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#2 Biblical Marriage/Wife Submission Thread - Page 13

post #241 of 587
Am I the only one who think equality and submision have nothing to do with each other?

I think I am fully equal to my dh. I am as smart, as good and as pretty (ok, he is a hottie and I married way up but hes never had babies. His boobs will sag one day and he'll have no excuse .. but I digress). God loves me just as much. I do not feel like women are less than men in any regard. Nor do I think that men are any less than women. I htink we are different and have been created differently an seperately completely and fully to God's glory. I just don't see what any of that has to do with submission.

It is about being willing to bend your will even though it is just as valid. It is about being wiling to bow even though you are equals in Gods kingdom.

It can even be argued, following the whole the greatest among you should be least and the least amoung you shall be greatest, follow me here, that men are sacrificing now by being leaders and having wives who submit to them. They are giving up a plce of honor in the kingdom of heaven to thier wives by being willing to fuilfil thier role as head. Its a little twisted but a case can be made. and I think it really puts ledership in a beautiful sacrificial light. Of course this assuming the man leades graciously and lovingly. any man who doesn't will have the matter settled by God. but an unworthy men does nothing to knock the submitted and servant from thier place of honor in the kingdom.
post #242 of 587
Quote:
Am I the only one who think equality and submision have nothing to do with each other?
No! I like you feel we were created for different things. I don't ever expect him to just see something that needs done and do it. He wouldn't expect me to repair the lawn mower. (Just examples for our household. There may be a handy lady here I cartainly don't want to offend.) He is less nurturing than I am. I notice dirty diapers quicker. I can't imagine going to his job and slinging around Steel pipe and I-beams all day anymore than he could imagine staying home with our DC and handling diapers, feedings, bathtimes etc. We were perfectly matched for different things. We balance each other. That is the way I like our marriage. We rarely step on each others toes. Our home runs fairly smoothly and I attribute it to us "knowing our roles".
post #243 of 587
You are dead on. Both of you. I am smarter than my dh in many ways, but he is also smarter than me in many ways. He usually defers to me in my areas of expertise, but even when he doesn't, we discuss and debate it until we reach a compromise that we can both live with (we are debating on how long to homeschool ds right now).

For the record, my dh has never asked me to submit to him, except in joking (he did reformat my homepage to the surrenderedwife.com once). He probably has no idea that I am doing it. To him, it just feels like I am treating him with more respect than I did the first couple of years we were married- he has even acknowledged the change in me. And so he is happier and in turn treats me with more respect.

I am in this for the long haul. To focus on his negatives makes that an impossible task. I try to focus on his strengths and pray for his weaknesses. I also treat him with respect no matter what he deserves. To repay disrespect with disrespect won't make a happy marriage. I get an apology without asking every time it is deserved when I rise above him and treat him with respect. When I dish it back, he can't see past my wrongs to see his own. Make sense?
post #244 of 587
Quote:
Am I the only one who think equality and submision have nothing to do with each other?
No. I have never felt inferior because I'm woman. Choosing to be submissive was a choice I made because I wanted to live as God intended. Once my goal was to please God, becoming submissive was so much easier. I'm a first born, bossy, opinionated old hide, and if I can be comfortable with submission then I think just about anyone could.
post #245 of 587
I think for me teh real beauty of submission is whan I have to submitin the areas where I know/suspect I am better. where I know suspect I am not wrong at all. when I can take something so precious to me for wwhatever reason and offer it up to God to do with as he wants that is when submission is most victorious and it has nthing to do with my dh or me thinking he is better than me in any way or that God loves him more than me. It is all about me not being so full of myself and not always needing the best, the prefered, the comfortable.
post #246 of 587

I know what you mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
I think for me teh real beauty of submission is whan I have to submitin the areas where I know/suspect I am better. where I know suspect I am not wrong at all. when I can take something so precious to me for wwhatever reason and offer it up to God to do with as he wants that is when submission is most victorious and it has nthing to do with my dh or me thinking he is better than me in any way or that God loves him more than me. It is all about me not being so full of myself and not always needing the best, the prefered, the comfortable.
God gave me to this wonderful man. I love him I will support him in all things. He is so good at making suggestions on how to do things. He never makes a big decision without thinking about the whole picture first. Sometimes I see that he may be venturing into selfishness, but it is so rare I don't say anything. He never asks for too much. There are areas that I am a little better in than he is but I also know that I love him sooo much that I would never try to overthrow his judgement...WHY?....Chances are he has put a lot of thought into it and feels he is doing right. I am his and he is mine....I LOVE it!
post #247 of 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
I think for me teh real beauty of submission is whan I have to submitin the areas where I know/suspect I am better. where I know suspect I am not wrong at all. when I can take something so precious to me for wwhatever reason and offer it up to God to do with as he wants that is when submission is most victorious and it has nthing to do with my dh or me thinking he is better than me in any way or that God loves him more than me. It is all about me not being so full of myself and not always needing the best, the prefered, the comfortable.
And then isn't the blessing all the more sweet when it turns out you were wrong after all?
post #248 of 587
I could have written the last few posts! I too,am better at some things,so what. When I am honoring Christ,by honoring my sweet husband, I don't care who is better at what. If HE is my focus,then I am going to act accordingly. I think it is our selfish,sin nature that gets us in trouble,everytime.
Now.......there are many times I don't care if I'm selfless or not,I'm just peeved,or pms'ing,or whatever. But,what is different now is,after a little bit,when I KNOW I'm acting a donkey,God stirs my heart to repent and ask dh for forgiveness.
He is faithful!
post #249 of 587
I still have a lot of catching up to do, but I wanted to respond to this recent train of thought. Equality.....I think it depends on how you define the word. I think that we are equal in worth, in value to God. I don't think we are equal in purpose. And that is where the submission comes in. It is part of my purpose to submit my will to his. To submit my strengths, talents, opinions, etc. to his. Not that I cannot share them with him, even beseech him when necessary, but when there is a conflict, it should be my desire to settle that conflict with a submissive spirit.

I was thinking about this last night.....the moon is almost full, and it was peeking through the window, so pretty. You know how the moon's beauty does not come from inside? How all it does is reflect the light of the sun? Pretty much, it's just a big, dull dusty rock, but when the light of the sun bounces across it's face, I am transfixed. Moonstruck.

I want to be my husband's moon. I don't want to try to convince others--or myself--that I am beautiful inside; rather, I want my beauty to come from reflecting his light. I want those who know me to think that I must have been blessed with some special kind of man (and hopefully not in a "it would take a special man to put up with her" sort of way! ).

Not to say that I am falsely elevating my dh, or saying that he is the source of light by comparing him to the sun, or anything--because of course we know that God alone is the source of all light, and were it not by His grace, the sun would be dim.
post #250 of 587
to some extent I think it is better when I was right. (provided my rightwouldn't have saved us from a crisis i really can't think of a single time that has hapened, oh wait yes . . . but my insistance that I was right did almost as much harm on its own and made him harden his heart against my insistance ) Having to give up our brilliant idea in favor of someone else less brilliant but not stupid idea is good for fighting vanity and selfishness. it reinforces that most of what we cling to in this world just isn't that important.

A lame example is when a couple is going someone where and the wife insist that XYZ ia a faster route and dh says "no no abc is the fastest route." No lets say for argument she is right and she knows it. Taking xyz would vut thier trip by a full 10 minutes. Fiorst of all does it matter? NO. Is faster nessecarily better? no is 10 minutes worth the fight? heck no. Is being right worth the fight? Not for me. I do not care. Is used to care. I didn't care how we went but I wanted him so badly to acknowledge I was right.

needing to be right so badly either stems from vanity or insecurity. we do not need to be insecure just because we re submitting. It is not my dhs job to make me feel secure by feeding my vanity. It is my job to find my security in my osition in the family of God. And my security has nothing to with how smart I am, how many times I am right, or anything else. I wuld say that it does have to do with me having a submitted heart and becoming a servant to all. Funny what Christ values over the world . . .

don't get me wrong. it is a huge relief when i was wrong and e didn't do the thing i thopught was so right. Better yet is when I had the forsight to just keep my mouth closed and escaped looking like an idiot

submiting is like tow equally good violinist. They can choose to both take the first vioin peice. fight and argue and finally both play it (pretty : ) or one can decide who cares if I am first violin, take the second part and be a key instrument in beautiful harmonies. (pretty ).
post #251 of 587
Harmonious...ahhhhhh. Beautiful music. I like it. Just a little FYI that means something to me. DH and I have now been together four years. Our annaversary is in six months but it is officially four years since the beginning of our relationship. YAY. WooHoo Yippee. We actually get to go on a DATE tomorrow to celebrate. Not too many of those with two babies. Most folks get a little weird about that one. Thanks to the work of the Lord in our lives and me not kicking against submission we have had a pretty happy relationship. Down with selfishness up with Gods Blessings in our lives. (HeeHee) I love you guys. Thank you for welcoming me in here.
post #252 of 587
and a word on mutual submission.

I don't really understand what they are saying about this because I don't read the mutual submission threads. I believe we shouldall submit to everyone out of revernce for Christ. And i am sure my dh does his fair amount of sacrificing his will to mine. my pastor joked that it should be a submission competition in your homes. And for all the omwn ehwo have husbands that do that great. Submitting should be fairly easy (although I hope your dh can manage to still be strong leader and make a descision becuase they whole you choose, no you choose , its yoru call no it is your call crap drives me freaking insane. . . If you want your wife to wein then figure out what she would want and decide in that direction for the love of everythign holy!!!) For those who are married to absolute jerks. You have some choices. you could leave. you would be justified and no one would hate. but if you stay then you still need to submit. You still recieve the blesings of submission and in my opinion in greater measure. Everytime you have to bend another weed or pride, self importance, and vanity is being plucked. Hallelujah! The last year has been so hard for me. I have been truely humbled. It is not somethign I would wish on my worst enemy but at the same time I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. If my dh were constantly exulting me, lifting me up, bending to my will, pampering me, coddling me and giving me my way, I doubt i would have seen as much spiritual growth and I value that far above haveing my way all the time in my marriage or always being acknowledged as good and right and better.

So my dh is free to submit and good for women whose dh are sweet and giving and submittingt o Christ and blessing thier wives. That is nice and I am sure my marriage will be there one day and I have no doubt it is how God intended this work when everything is working right HOWEVER my obedience to God has nothing to do and in no way hinges on my dh. Sure it is nice when we are both loving and pleasent in submitting to God and being pleasing to one another but I don't realy see where the argument is coming from. you can be submitted even when your dh is nice. the question is will you still be submitted when you arte not getting way? have you really stepped down and submited your will and accepted a lwoer position of athourity or are you just compromising? are you in a give and take or have you subjected your will? Please don't anyone answer those questions. thinking questions for people who are intrested in having a submitted heart. for so long i thoguht I was submitted but it was only compromising and giving and taking. And that is nice, we both had needs met, no one got trampled on and no one was over the other (we also fought for our own way or just took it quite often when the other person wasn't willing to budge or when we didn't think they would. this is why the trampoline thing bothered me. Old habits die hard) I would give in occaisionally so long as the tally was equal. SO long as the score stayed even and we both got our way occiasionally.

being equal and being even are two different things. That is what I was trying to get at earlier. Just because the score isn't even doesn't mean dh and I are not equals. This is not a competition. No one is winning and losing. We do not even keep score much less need an even one. we are each called to different things and on different paths to different destnations accoding to Gods glory. Gods plan for refining my heart and training my responses is submission. I can see how this helps my marriage and will help me specifically in the area of spiritual growth and warfare. For the first tim ein my life I feel God is preparing me for something huge. because i have finaly submitted. I can also see how leadership can do that especially for a man. I do not want what my dh has. To take it would mean to miss what God has planned for me. This Christmas my children got nice jewlery with thier birth stone in it. the babies got braceletts and Madeline got a ringl. itis what was available and she was the only one old enough for a ring. She was so upset about not geting what her sisters had she totally missed that she got somethign better. My father gives me good gifts that he knows I will like. But if i am constantly thinking "I want what they have" I am going to totally miss it. I do not want to miss what God has for me questing after something les that my eyes have fixed on. screw even. I want more. I want to be exactly in the place God has assigned me. I want the gifts he has chosen for me.
post #253 of 587
hey fish - can I call you fish - congratulations on the anniversary. And congratulations on your date!!! we have only just recently made dating again a priority (now that everyonei s weaned ) and it is a beautiful thing. enjoy
post #254 of 587
A good book on that topic is One FLesh by Bob Yandian. It even suggests in the preface that it is a model for ALL relationships not JUST marriage. We are called to a certain level of responsibility in any relationship to be cooperative and understanding. With submission meaning "Willfull alignment" I will use an analogy I have mentioned before.....If a car has a bad alignment it takes some doing to keep it driving smoothly..IE: You have to tilt the wheel a little to keep it straight and sometimes the ride is very bumpy. I can't think of any relationship (Friendly or romantic) that I would want to fight with to "keep on the road". There's something for ya to chew on. (Smiles)
post #255 of 587

Just call me fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
hey fish - can I call you fish - congratulations on the anniversary. And congratulations on your date!!! we have only just recently made dating again a priority (now that everyonei s weaned ) and it is a beautiful thing. enjoy
You can absolutely call me fish.
post #256 of 587
So we went to counseling last night.

what a ride. this will either help or be the end of us. but at least everythingi s out there now. he usually does 4 sessions. he decided we might need more like 10. he was impressed that we were so aware about what our strengths and weaknesses are. he said most couples are wrong. (we did an evaluation thing that scores our strengths and weaknesses - its called prepare/enrich) nd we not only knew but we were both able to rank all 10 in order. And it is official and on paper we have a good sex life. yay for us.

and we can't listen to save our lives.
post #257 of 587
lilyka Bravo for you and hubby caring and loving each other enough to get counseling. Sounds like you're on the right track.
Love,
Kim
post #258 of 587

I've been praying

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
So we went to counseling last night.

what a ride. this will either help or be the end of us. but at least everythingi s out there now. he usually does 4 sessions. he decided we might need more like 10. he was impressed that we were so aware about what our strengths and weaknesses are. he said most couples are wrong. (we did an evaluation thing that scores our strengths and weaknesses - its called prepare/enrich) nd we not only knew but we were both able to rank all 10 in order. And it is official and on paper we have a good sex life. yay for us.

and we can't listen to save our lives.
I have been praying for your situation. I am in hopes that the counseling does some Godly good. Love you. Fish
post #259 of 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
This Christmas my children got nice jewlery with thier birth stone in it. the babies got braceletts and Madeline got a ringl. itis what was available and she was the only one old enough for a ring. She was so upset about not geting what her sisters had she totally missed that she got somethign better. My father gives me good gifts that he knows I will like. But if i am constantly thinking "I want what they have" I am going to totally miss it. I do not want to miss what God has for me questing after something les that my eyes have fixed on. screw even. I want more. I want to be exactly in the place God has assigned me. I want the gifts he has chosen for me.

Wow. Wow. and triple wow.

That is amazing. I will have to put this on a sticky on my desk.

My dh isn't so sweet or great at submitting right back at me. I don't mean to give some cherry-coated impression by describing the rewards when I have submitted. It is hard. I am really bad at it.

I was single for 30 years before I married my dh and a single mom for 7 of those years. I have a very hard time submitting because I am used to being in control. It is hard to pass over the reins in many ways. I love not being the boss when it comes to paying the bills or worrying about repairs, etc. I love not having to be the sensible one, knowing that he will step in to keep anything bad from happening so I can be silly and fun. But I don't love when he says no to something I want without even hearing my reasons why. I don't love when he wants to know every single dime I make in my dozens of sidejobs, and how I am spending each and every dime. We could sorely use some counseling but dh refuses to go. He doesn't think we need it and doesn't want to spend the money.

I am on a journey and I think you are light years ahead of me as far as submission to God and to dh. I am working on it. Baby steps. I can submit easily when it comes to lots of things, but I have such a hard time submitting when the children are concerned. We have such different ideas about what is best, and honestly he may be right. I am just so scared that I will do the wrong thing by my kids that I can't let go. So the best submission in those areas that I can muster is to respectfully voice my opinion and to listen to his and pray we reach a compromise. Right now I may have won one more year of homeschooling (if ds wants to), when dh would rather have him in ps asap and I'd rather homeschool him through high school.

But I am not doing whatever he says while he treats me like dirt and that is what I think people imagine when they hear submission. He is sometimes in a bad mood and can be mean, but for the most part, when I am respectful of him, he gives me respect back. That doesn't mean he says I can do what I want, but he is nice about it and at least considers my feelings.
post #260 of 587
oh man, if he ever asks to submit to no homeschooling i may well be singing a different tune . That is a tough one and one where I could easily see myself in a full force rebellion fortunately my dh doesn't ask for much anymore. I mostly struggle not to take the lead and to have a good attitude about the little things.

would he go if it were free? Our church does it for free and our pastor even offered to arrange and pay for childcare if that was something that would keep us from coming. I was shocked. It never occured to me that it would be free so I had nver thought to ask. And it is only a 4 week course so there isn't even a huge time commitment.

I will be praying for you guys. I don't know why men are so resistant to this. I think al couple should just go for something like this (it is mostly a communications skills class) every coule years or so. Like being re-certified in CPR. I wish we had gotten into counseling before our lives had to fall apart. I had been pushing for it for the previous 11 years. too bad dh was so hesitant.
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