Need a book referral for DH

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

Hi! I've never posted on this board, so I'll give a quick intro. I've been around the Mothering boards for a while. I have a 3yr old DD and am expecting our son in April and am a sahm.

My dh is circumcised, uninformed and, therefore, wants our son to be circumcised. He said that while this is what he wants, mostly because dh is and for not wanting his son to be teased when he's older, he is open to being educated on the topic. I completely see where dh is coming from. He doesn't feel he's been cheated or traumatized in any way, he's never had a problem sexually and guys he was in the military with who were not circ'd were teased, etc. And, he's not one that will comfortable with showing his little boy how to stand up and pee, let alone why his looks different.

So, what I need is a book (I doubt he'll read more than one if the first hasn't convinced him) that will show him the physical benefits to not being circumcised and any stats, websites, etc. that will show the percentage of boys not being circed in the U.S. today. I need to do this gently, so I can't hand him anything that is "militant" about the subject. That will turn him off because, like I said, he doesn't feel he's been harmed in any way by being circ'd. And it really didn't help that we were at a dinner with other couples a few weeks ago and dh brought it up. While they didn't think it's a big deal not to be, every one of the guys is circ'd and circ'd their sons. So, please, nothing that mostly talks about how scarring it is for the man and how their ability to enjoy sex will be impeded (yet, how it will be enhanced will be a positive). Thanks for listening and for any suggestions.

P.S. Sorry if I'm one more of 100 posters to ask for a book referral w/out searching past threads. I wanted to introduce myself and explain my specific issue. Thanks, again.

[Quirky]

I can't think of a book that will really fit the bill - because the books I'm aware of do talk about sexual damage, etc. Really, you can't address the issue of circ without addressing the fact that the main harm is removing half of the erogenous tissue of the penis. Fewer nerve endings = less sensation and pleasure. It's difficult to talk about the benefits of remaining intact without the flip side coming up - the detriments of circ.

It is possible to reassure your dh that you love him very much, that you're satisfied with your sex life and his penis, but that "looking like daddy" is not a good enough reason to cut part of your baby's penis off. After all, you wouldn't perform cosmetic surgery on your baby's nose or ears to make him look more like your dh - and those are the parts that the world is going to see. No one outside your family is ever going to see your dh's and ds's penises together to compare them.

There's a Men's Health article that would probably be a good intro to the subject for your dh:

http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm (it's at an anti-circ website but was originally published in Men's Health in 1998).

You may also want to let your dh know that no medical organization in the US or the Western world (UK, Canada, Australia, Europe) recommends routine infant circumcision. The AAP terms it non-therapeutic. That means it's cosmetic surgery. Why put your brand-new baby boy through the pain and trauma of cosmetic surgery?

As far as the physical benefits of remaining intact, here's a really good website that shows what the foreskin is for:

http://research.cirp.org

[calngavinsmom]

Hi there and congrats on your son to be! I don't have a book to recomend but there is a TON of info on the sticky thread at the top of the forum "Web Resources" that is even categorized for easy perusing Also the website http://www.cirp.org is a great one for research, it is a searchable database with endless information recomended by the BMJ.

Good luck to you!

Take care,
Tara
:

[Mewsin]

Congratulations on getting a boy!!!! I'm very happy for you, I'm sure it will be quite a change after Miss V.

I don't have a book, I didn't have to convince El at all. The circ rates here are one of the highest in the country but still pretty small in comparison to the US. So I'm sorry I couldn't be more help there.

[njeb]

The September/October issue of Mothering magazine had a wonderful article on the pitfalls of circumcision, why circ'ing your baby is a bad idea. You can order it as a back issue and show it to your dh.
Good luck to you, and Best Wishes!

[polarbear]

Hi. These are not quite a benefits or rates references, but the following two sites are very good information sources from internationally recognized medical associations.


Canadian Pediatric Society:
www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (Australian):
http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/circ...on/summary.htm


One thought that may not have occurred to you. Of the guys in the military who were intact: a) The teasing may have been one comment, one time that stuck in your husbands mind. and b) has he ever asked the intact guys about it, the teasing / hygiene / inconvenience (or whatever) must not be too bad since they obviously aren’t too interested in removing the foreskin if it is still there.

To get some insight into his thought process, read some the posts around about the realities circumcised men have to face when dealing with this issue for their sons. Not as a source for your husband, but as some background for you to understand about how some men equate that to agree that “intact is better’ means that ‘circumcised is deficient’. NO man ever wants to admit that his equipment is in any way deficient, and denial is a way to deal with this.

[liseux]

I just want to add that if the baby is circed he probably won`t look like his dad at all. In our generation, babies born in 70`s & 80`s, babies were completely circumcised so there was no foreskin left at all. Nowadays because there were so many complications from too "tight" circs, they are doing them looser. Which has a whole new set of complications, mostly adhesions and other problems. The looser ones look very little like the older style, so that whole issue could be considered a moot point.

I have only seen a few of the looser circs and the ones I`ve seen have almost jagged edges of foreskin left around the glans, its like an intact boy who was retracted, but not all the way & then left like that. Does that make sense?

As for a book, if your dh likes history with a lot of facts, I think this one is great.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046...books&v=glance
It tells the earliest origins of circ and why it caught on here. It also explains that clitoredectomy and male circ were introduced at the same time, but male circ was easier and caught on. Clitoredectomy, they kicked it to the curb, thank God. But if they had both caught on, we`d be discussing leaving our daughters intact right now too and to me that shows how weird it is that we choose to cut any of our children for no medical reason.

[+stella+]

I really really like this list

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

it tells in easy to read, simple detail about all the things having an intact penis "gives" a man. its broken down really and is easy to explain to someone even if they dont read that page themselves.

It shows how it is much more than a flap of skin etc yadda yadda, and as far as the teasing goes, I am sure youre aware of how far the cast against ric has come and how much more common it will be for a boy to be intact in the coming years as well.

For the record, my husband is circed and my son is not, I dont think its going to be a huge issue, my husband has no idea if his father is or not. I dont think after initially showing your son to pee, they will have a WHOLE lot of times naked together for that expressed purpose or many others, that doesnt mean its bad to be, its just it wont be something that is worthy of putting your son through surgery for and taking away all the benefits of his whole penis.

just not worth it.

good luck to you. s

[Monkeyfeet]

Hi!
My dh felt the same as your dh until today. We have one dd. I am not preg yet, but we will be tring soon. I have been so nervous about this issue if we were to have a boy, so I have been approaching this subject a little at a time. Well yesterday at my AP playgroup someone else is now preg with a ds and we were talking about our dh's and teir thoughts about this. Well one mama said to have your dh watch a video clip of a circ. being done.

So I had dh watch this: This is a VERY disturbing video
http://www.intact.ca/video.html

Keep your speakers on!
ETA: Ahh! The 2nd half of my post disappeared!

Anyway, to sum it up quickly, right before he watched this video (I downloaded the 1 minute 42 second one). I told him to think of this child as his dd right after she was born and to remember how protective he felt of her. I reminded him half way through the video again of that. After it was done he had tears in his eyes and kept bringing up the stats that have it done. Well an hour later he said that the video has changed his mind he thinks because it was very traumatic for him to watch. I will follow this up with an article or two eventually.

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

Thank you for all your kind replies!

The September/October issue of Mothering magazine had a wonderful article on the pitfalls of circumcision, why circ'ing your baby is a bad idea.

I'll have to look for it, as I don't throw any Mothering issues away.

I have to run, but will be back to check out all the links.

Hi Jodi!

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

Monkeyfeet, that video made my crotch cringe! DH will definitely be watching that. I'm printing all the links as I type.

some men equate that to agree that “intact is better’ means that ‘circumcised is deficient’.

I agree with this. So far, telling dh that being intact results in greater sensation and sexual pleasure does not make him feel deficient in any way, since, though he believes that statement could be true, he doesn't think he's been deprived. And, all his friends at dinner recognized that intact men, supposedly, feel more. What I need to convince him of is that there are some serious health benefits, beyond sexual pleasure (but don't think he's one to not want his son circ'd so that his son won't enjoy sex more than he), to being intact and some highly statistical realities to being injured by being circ'd.

Liseu, thanks for that book referral. It might be a home run, since dh is a history buff!

[Quirky]

Well, the health "benefits" are really the flip side of the risks of being circumcised. The intact penis is normal and not subject to cosmetic surgery. So with an intact baby you don't have the risks of infection, hemorrhage, adhesions, too much skin being removed, meatal stenosis, etc. that you do from a circumcision.

Have you heard of MRSA, methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, the bacteria that is life-threatening when it causes infection because it's so resistant to antibiotics? A circumcision wound is the perfect place for MRSA to enter, and the hospital is the perfect place to contract it.

Meatal stenosis, for example, is a narrowing of the urethra that can impede urination and often requires surgery. It affects only circed boys, because the foreskin protects the urethra in the intact boy. Meatal stenosis affects up to 10% of circed boys.

There was a thread posted just yesterday here about an MDC mama's colleague who just lost her baby at 10 months old because of circumcision. He died under anesthesia for a circ repair. Death is a rare but very real risk of circumcision. In Canada just a couple of years ago, a baby bled to death because of being circed - all it takes is a tablespoon or so of blood loss for a baby to die.

Think about it this way - what are the health benefits to you and your daughter of having intact genitals? Think of if you'd been born into a female-circing culture and your dh wanted to circ your dd by removing the prepuce of her clitoris and part of her labia. What would be the health benefits to leaving your dd intact? What arguments would you make?

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by liseux

As for a book, if your dh likes history with a lot of facts, I think this one is great.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046...books&v=glance
It tells the earliest origins of circ and why it caught on here. It also explains that clitoredectomy and male circ were introduced at the same time, but male circ was easier and caught on. Clitoredectomy, they kicked it to the curb, thank God. But if they had both caught on, we`d be discussing leaving our daughters intact right now too and to me that shows how weird it is that we choose to cut any of our children for no medical reason.

OT: I remember reading a book in high school (I wish I remembered the title!) that described how parents in early America were so offended by their children masturbating that they would go so far as to tie them to their beds at night, and girls even had their clitorises burnt away with acid. No pain relief, of course, because then what lesson would they learn? :

~Nay

[Dwmama]

My dh was pro-cir. It was about 2-3 months before our son was born. My birth center gave me a book and a video. I believe the name of the book was, "A Doctor Rethinks Circumcision" or something like that. I can't remember the name of the video. But after he fliped through the book and watched the video he changed his mind.

[autumn_faune]

:

[liseux]

"Have you heard of MRSA, methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, the bacteria that is life-threatening when it causes infection because it's so resistant to antibiotics? A circumcision wound is the perfect place for MRSA to enter, and the hospital is the perfect place to contract it."
Quirky

That is such a good point. I just read that today on the Doctors Opposing Circumcision website. Staph infection is super scary, my son had one and they basically isolate your child and wait to see if the infection will be beaten naturally or not, no antibiotic works for this one. My son beat that infection and I think maybe it was the breastmilk that helped.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi.../DOC/mrsa.html

Mommy to Baby Roni, I`m glad your dh is a history buff, I think this might not be as hard as you think, he sounds pretty reasonable.