#2 Biblical Marriage/Wife Submission Thread - Page 14

[lilyka]

Anglebee - for the love of pete clean out your instant messege box so I can fill it up again . . .

the following is completely off topic but I am impatient . . .

did we talk about some movies and diapers and such that i had on the trading post a while back? did you still want them? you can have them for shipping . . . must get rid of them . . blah blah blah . . .

let me know but if it wasn't you and you want them anyway thats good too. the goal is vacuuming the basement.

[lilyka]

another off topic post but since you mamas have shown such great wisdom in the area of marriage etc i htought I would ask you.

As you know my dh had a special friend (her name was Leanna - SF just isn't going to cut it). I have never contacted her, talked to her etc. ever. yet I feel like I cannot get over this until I have said what I need to say to her. at least given her a chance to have her say. I don't know why it is so important to me. but it is huge. I don't nessecarily want to tell her off. anymore But there are just some things I have a right to say in my defense and some things she needs to be made aware of. Stuff dh didn't say and now can't because if I find out he has made contact with her for any reason or acknowledged contatc from her his "stuff" will be used to heat our home by way of bonfire. right before I kick him out. anyway . . . rambling . . .

** I need to tell her I am not a bad person. regardles of what her or dh believed I am good and sweet and loving and most people think so.
** dh did not need a "change in situation" he needed a change in atitude.
** we were not seperated and evenif we were we were not divorced.
** Dh lied about stuff.
** I want to know if she was or still is in love with DH
** I want to know if dh knew her before he stayed with her in Canada.
** I want her to know I have the address of all her family emmbers and if she ever contacts my dh again i will write to them explaining what a homewrecker thier sweet little Leanna is.
** I need her to know that no amount of conact will be tolerated that they have proven over and over they cannot be just friends (and neither of them gets this. Dh doesn't contact her because he likes me and likes his stuff and knows I will do it but he really thinks they could go back to being just friends nd still considers her a "good friend" : yeah that about sums it up. ) and even if they could it still wouldn't be tolerated because they have done too much damage. She does still try to contact him by the way. the last time was Nov. 21 (I have an email in my draft box I wrote to her addressing it. DH told me not to send it, and he was right I was just a flaming ball of fury and she would have just laughed at me. again)

. . . You know I thought i was ready to talk to her without being ranty but I just don't know ...

I don't know what I want from her. Maybe I want to hear she had been mercilessly lied to, that she regrets it (I could believe thatuntil she last contactd him), that she is sory, I would like an apology. I won't lie. i want her to promise she won't contact him again. I want her to say she is so over him. that she foun someone else and doesn't even care about him anymore.

i want her to say dh is insane and he made up all those gushy e-mails and nothing ever really happened.

Am i being foolish to want to contact her. I was so close tonight. I had the IM window open and jsut couldn't type. I don't know why I am so freaking scraed of her. Well one thing I am scared of is that she will run to chad and tattle. I have blocked her on all but one email address (one doesn't allow blocks) and his cell phone (don't have her number) .

I need professional help don't I. why do I even care? Should I just drop it? I just feel like she owes me some sort of acknowledgement. Some sort of nod to my exiostance. She needs to know she hurt a real person with a real heart and real feelings. a real marriage. that this isn't a game. The other woman never cares do they?

ok thanks for listening.

[beccaboomom]

Well one thing I am scared of is that she will run to chad and tattle. I have blocked her on all but one email address (one doesn't allow blocks) and his cell phone

I don't know the story behind this, but why would you care if she tattles? I'm picking up from you post that your dh hasn't made it clear to her not to contact him. I can see why you would want to contact her, to have some sort of validation to the pain she has put you through and some answers. I don't have any advice, but I see you started going to counceling, maybe you could discuss the need to talk to her with the councelor and get some input there.

[afishwithabike]

I need professional help don't I. why do I even care? Should I just drop it? I just feel like she owes me some sort of acknowledgement. Some sort of nod to my exiostance. She needs to know she hurt a real person with a real heart and real feelings. a real marriage. that this isn't a game. The other woman never cares do they?

I hope your vent online helped get it out enough that you don't call her. I understand most women who go through this like closure. I get that, but...If you are trying to put it behind both of you.....DO NOT...DO NOT...DO NOT..Call her. It will make things worse. I understand that most women want to know "What does SHE have that I don't". God does not operate that way. Matt 25:40The King will answer.....Whatever you have done to the least of these you have done unto me.God doesn't see her the same way you do. God puts all of us in the same category. SINNERS! I know I am not posting the most popular opinion here but I am posting based on how God would have you handle this situation. I have seen you take the scriptures very seriously and wouldn't dream of bringing this information to light unless I kew ahead of time that you would see the loving spirit from which this is intended. I care about what happens to you and I think that if you tried to talk to her it would be like taking four steps backward. I really do care about you and your family. Sending you ((((HUGS)))).

[lilyka]

Thank you. I didn't contact her last night. I took self restraint. I did decide that what it was I wanted was to be defended. My dh never told her "Ya know I told you a lot of lies about my wife because i wanted your atention. she isn't a bad person. She is more than just a good mother. She is a good person and a good wife." He told her he was sorry to drag her into this and sory they couldn't continue with thier friendship. Sorry if all this is hurting her. :Puke For some reason I feel it is important that someone says to her hey, I'm, OK. Also part of it is crabby little kid stuff. She doesn't want me to talk to her. therefore . . . . I mean if she didn't want me to be a part of her life she shouldn't have moved in on my dh. right? You take the husband, you daydream out loud about being his kids new mommy, you also get, by default, the wife and mother. Don't want the wife and mother? stay away from married men. simple thing really.

the reason I am scared of her contacting dh is because I am not completely confident her will ignore her. I don't want either one of them to get any satisfaction from this.

its all kind of stupid really. selfish indugence. but n the other hand I feel like if I can just say something to her once all this will be over for me. Kinda like stiking my flag at the top of Mt Everast. No piont really but you do it and go home haveing done it.

So how is everyone else?

[afishwithabike]

Not bad. DH and enjoyed our date but I missed both little dears sooo much. Nobody seems to know how to take care of my little guy very well. He always sleeps all night for my but my MIL couldn't get it to happen for her. He woke up once for them. Nobody can swaddle him the way he likes except me. My poor DH has tried numerous times and it just doesn't work. He was always able to get our sweet little girl to go to sleep and she is still "daddy's little girl". I guess it sort of goes back to the fact that we balance each other so well. Love you lilyka and glad the post here was enough for you to keep from calling her. Everytime you feel like that just call on us and we'll be there. If you have to PM a rant go for it. That's why God put me here.

[whimsy]

Lillika -
You are an amazing woman! Truly.

I can totally understand your need to talk to this woman. I doubt it would be as satisfying as you think.

It sounds like your DH got caught up in a web of lies that snowballed on him. He and Leanna created an entire fantasy life that had no base in reality. I venture to say that deep down neither one of them believed anything they said or heard the other say. It was totally an escape from reality.

I must admit that I have been much too close to this myself. I was in your DH's shoes though. I had someone give me all the right attention and say all the things I wanted to hear. In order to play along with the fantasy, I had to create an alternate reality. I had to mentally convince myself that DH was someone different than who he really was. Because he didn't deserve to be treated the way I was acting.

I cannot even begin to tell you how much shame and regret I have when I think back on my actions. (which didn't go as far as your DH - but still) I get physically sick to my stomach. I have NO feelings for the OM (never did really) It was a series of little compromises that got me into a big mess. And I did feel bad that I drug the OM along my sick and twisted ride. But not too bad - he played along willingly. I think he knew that the things I was saying weren't true. I knew that he didn't really mean the things he was saying. It was just fun to hear.

I cannot imagine that I risked my life with my wonderful DH for a trip to fantasy land. It seems like it was someone else entirely. I had blocked God from my heart and Satan had a field day. God totally restored my heart for DH. I love him a thousand times more than I did when we got married. I was truly convinced that he did not love me (our marriage wasn't in a very good place before all this started) I was able to see just how much he did love me and I will spend the rest of my life making it up to him. DH never brings it up, and that makes me want to be a better wife all the more.

I wanted to share this with you because unless your DH is a sociopath, it's probably similar to what happened with him.

[afishwithabike]

the reason I am scared of her contacting dh is because I am not completely confident her will ignore her. I don't want either one of them to get any satisfaction from this.

I understand where you are coming from. I also know that an eye for an eye is not usually a viable solution. I know you are struggling with a lot of inner anger. Have you done the write a letter and throw it away trick? I did this exercise witha youth group I taught once. I asked them to put their most hated sin (ya know the one they felt the most guilty about) down on a sheet of paper. For some it was a pretty long list. I made them hold on to it throughout the entire class as I read about how Christ covered all our sins with the blood. I then started a fire (Yes we were outside) and had each one of them throw their "sins" in the fire. I informed them at that point that YES, there are still ashes left from our sins. That represented that we are to learn from those things we have done so we son't do them again. However as far as God sees it, they are no more. Maybe you could do something like this for your feelings toward the sinful experiences with your DH and Leanna. I know this is a huge struggle for you and it should be. You are a human who was hurt by a person you love and trust. Trust has been broken and now you are left to pick up the pieces of your shattered emotions. I can't say I have been through it, but have been hit in other trust areas in my life. I have been sexually abused in my past by people I knew. That is a similar betrayal in my opinion. Things like that aren't supposed to come from those you Trust. Sexual sins (affairs or otherwise) can be so crippling to people. It is that intimate area where you hope nobody will go. When it gets there it is hard to forgive and forget. I am so glad as I have stated before that you are getting counseling. I pray that all will help you repair that broken trust and you and DH can have a happy healthy marriage again. I am sending you much love.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

Nobody can swaddle him the way he likes except me. My poor DH has tried numerous times and it just doesn't work.

Swaddling is a spiritual gift I sometimes joke (between payments that is) that it was worth the $25,000 in the NICU for me to perefect my swaddeling skills. It has served me very well. Ok #2 hated it but if she hadn't so overstayed her welcome in the cramped little womb she just may have enjoyed it better. but my two winter babies dug it.

[lilyka]

whimsy - thank you for sharing that. You have no idea how much your words have helped me. That sounds so much like what my dh did. It never occured to me she was making stuff up to. I know he was. I read the emails. He even used a fake name. Maybe they really had managed to convince themselves they weren't even doing anything wrong. There was so much leading and following. If it hadn't been so mean spirited or of such serious nature against me it may have even been a little bit funny. reading the emails was almost surreal because I could see some things (maybe lie, maybe truth- he was lying to one of us) where he wanted her to say a certain thing and she would say it and vice versa. i found myself thinking on one hand "holy crap, my dh is in love with another woman" but at the same time tinking "you have got to be kidding me. this is so cheesy" and "oh hey, i think i have that in a letter he wrote me once . . .oh and that too "

I don't think i will contact her. your totally right and I have always known it. Won't be nearly as satisfying as one hopes. Thats probably the real reason why i haven't done it before. dissapointing like a fire work that fizzles out. you are expecting it to jump inthere air, make a blast and a loud boom and all you get is a little smoke and maybe a spark.

I do write her letters often and post them in my blog that no one reads. but its out there. My little shout to the universe.

[mamajama]

Lilyka, it sounds a lot like you really need closure on this one way or another. You deserve validation that you've been seriously hurt by all this. You deserve it from your husband but if it's not going to come from him then talking to a counsellor on your own would be a so good. You deserve to be listened to with respect. I can hear the pain of unresloved issues pouring through your writing.
I feel really sad for you in this situation. I've been there (well, I can't say exactly there because everyone's situations are unique) but a lot of the feelings I get from you resonate with my not-too-distant past. The way to clear the burning anger/resentment/frustration/hurt from within is for you to be able to really face those feelings head-on in a safe and supportive real-life environment where you are truly being heard.
Writing letters to her and discarding them is fine, but it's a tiny tool in the huge amount of healing work that you need to do for yourself. I know "huge amount" sounds daunting and scary. But really, it's not that much once the first hurdle is crossed. The hurdle is opening up your hurt to someone who truly has *your* best interest in mind.
Your feelings are natural and are signs of your strength. It sounds to me like you could use a bit of guidance in channeling those feelings productively on a path of healing and growth through all this.

[oldermamato5]

the wisdom pouring from you mamas is incredible. I have absolutely nothing to add lilyka,other than I am thinking of you,praying for you,and asking our awesome God to bring you peace that passes all understanding.

Kim

[SheBear]

You know, I agree with pretty much everything fish (can I call you fish too?? Pretty please? ) and whimsy said. And I do think it would most likely be an effort in futility to contact this homewrecker. At least at this point. I think your focus has to be your husband--maybe if he will come to the point where he will at least acknowledge your value to *you* then you won't need it to be acknowledged by this woman quite so much? I dunno....

What I do know, though, is that there *is* a time and place for righteous anger. Be ye angry and sin not.....you can be angry and even act on that anger in a righteous way. I think in your shoes I would probably draw a line somewhere.....say maybe "If this homewrecker ever attempts to contact my dh, or interact with my family ever again (unless it's with a sincere apology), I will bring her world crashing down upon her head."

And I would do it, too. I'm thinking that Christ prolly did more than swat at flies with that scourge he made, you know?

I totally agree with fish that God sees this woman in a way that you cannot. Perhaps she is a child of God--if so, she will be held accountable for her part in all of this. And I'm all in favor of leaving vengence to God. But there is a point at which you have every right--perhaps even an obligation--to stand up and fight for your family, fight for truth and honor and marriage and Godliness and everything else that these two made a mockery of.

And I just can't encourage you to submit to her shenanigans IF she continues to try to invade your sacred fortress. I hope that she won't--I hope she just quietly fades into oblivion and someday the mention of her name will cease to cause a knot in your stomach. And that's possible--God can do that!

But if I were you, I'd have my defenses ready. I'd know exactly when, and how, to use them. I'd make it clear (to your dh) just exactly how you intend to defend your family if the need arises (ie, if he does not defend you as he ought). And then I'd sit back, love your family, honor your dh, get on with your life, and if this silly jezabel does do something extremely foolish, then I would hold her accountable in a way she would never forget.

But that's just me....

[Lisa P]

Oh Lilyka...I am so sorry you are having to deal with the fallout from your DH's fantasy tour. I too was in a similar situation. I wanted SO badly to attack the other woman - you have NO idea. In my case (and I recount this for your benefit but for mine too....I haven't spoken of it for such a long time) dh's high school sweetheart came out of the woodwork 5 weeks after we got married. She was "the one who got away" as far as he was concerned...it was all down hill from there. DH and I were getting settled into the marriage thing and really butting heads as we tried to figure out what our new roles were. And she was right there to prey on his insecurities about the new marriage.
He let me read every e-mail and IM with her (hours a day of that crap...very little of it benign) thinking if he was "open and honest" about it I couldn't have a problem with the two of them "just talking." But it never ends there in these kinds of situations. This went on for months. He wrote her love letters, they spoke for hours a night on his cell phone, she talked of leaving her husband, she sent him gifts, she flew to see him in CA when he was working there. He swore nothing happened but, even if, an emotional affair is still an affair. He cried over his love for her. Over his lost opportunity. I cried, and tore my hair, and pled, and begged... nothing changed his heart to see how wrong his actions were. He actually convinced himself that since she was in a bad marriage, he was counseling her and doing the Christian thing by not turning his back on her. <Gag> He refused counseling too. To this day he maintains his belief that he did nothing wrong.

The day she flew to see him in CA was the infamous Sept. 11th. Never in my life have I wished so hard for a particular plane to go crashing to ground! :

Finally, I gave him an ultimatum that he was to have no contact with her. He agreed. OR did he... I came home early one day from work to see him penning a 6 page letter to her ...he had a secret e-mail address too...and changed the address for billing statement on his cell phone. I sat there impotently because I had never really intended to walk away. Those things don't work unless there is force behind them. And it is the force of the actions that support such choices that actually does the final breaking of a marriage rather than begins to heal it. who ever heard of an ultimatum being met with a "Oh my goodness! YOur right! How could I have been so stupid?!??"

I realized the the only way she would be out of my life was for him to wish her to be. The only way that was ever going to happen was if he loved me so much that he would do absolutely anything to see me happy. So I served and I served and I bit my tongue. More than a year later he finally told her he would no longer be calling her and that she was on her own...without my prodding or insistence. Right result, but leaving a field of destruction behind him...

The aftermath? I was wrecked. I didn't trust him (I still don't in the absolute total way I should...the way that would allow me to love him most and best). I still wonder when, not if, he will betray my trust again. Our marriage is so much stronger, so much better than it was even before this woman arrived on the scene and yet I know there could still be more.

I wanted to get this woman out of our life. When she came to CA I drove to where my dh was staying (his parents house while they were in Europe) to confront this woman. Dh was still playing the "open and honest" game and I was dying. I met her. I had to eat dinner with her. My choices were to accompany them everywhere, or to let them be together alone. Talk about pain. I was truly the third wheel as I watched them hold hands and reminisce. :Puke
She was in a terrible marriage (according to DH). I actually pled with her, through my tears , as she packed to leave, to leave dh alone. That he was fixated on this old high school "could have been" feeling and it was ruining our marriage because she was willing to entertain it. It empowered her. She redoubled her efforts. She enjoyed seeing me get worked up about it. It was sick.

Contacting the other woman wont help. It takes a certain kind of person to be one half of an adulterous equation. I mean this both about my husband and about Her. It takes the kind of person who can rationalize their actions, who can twist reality to support their actions, who can meet the responses of others with indifference or dismissal convincing themselves the response is out of line. It takes someone who is blinded to God by self-interest.

I have written so many letters I didn't send. I have cried so many times for unhealed hurts. Time will pass, but the scars will only fade. They will never truly go away, in my opinion. What remains is a wife and a husband and a duty to each other and to God. I said my marriage is infinitely stronger now than it was then - and it is. Despite my pain, I realized there was so much I was not doing at the time that allowed dh to rationalize looking elsewhere for female support and attention. I was not submitting, I was obstinate, I was not taking on any of my responsibilities as a wife other than sex. I was not his helpmeet but a hindrance, an albatross, another thing to worry about. I was not a joy to him when he came home. I was a harpy. As much as I can recognize the error of my ways, as much as I have done to change these things, it doesn't help the hurt. Talking to the OW won't either. It will only piss Dh off...as it did mine. It will get better, Lilyka. Your commitment to your Dh shines through your posts like a beacon. He will see it and he will cleave to you. He may never apologize in words (mine didn't) but his actions will speak for him as you continue to repair things.

I write about it dispassionately now, but it is still so painful if I think too hard about it. (And I'm crying as I re-read this) We have been married now for almost 5 years. It doesn't get easier, it just gets further away. And I become more entrenched in my dedication to fulfilling God's will for me as a wife. Without everything that happened, I likely would not now be the wife am. I would have missed the lesson on humility and biblical submission in its entirety.

Sorry for the tome... to all you wonderful women!

[DebraBaker]

Guys,

On one hand, I admire your self control and your ability to be humble and loving to your dh's in spite of what has happened but, on the other hand, I am very grieved at what I've been reading (and keeping my big mouth shut) over the past couple of days.

I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

There is such a thing as emotional adultry I don't know if it's breaking the law but Jesus did say if you lust in your heart you have lusted.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.

I'll try to keep quiet but I will also be praying for you as well.

Debra Baker

[afishwithabike]

You won't get much crap from me

Originally Posted by DebraBaker

Guys,

On one hand, I admire your self control and your ability to be humble and loving to your dh's in spite of what has happened but, on the other hand, I am very grieved at what I've been reading (and keeping my big mouth shut) over the past couple of days.

I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

There is such a thing as emotional adultry I don't know if it's breaking the law but Jesus did say if you lust in your heart you have lusted.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.

I'll try to keep quiet but I will also be praying for you as well.

Debra Baker

I appreciate a good non-submissive point of view from time to time. Not every woman has the same convictions. I admire that you at least have convictions and stand up for what you think is right as far as God is concerned. We are all believers and shouldn't always argue about the doctrinal issues that seem to constantly tear believers apart. Love going your way DB

[laralou]

Originally Posted by Lisa P

It empowered her. She redoubled her efforts. She enjoyed seeing me get worked up about it. It was sick.

Through personal experience (not with dh though) I have found this to be true every time. They see contact as weakness and believe that they have more of a chance than before.

I'm so sorry, Lilyka. I know there isn't anything that can ease the hurt, but this woman won't give you the closure or assurance that you are seeking. You will prove her wrong everyday that you walk with your head held high and behave like a daughter of God.

[lilyka]

wow LisaP - You are so strong. i would have beat that woman to a bloody pulp. I would have left without a doubt. You are an amazing woman.

Dh and I talked all day yesterday about me contacting her. (he brought it up) and it helped me realize what I needed. And it won't come from her. I want her to apologize. If she was sorry she would have done that by now. If she was too ashamed to approach me she wouldn't have contacted my dh again. If she thought she had ever been wrong she wouldn't have contacted him again. She doesn't get it. (he doesn't get it. he thinks it is perfectly reasonable that they could still be close friends : are they mental? absolutely mentally impared? ) I need him to acknowledge that she hurt me (still defends her as a great person and that he is the only person to blame) . all I want to hear is that yes I have a right to be mad at her and yes she owes the children and me an aplogy for what she did to us. That he holds her fully responsible for her actions. She knew and she did it anyway. but after 8 hours of going around in circles he still absolutely refused to say she was anything but a good person with a good heart and he was fully responsible. He has never once defended me like that. of course if he were to acknowledge that she hurt me he would be guilty of not defending me. of letting her doing it, providing the set for her to hurt me, and even probably enjoying the fact that she was hurting me. He can accept that he hurt me (no way around that one) but he will not admit (even to himself would be my bet) that he let, encouraged even, someone else to trash the girls and me like that.

We did come to tagreement that if she ever contatced him again I would be let loose with fury. And I don't care if he leaves me over it. But I will not only contact her but her family members, I may even track my butt up to Vancouver and have a face to face with her because this has got to end
.
And I know I would have been justified walking out of his office that day and never looking back. He wouldn't have even felt justified following me. But I would have been no less trespassed against, no less dissresepcted, no less hurt, alone, crushed, etc.. But I would be a single poor working mother. my children would have had thier whole lives turned upside down, I would have had to compromise my parenting ideals and cave on everything I hold dear. and I would have had to share them with her. :Puke over my cold hard body. but I would have been completely justified and no doubt blameless by any standard. (except for the girls - I still hold it against my dad for leaving my mom. I don't care if he spent every day of his life misreable, his children should have been worth it) I felt he owed me. and I wasn't about to let him be happy with that woman. no way. not in a million years. So maybe my original motivation was just me being pissy and possesive. I'll own that. But I do also feel strongly that some of God's blessings come from staying when you have every right to leave. It is hard for him to restore a marriage if you end it and move on.

[Lisa P]

Not strong, Lilyka. Just steadfast. Marriage is a one shot deal. I was not about to allow it to disintegrate without giving it EVERYTHING. Giving up was not an option.

(he doesn't get it. he thinks it is perfectly reasonable that they could still be close friends : are they mental? absolutely mentally impared?

Yes they are mental...and still living in a world where what they did was ok. But that doesn't change You. It is SO hard for people to truly admit their faults...especially to themselves. Its generally the one's they cannot accept in themselves that they convince themselves don't exist.

I'm glad you and dh hashed things out, Lilyka. Eventhough I wouldn't have walked out, dh needed to be scared I would. And it did help things. You are walking in God's way now and it can only get better. Besides, if you do decide to take that roadtrip to Canada you'll have at least one cheerleader riding shotgun if you'll have me

[Lisa P]

Originally Posted by DebraBaker

I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.

Thank you for your prayers Debra. I competely understand your response to the situations about which you've been reding here. But perhaps this is the crux of the matter when it comes to being a Biblical wife in this forum. It is the realization that I do not deserve anything in and of itself. No man nor woman does. Yes, feeling respected all the time would be nice, feeling understood, would be nice too. But is it my birthright? Shall I demand it? And what then? At what cost?
My birthright is that I am a child of God...we all are. Beyond that, the gifts I receive are just that - gifts given at His will, with His blessing. What happens when a child stamps her foot and demands a piece of cake, loudly, repeatedly? She might be given the cake, but for the wrong reasons (to quiet the demand, etc.). It is the same with respect. It is not a birthright. It is not damnded and then willingly given. It is earned. Just as the trust my husband desires from me is not automatically bestowed upon him because he wishes it to be so, neither is the respect I wish to be shown automatic. It is only through our day to day choices of working for eachother that the willingness to gift our spouse with those things becomes real. Yes I am called to obey and yes he is called to respect...but just as I fail in my obedience on occassion, so too does he loose sight of his obligation to love me as Christ loved the Church. We are a work in progress...both together and seperately. I obey, not to bolster his ego etc, but for God. With or without the respect he is surely asked to give me. But whether or not he does is between him and God.