying to be 'balanced' It was the first time I had ever heard of the practice, and was like what the heck! who would want to do that to their kid. I thought they must be nuts to put a healthy baby through an op, but decided then, not my kids! I think I might have read one more article on circ between then and when I married dh.

He is circed, and I asume his older brothers are which surprised me because his father is German and his mother is English. He also has a younger brother who came along 13 years later, so i'de love to know if he's circed or not, not that I'm going to ask!

So when we were pregnant with our first dh casualy mentioned 'If the baby's a boy I supose we are going to circ" me- "over my dead body!'
I soon educated him! luckly my dh is an easy going guy, he's pretty neutril over the whole matter so he was like "whatever!" I've shown him some restoration stuff, which intrested him for about 2 seconds till he read something on what guys are putting on themselves.

Untill a few months ago I didn't even think too much about the whole issue, mainly due I supose that it never gets mentioned over here normaly. All the little boys I have seen are intact. In fact I didn't even know what the diffrence was in looks, like what to look for that would indicate a circ until recently eather. Of course now having an intact son I can spot a normal one much more quickly. Really it was getting on message boards with Americans who were discusing circ (mostly pro circ) and I quickly got educated that over there it's a huge deal! I could hardly believe my eyes when I read about 50% (is that right Frank?) are done without proper pain killers! silly me just asumed what Dr in his right mind would take a knife to a tiny little babies nether regions with a knife without full painkilling relief! How a Dr could do one, hearing the baby scream, then not be totaly sick :Puke and go on to do more is beyond me.

This is definatly the best board on intactivism on the net.
Way to go Frank!

[Oz Daddy]

More about me... Oz Daddy (I'm a poet and didn't even know it!)

Hi again everyone,

Thanks for the feedback, it's nice to finally come to a board where there are no "circumsexuals" promoting how much they enjoy their circumcised status. I couldn't care less about men who are circumcised and are happy about it. I, like so many of you, have taken it to educate others about the stupidity of routine infant circumcision.

I thought I would give you my story, sorry its very long. I was born in 1972, where the rate of circumcision here in Oz was just as high as the USA. The only reason I was left intact was thanks to my European background (yay for dad and mum's Italian/German heritage).

I grew up in a city full of circumcised boys. I first knew I was different to the others when I was 4 years old! This became obvious when I was in day care centre and I noticed other boys had a different looking penis to me. I never said anything to anyone, not even my parents.

Going to primary school and using the toilets, of course you will see other boys' penises and yet again most were circumcised. One boy even made a comment about mine looking different, but it was left at that and no teasing was done.

It was only 1 year later when I asked my mum why other boys had a different penis to me. She explained that where her parents come from, all boys looked like me and that most Australian parents did a silly thing by "cutting off some of the skin", something she vigourously opposed, even though she was born in Australia herself.

So I went to primary school knowing others who had been circumcised were the odd ones out, after all, I knew far more people lived in Europe than Oz. Fast track to high school, where I went to an all boys school. Of course, penis talk would come up all the time and there were numerous times circumcision was discussed. What was interesting is that although my generation were mostly circumcised, no one ever said that the intact penis was "gross" or "dirty". Most just accepted the fact they had the chop and were missing a part of their penis.

Fast track to the time when I now am a teacher. I end up getting a job in a prestigious all boys school here in WA. Times have changed and thanks to the media and movies of the 90's being far more explicit and open when it comes to sex, conversations about penises etc are discussed in the playgrounds far more than when I went to an all boys school.

What was amazing is that in 1993, I was actually asked by a student once if I thought that circumcision was wrong. I had to ask him why on earth he wanted my opinion. The answer was that I was young (20 at the time) and that they saw me as the teacher closest to their generation, therefore my opinion were more valid. He was intact and was trying to convince a few circumcised boys that his penis was the normal one, not theirs.

Well as you can imagine I told them how I saw this operation as a complete and utter joke and that any boy who was told by his parents that circumcision was cleaner, I had one simple comment to give you "soap and water!" How could cutting off a piece of the penis be justified for cleanliness. I told them about the article back in 1984 on 60 minutes, about the excuse to minimise masturbation etc etc.

The more I lectured the more they were intrigued. The most amazing thing is that once I had finished talking another boy said this "You know sir, I have been embarrassed that I was not circumcised for so long. After what you just told me, I am so glad that I'm not now!" My comment "Thank your parents for allowing you to decide for yourself."

Fast track to 2005, where the oldest students I currently teach are born in 1988 and the youngest 1993. Their generation are at least 85% intact, so even mentioning the word circumcision to them causes disgust on their face.

To summarize things: I grew up in a generation who thought foreskin was gross to teaching a generation who think not having a foreskin is gross.
Gee how things have changed!

[DreamsInDigital]

Originally Posted by Oz Daddy

Their generation are at least 85% intact, so even mentioning the word circumcision to them causes disgust on their face.

Oh I long for the day when this is the case here in the US. I have two intact sons and one who is circumcised and I SO regret that I didn't know about the horror of circ. in time to save my oldest son.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

I could hardly believe my eyes when I read about 50% (is that right Frank?) are done without proper pain killers! silly me just asumed what Dr in his right mind would take a knife to a tiny little babies nether regions with a knife without full painkilling relief! How a Dr could do one, hearing the baby scream, then not be totaly sick :Puke and go on to do more is beyond me.

It's way worse than that! A study by the AMA found that the only acceptable form of analgesia is the subcutaneous ring block. They also found in a survey of their members that OB/GYNs perform 80% of neonatal circumcisions, only provide any form of analgesia 23% of the time and had only used the subcutaneous ring block on less than 4% of babies. In other words, it is a pitiful few babies that don't suffer greatly at the hands of these genital terrorists. It is certainly no where near 50%.

This is definatly the best board on intactivism on the net.
Way to go Frank!

Thank you!



Frank