#2 Biblical Marriage/Wife Submission Thread - Page 3

[Lisa P]

Continuing ...sorry....

I just have to say, I am an official follower of the Lilyka philosophy. Her posts (13 and 20) were spot on and said exactly what I would have. Lilyka, you rock!!

I just saw your post about going back to a support only thread (you put it up while I was laboring over my last post) and I agree. So, I am truncating the response I was going to leave and simply say to those who question, try reading a few things with a truly open mind...

- the Bible
- Fascinating Woomanhood by Helen Andelin (for women)
- Man of Steel and Velvet: A Guide to Masculine Development by Aubrey Andelin (Helen's husband, see above...for men)

there are many others but these are my favorites. I hope you find what you are looking for. God bless everyone, but special prayers for those who are searching...

[laralou]

Originally Posted by candiland

if you fully support someone in pure love, visualizing them as perfect, capable individuals, they will, over time, grow toward that vision. But if you wobble back and forth with fear and indecisiveness - or a "lack of faith", if you will - it will keep that person in their present state of unbalance and feed into the cycles you want them so desperately to break out of.

That is beautiful. I might have to put that on a sticky on my calendar if it is ok with you to quote you.

[2tired2clean]

Originally Posted by laralou

This is a support only forum. If you wish to debate submission, please start a thread in the RS forum. There is room in this thread for pleasant discussion of what submission is or how best to submit for women wishing to submit, but not room for debate about whether you should submit, etc.

Could someone give me the definition of support? I think maybe I am misunderstanding it? I didn't see where there was a debate on whether or not to submit, the way I read the posts was someone was asking for answers on what submission is? I really do not want to sound harsh or anything, I just want to keep this discussion going so I am trying to figure out what is support and what isn't. I am afraid this is going to sound snotty or something. Please understand I am honestly asking for posting guidance here.

[Lisa P]

Laralou, thank you for stepping in...

As far as your situation goes, its is always difficult to act opposite to how our feelings tell us we want to act. But that is true selflessness. Yes, your dh could have gotten up off the couch and done something about the christmas present painting. Yes, he could have gone out and bought different candy or allowed you to do so. Yes, he may be being a true PITA...but what to do?

When this sort of thing happens in my home I examine my actions first. I have a similar-to-the-candy-thing happen before and I realized, upon reflection, that I made Dh feel bad when I opined about the "candy." (I'm just going to call it that so I don't have to give you a huge backstory). I made him feel like he couldn't do anything right by essentially criticizing an action of his that he intended to be a giving and loving one. I also made him feel bad by wanting to go spend more money on somehting we didn't really have the extra money for...he felt like he wasn't a good provider because it reminded him of our poor finances. Nevertheless, he wanted to tell me no, despite our finances, just because I made him feel bad on the first count.

Did your candy thing happen before the painting thing? He might have been feeling similarily and decided not to paint because he didn't want you to make him feel bad by criticizing him in some way about it.
Two things I'd suggest:
1. examine your actions for anything you could have done that might have been hurtful to him. Especially regarding $...men are HUGELY sensative about being good providers, even if they don't say so directly.
2. Even if you can't pinpoint what it was exactly, apologize. Give him a heartfelt acknowledgement of his intentions (I know you bought the candy for the kids because you are a great dad and wanted to get them something sweet (Of COURSE he did...he certainly didn't buy something the kids were going to dislike on purpose)) and then an equally hearfelt I'm sorry... (...for anything I did that made you feel bad... (get more specific if you can) and end with another acknowledgement... (I just want you to know how much I appreciate everything you do for me and the kids, especially the efforts you've made at making this Christmas special for the kids).

NOW, the stage is set...
You could do one of two things:
1. Leave the candy thing alone (least risky option and the kids will have a bunch of other stuff to get excited about, candy will likely be overlooked) OR
2. Sweetly ask him he would mind if you bought one extra candy item for each of the kids just so they would have their favorite too... How could he say no?

On to the Christmas present painting...
Is there any way you can get the kids to go somewhere long enough to get the painting done?
If so, (having first apologized for making him feel bad about the painting if you did) tell him you are going to take the kids to "X's" house for the afternoon, are making lunch/dinner whatever for the two of you, and thought it would be fun to paint the presents for them together. You can get them done in time ...and maybe even have some fun fooling around before the kids come home. He will likley be suprised by your sunny attitude and change of outlook. (just be sure to get that fooling around in ...even mid-painting He'll be in a MUCh better mood ).
If sending the kids off is not an option, talk to him about making it a fun family painting activity after the presents are opened on Christmas morning. Your kids won't know you didn't plan it that way, and you and your Dh can have fun getting messy with them!...but still don't forget the fooling around bit

Hope it helps!
Merry Christmas!

[laralou]

Thanks Lisa for the specific suggestions. I am going to try number 2 and see if I can buy just one thing more (something small) that he will like. If not I will let it go. We don't do much candy, so it will most likely be overlooked. I think I am smarting a little from losing control, but honestly I have been taking over quite a bit so this is likely his way of trying to take control back. I needed that reminder. Now that I am typing it I am seeing that he just needed to feel in charge of something so I am going to totally let it go instead of trying anything.

The painting thing is that he hates to paint and I said I'd do it this week before I knew how sick my cousin was (he passed away yesterday morning). I didn't know I would be out of pocket this whole week. I did with a great attitude paint the first coat last night (despite having been up with zero sleep for close to 40 hours. I told him I wouldn't let it go without getting done because I know it stresses him (he has lived with me long enough to know I can procrastinate to the last minute).

Your post helped me get some perspective. It is easy to see him as a jerk instead of trying to figure out why he is acting the way he is.

[laralou]

Originally Posted by 2tired2clean

Could someone give me the definition of support? I think maybe I am misunderstanding it? I didn't see where there was a debate on whether or not to submit, the way I read the posts was someone was asking for answers on what submission is? I really do not want to sound harsh or anything, I just want to keep this discussion going so I am trying to figure out what is support and what isn't. I am afraid this is going to sound snotty or something. Please understand I am honestly asking for posting guidance here.

I don't think you are coming across as snotty by asking. I looked back over your posts and you don't have anything to worry about. When people are coming into a thread like this who don't agree with submission and ask questions that are designed to invalidate the idea of submission, that is not support. When someone comes in who doesn't understand submission and wants to know more, that is different. I think we are able to pretty well understand ourselves on what we hope to accomplish in this thread. If you hope to invalidate the idea of submitting, you shouldn't be in the thread. If you hope to better understand the idea, you should. Does that make sense? It is more of a matter of intent than of asking questions. Now the RS forum is just for the idea of debating the validity of things like submission or whether having sex when you aren't in the mood constitutes rape. The "rape" discussion would belong here only if the person asking was wanting to submit but didn't have a clear idea on how or what that meant in terms of sex, kwim? Clear as mud right?

We created the RS forum to give people of different beliefs a place to debate the validity of other beliefs. The Spirit forum is for support among those who share beliefs.

[2tired2clean]

Originally Posted by laralou

Clear as mud right?

Ok thank you! I just wanted to make sure I understood it right.

[Lisa P]

Originally Posted by laralou

I think I am smarting a little from losing control, but honestly I have been taking over quite a bit so this is likely his way of trying to take control back. ... he just needed to feel in charge of something so I am going to totally let it go instead of trying anything.
.

I KWYM...I too have a tendency to try to control things... its so much easier than recognizing my weakness and realizing that I'll come out ahead in the long run if I just let it go...

Originally Posted by laralou

(he has lived with me long enough to know I can procrastinate to the last minute).

you and I must be peas in the same pod... I am SUCH a procrastinator it isn't even funny. It drives my type-A dh up a wall.

Originally Posted by laralou

Your post helped me get some perspective. It is easy to see him as a jerk instead of trying to figure out why he is acting the way he is.

No problem. We try to do it with kids...why not our spouse? I fully expect you (and everyone else on this board) to give me a gentle wake up when I need it.

[lilyka]

(((((lauralou)))))

take a deep breath and tell youself three times "this is not that important. peace on earth (starting in your heart) good will towards *men* ( including ones being poopy.)"

Its just candy. is it the only gift your child is getting? is it the only candy your child wil get this year? I doubt he will even notice much. what is more important , one gift not being right on but a peacful happy mom and dad, or the right candy with grumpy parents. let it go. it is just a little candy.

dh siting around on his bum. Ok maybe he wasn't feeling quite up to par, maybe he thought you didn't want him touching the gift. maybe he just didn't think about what you did or didn't want at all. who cares. done and over. It will get done. . . . and so will the gifts I am making . . . if we can all just get of the blasted computer . . . . . . . gotta go!

(and thinks for putting on your mod hat for a moment )

[AngelBee]

Glad to see things back on track

[Lisa P]

Originally Posted by lilyka

(((((lauralou))))) peace on earth (starting in your heart) good will towards *men* ( including ones being poopy.)"

Just for clarity...
It's "Peace on Earth to men of Good Will."

This is one of a few oft mistated tidbits, the mistating of which really gets to me. ...not you Lilyka...just the sentiment! Kinda like the mistatement of "money is the root of all evil" ---> "LOVE of money is the root of all evil"

...Don't mean to be a smart a$$. Have a great evening all.

[janerose]

I'm so happy a new thread got started!

So many great points have already been brought up. I'll just say that all you ladies rock! It's sooo wonderful to have a community like this for support.

Yesterday was a turning point for us. I've been in charge of our finances for most of our life together. There was a period of about 6-12 months where DH took them over (and did an excellent job, btw), but mostly it's been me for the past 9 years. As I've been progressing in my walk as a submitted wife I've *really* felt God telling me to turn the finances over to DH.

This was difficult because: 1) I'm a total type A control freak & DH is generally much more laid back & tends to procrastinate. 2) DH had NO interest in taking the bills. In fact, me doing them was what he wanted. 3) Our finances aren't in the best state right now & I was carrying A LOT of guilt & fear over it. After all, I'm the one who does the bills/manages the money so if there are problems it's all on me right? Guilt & fear to the point where I was afraid to talk to DH about the situation. My flesh got going and all I could think was how angry he'd be, that he'd be disappointed in me,

Anyway, our finances came up yesterday because DH was going Christmas shopping & needed to know how much we had to spend. Long story short, I ended up telling him everything and he has agreed to take over managing the money starting next month! He asked that I write everything down, get stuff in order for him a bit, and he'll start doing them.

He wasn't upset that the check book wasn't balanced, some stuff hadn't been paid, etc. In fact, when I started with the whole "I just feel so bad because I'M the one responsible for the money & it's all messed up..." bit he jumped right in and accepted his part of the responsibility. He also acknowledged that I have been trying to tell him this for awhile & he has been tuning it out because he just didn't want to deal with it either.

This is such a huge weight off my shoulders. He is going to give me a set amount every payday & that will be what I have to cover groceries, household stuff, clothing, pets, etc. I'll also be getting a small amount for personal spending money. Although I expect that most of that will go to tithing since DH won't tithe off our gross income. I will tithe off my grocery/personal budget though & have made peace with that decision. After all, I'm not responsible for DH's decision not to fully tithe. That is between him & God.

Anyway, to top it all off, right after we had this conversation I was doing my daily Bible study & here's the verse I came across:

"There is no fear in love, but full-grown love turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear brings with it the thought of punishment, and he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love." I John 4:18

Ladies, I read that and I just laid my head on the kitchen table & cried. I had been SOOOO afraid what DH was going to say/do when he finally found out about everything. Relief, joy, pride in my DH having a better attitude than I did about the whole thing, and so much for God that he heard my prayers and worked everything out. Even to the point of my study that day being a gentle reminder that because DH & I love each other there isn't room for fear in our relationship.

Sorry this got so long, but I just can't believe this has finally been resolved!

Anyway, don't know if anyone else is going through something similar, but there's hope if you are.

Holly

[FuelJetA]

I just wanted to say 'hi' to all you wonderful women and wish you all a merry Christmas!
My DW has been keeping up with this thread for sometime now and has read so much great stuff and I just wanted to say thanks b/c our relationship has just gotten better for it. I have more to say and a few people to whom I would like to respond, but I can't right now. Looking forward to more thoughts.

[bamamom]

Holly...that's fabulous!!

[afishwithabike]

Do any of you?

Do any of you ever feel that if you didn't interject your opinions your family would fall apart? Seems as though DH takes a lot of my suggestions and does them. Yay!! He really is a smart guy but sometimes I can add a perspective he hasn't thought about. (Well, that's what he tell me anyhow) I just think about the scriptures in Genesis that talk about Sara giving advice to Abraham regarding what to do with Hagar and Ishmael. Those scriptures are so helpful for a submissive woman. If you have not read them I hope you get the chance. Okay so here's what I have been doing and I am challenging you to do so as well. Read Prov 31 and I think it would be fun if we sort of discussed it on here. I really think it would help us all to see what God wants us to be and it would be a blessing to our DH's to see us modelling what God wants us to be. PM me if you are in.

[AngelBee]

Just wanted to drop in and wish you all a Merry Christmas

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Zombiewaif

Do any of you ever feel that if you didn't interject your opinions your family would fall apart?

Yes but often that is just pride and selfishness driving those thoughts. The control freak in me.

He is jsut as capable and smart as I am. we both have plenty to contribute but in the end I need to step b ack and let him lead.

I just think about the scriptures in Genesis that talk about Sara giving advice to Abraham regarding what to do with Hagar and Ishmael. Those scriptures are so helpful for a submissive woman.

I have really good book. it talks about how someone went to King davis and spoke her mind strongly while still being the picture of submission. I will get a scripture reference one day (post holiday brain fog). I cannot remember the name of the book but the auther is Michel Farris oh! The Sacred Foundation It is good read. geared towards homeschoolers but very good either way.

[janerose]

Originally Posted by Zombiewaif

Do any of you ever feel that if you didn't interject your opinions your family would fall apart? Seems as though DH takes a lot of my suggestions and does them. Yay!! He really is a smart guy but sometimes I can add a perspective he hasn't thought about. (Well, that's what he tell me anyhow) I just think about the scriptures in Genesis that talk about Sara giving advice to Abraham regarding what to do with Hagar and Ishmael. Those scriptures are so helpful for a submissive woman. If you have not read them I hope you get the chance. Okay so here's what I have been doing and I am challenging you to do so as well. Read Prov 31 and I think it would be fun if we sort of discussed it on here. I really think it would help us all to see what God wants us to be and it would be a blessing to our DH's to see us modelling what God wants us to be. PM me if you are in.

I'm in! Maybe we should start a new thread though if there's a lot of interest so that this one doesn't get crazy long? Just an idea.

Holly

[2tired2clean]

I think that would be great I am in!

[AngelBee]

Everyone pop over to the Proverbs study

I am interested to hear what you all think