#2 Biblical Marriage/Wife Submission Thread - Page 25

[lilyka]

well then if he just wants youto remind him in the car that seems easy enough.

like I said having the note for me isn't a stretch. i can't remember my kids names. so it is there for me and obvious to him.

[lilyka]

ok so i was attacking my garden today with gusto, and was reflecting on submitting (I was contemplating making my cucumbers and melons submit to thier confines while flurishing).

but the question that came to my mind was concerning atitude. So the situation comes up where we feel like we know better than dh but being the submitted people we are, after all we chose this, we do as dh wants. Knowing he isn't going to completely screw us over. it just might not be the best. how does our heart, mind and actions respond. Is it ok to have the attitude of "well I am right but I am going to submit because i rock like that" (take a guess how i feel ) what if we have that attiotude in our head/heart but we are skilled and our actions don't betray us? is that any better? how do we get to a place where we can let go of this silliness and think: his idea may be better than mine? equal to mine? have benifits that mine doesn't have? maybe he can see/is considering things that aren't even on my radar?

any thoughts?

[afishwithabike]

I know in our household submission is a two way street. He understands the scriptures and respects them. For us it is mutual submission as opposed to a one sided submission as modeled in front of me by my parents. We share ideas thoughts and concerns. He is the FINAL say on decisions in our house but we both input. Usually the final decision has the best parts of what he stated and the best parts of what I have stated. When the final is what he has said ONLY I simply say okay and pray that my heart will soften and I will not get mad if something goes wrong. I pray against the "I told you so" attitude. I pray that I can take the supportive role and offer a solution instead of elevating the problem.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

I pray against the "I told you so" attitude.

ahh yes, I had forgotten to mention that one.

[afishwithabike]

Humility is something I have to work on continually. It can be difficult at times not to just say. What did I say? Huh? Remember? I remember saying this would happen, Do you remember that?

I don't though, because as I said before What good would it do?

I say it in my head instead. HeeHee.

[Clarinet]

I've been reading this, but I can't go through nearly 500 responses so please forgive me if this has been asked and answered.

I would love to submit, give my husband head of the household and let him gather our thoughts and make the final decision, but I have always had to do this because my husband acts irresponsibly (spending way too much money frivilously and not being able to pay bills, disrupting the kids' schedules by poor planning and I could go on and on). He even wants me to get a job (which I'm not against) but for the wrong reasons - just to start earning my "share" in the marriage because he doesn't feel like taking care of the kids and the house and him is enough because there's no money coming in from that. My question is, how do I (I don't even know what word to use here) encourage him to take a leadership role in our marriage? I feel like I carry this family while he's trying to maintain his single status and we've already agreed to part ways when the baby turns one in July but in my heart, I really don't want that to happen. Are some men just destined to not lead their families? I think if we could get to those kind of roles in our lives, our marriage would go a lot smoother. Are there too many issues here? Sorry this has turned out so willy-nilly.

[afishwithabike]

His leading comes in relying on you for the responsibility role. If he doesn't want to lead and would rather you do it then he IS leading. It is his say as to who is in charge of what. I do the finances in our family mostly because I am home. I care for our two little ones at home, but I do babysit so I can bring a little extra $$ in. That is our arrangement. I like it this way. The daycare can be a bit much at times but it's okay. He doesn't care if I need to get out from time to time and do things on my own. He's really supportive.

[Clarinet]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

His leading comes in relying on you for the responsibility role. If he doesn't want to lead and would rather you do it then he IS leading. It is his say as to who is in charge of what. I do the finances in our family mostly because I am home. I care for our two little ones at home, but I do babysit so I can bring a little extra $$ in. That is our arrangement. I like it this way. The daycare can be a bit much at times but it's okay. He doesn't care if I need to get out from time to time and do things on my own. He's really supportive.

I never thought of it this way. We're going in two seperate directions, though, because he's left me to do everything while he does his own thing without the family most often and he's not willing to let me do anything on my own at all. I feel that "submission doesn't mean you're a doormat" doesn't apply to him. Really, hit me with the truth - does it sound like I am just resisting? I feel that way sometimes but I get tired of having dinner ready and he's two hours late without calling and I'm not expected to say anything about it. Or scheduling family time (like this coming Saturday) and he makes plans with his friends instead so I'm left alone with the girls again. Or he buys another car to fix up when we have two in the garage already and we really can't afford it. I feel like he's rebelling sometimes, but the more I submit, the more using and controlling he gets so I guess I rebel, too and I feel like that's not what it's supposed to be about. Maybe I'm just getting it all wrong. Is there some kind of reference anyone can give me about the process?

[afishwithabike]

Actually I really got most of my life instruction in this dept from book called One Flesh by Bob Yandian. I tell EVERYBODY about this book.

As far as some of your questions go.....I do understand your Not wanting to be a Doormat and I completely agree. DH has his selfish moments and I have my Hey why aren't you helping moments as well. It is a matter of learning. Is there a chance you could take a marriage class together or something like that? NOT counseling but a marriage class/seminar with OTHER couples. Usually the interaction with other couples can help in a situation such as this. Many marriages have their own set of issues. If you were able to network with other couples you may be able to help yourselves as well as others. It's ALL about strengths and weaknesses.

[lilyka]

first you have to step out of the leadership role. until you step down he cannot step up. I will be chaos. it will be uncomfortable. Some things might have to come crashing down. you'll live. So what if the kids schdules get messd up a little. so what if the phone gets turned off. eventually it will all become rather inconvienient and he will want his life back.

if you are not opposed to going back to work (and I would suggest even if you ar, but especially since you are not) why not go. showhim you trust his leadership skills. by taking control of everything it sends a mesege that you don't trust and respect his leadership skills. If his very wife doesn't how then can he? Once you stop handeling everything at home he will hopefully realize how much you were doing.

I has to do this. it has not been pretty. It has been a year and dh is finallystarting to at elast see how checked out he has been. He is not even close to checking back in really.

now I am not saying just drop everything and refuse to do it. but stop complaining about how money is spent. if it isn't there it isn't there. his problem. ask him if he wants to take over (my dh used to be really bad with money until he took over. his spending really went down when he took over - afraid my attitude wasn't the best when I told him to "take care of your own stinking messes from now on" ) and if so hand it over. come to agreement about your budget (letting him have input of course) and leave everything else up to him. if he wants you to handle show him what youhave come up with and ask what he thinks. Does he see any areas that can be improved on.

treat him better than he deserves. men tend to rise to the occaision in the face of truely being honored and respected and loved. find something to respect ad respect the heck out of it. it need not be false adoration. Do you have food on the table? does he beat you? your children? run around with other women? you can always respect those things (that apply) up the hooha.

but most of all ask and recieve his opinion on everything. take his advice. even if he still wants you to handle everything. listen, really listen to what he is saying. forget about philosophies, and studies and every justification you think you have for being right and just listen to his side of the story. And just hear him. you don't need to prove him wrong. you don't need to making notes and preparing arguments in your head. man really want to be listened to.

gees there is so much to sy here but mostly you have to stop controlling everthing. if he doesn't step up right away that is ok. not everything needs to be handled and controlled. Sometimes things can just fall apart for a while. but he will never step up so long as someone else is there occupying his spot.

[PrincessDoll]

Hi, I just popped in because I liked the title to the post but dang, this post is looong. I don't think I can get through it all. Is it ok if I just start in on the conversation from this point on? lol

[lilyka]

jump right in

[PrincessDoll]

Thanks:-) I will as soon as I see some more posts!

[afishwithabike]

I know it was hard for me to get caught up in the old thread. I have found that if you read current topics then go back a few pages it helps to see where everybody is coming from.

DH and I have been dealing with a LOT of stuff this week. We are trying to keep the house clean and the puppy that DH begged to get has NOT been getting the concept of pottying outside. It is really getting annoying that I am CONSTANTLY cleaning up messes. I NEED to get a carpet cleaner so it doesn't get out of hand. I am trying NOT to get frustrated with DH over this BUT he makes excuses for the puppy. He however is NOT very helpful paying attention to the pup and getting her out on a regular basis. Any ideas?

[lilyka]

we have been going through crap this week also. I have to say I have not been the poster child for submission or meek and gentle spirit. The other woman contacted me and asked me to take her off my contact list and went on a rant about how dare she ask me for anything . . . if she didn't want me in her life she should have refrainded from falling in love with my husband. . . . blah blah blah tantrum tantrum tantrum . . .plus he didn't come hom for easter, didn't go to church with us, didn't hide any egs and barely showed up for dinner with his family. AND I feel like crap. i talked to him he said he was leaving. we got tired of wiating and I called him again and he still hadn't even left . . so long story short we were sitting down at the table and there just isn't enough room so its kinda like a puzzle. as we were figuring out how to make all the girls happy with allthe "I want to sit by" talk, dh got stuck right in the center of the back. DFIL says "won't it be hard for dh to get back there after we have all sat down, and I snap back "well he wouldn't have to worry about that ifh e had been on time now would he." Could I not have been a supportive loving honoring wife for 5 more minutes. that comment was humiliating and disrespectful to my dh even though he wasn't there to hear it. I feel awful about it. And he has started on his crazy hours (9AM - 3AM on a good day. twice he has just worked through the night) and that makes me crabby and everything just sorta crashed together at the same time. and we have been fighting for about 4 days streight. he said he thinks he can stay married to me if we more or less avoid each other. So there is my sad life for the next . . .good heavens we will probably live to be 102.

[mamajama]

When the relationship is unhealthy, and you are attempting to submit to it, you are making yourself sick too Lilyka please get some help on your own...for yourself. This just can't go on. I am truly saying this with the best intentions and a lot of care.
Submission is fine, if the person you're submitting to is on your level...but this is not the case with you.

This submission thing is simply making you feel guilty for not fulfilling an impossible task. It's so futile and unfair. I hate to see you blaming yourself for having natural emotions. No wonder they pop out at inapropriate times, how can they not when you work so hard to bottle them up? If they didn't pop out at least once in a while, you would lose it. And if you keep fighting to suppress them, you can become very, very ill. I'm worried for you and I care.

This man is not deserving of your submission at this point in his life.

[thistle]

Originally Posted by lilyka

we have been going through crap this week also. I have to say I have not been the poster child for submission or meek and gentle spirit. The other woman contacted me and asked me to take her off my contact list and went on a rant about how dare she ask me for anything . . . if she didn't want me in her life she should have refrainded from falling in love with my husband. . . . blah blah blah tantrum tantrum tantrum . . .plus he didn't come hom for easter, didn't go to church with us, didn't hide any egs and barely showed up for dinner with his family. AND I feel like crap. i talked to him he said he was leaving. we got tired of wiating and I called him again and he still hadn't even left . . so long story short we were sitting down at the table and there just isn't enough room so its kinda like a puzzle. as we were figuring out how to make all the girls happy with allthe "I want to sit by" talk, dh got stuck right in the center of the back. DFIL says "won't it be hard for dh to get back there after we have all sat down, and I snap back "well he wouldn't have to worry about that ifh e had been on time now would he." Could I not have been a supportive loving honoring wife for 5 more minutes. that comment was humiliating and disrespectful to my dh even though he wasn't there to hear it. I feel awful about it. And he has started on his crazy hours (9AM - 3AM on a good day. twice he has just worked through the night) and that makes me crabby and everything just sorta crashed together at the same time. and we have been fighting for about 4 days streight. he said he thinks he can stay married to me if we more or less avoid each other. So there is my sad life for the next . . .good heavens we will probably live to be 102.

Lilyka, I am sorry you are going through such a rough time. Please do not feel guilty for your husband's behavior. It is not your responsibility, he has his own free will. He is not holding up his end of the bargain. " Husbands, love your wives even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it;" Eph 5:25 It is his duty to set the standard of holiness for your family.

[DebraBaker]

I am really feeling for Lilyka right now and I am just about sick of swallowing the bile in the back of my throat every time I read of *her* feeling bad for her butlick husband and everyone on this board supporting the codependent unbiblical submission stance here that is doing nothing but feeding into what even the most casual observer could readily identify as abuse.

If there is to be wife only submission (and I would say Lilyka's husband is a good arguement against the entire notion of wife-only submission,) there should be some mechanism in place that would metaphorically kick Lilyka's D(not for dear, I cannot bring myself to think that)H in the proverbial ass and allow poor dear sweet Lilyka some justice in this world.

Or we, as Christian folk, are nothing better than oppressers using G-d's word to serve as enablers of abuse (and Heaven forbid that.)

I have been monitoring this thread long enough. I have suffered under people who taught wife-only submission and blamed every single abuse on my husband's part on me.

This is sick.

It is unhealthy.

It is unChristian.

And I have spoken my mind.

Debra Baker

[mamajama]

That was really well said Debra. I hope that it comes across as real SUPPORT for Lilyka and countless other women in her situation who may be reading or participating in this thread. I know that is the intent.

Wife-only submission is not a perscription to ail an abusive or ailing marriage.
It can, however, be a choice partners make as a flourish atop a bedrock foundation of trust and respect. Without the foundation, the person submitting is doing damage to herself. How do you get low enough to be *underneath* belittling and disrespectful behaviour? You do so by chipping away at your own self-esteem and confidence. And god did not make people to live like that. I believe we were made to shine and represent our unique gifts.

Lilyka, it is obvious that you posses many gifts. You're a loving thoughtful person. You possess a lot of strength as evidenced by the stalwart way in which you've worked to maintain normalcy within your relationship. You've used an emmense amount of willpower to stay with the man you married. You have a great capacity for love and honour. In order to benefit you and your family with the gifts you have been given, you need to channel them toward a worthy goal. Enabling your husband to live a selfish life is not a job worthy of your gifts.

[Changed]

Right on Debra. Great post.



Lilyka, please hear these women. Please consider what you are modeling to your babies. This is not right. Do you have someone to talk to?