Hep B shot for Hep B positive mother? - Page 3

[Jen123]

[Jen123]

Originally Posted by phathui5

We are a non-vaxing family.

If I had Hep B, I would vaccinate my children for it, asap.

Why ?

[phathui5]

Because of the possibility that it would keep them from getting it. Because living with (and especially being carried and birthed by) someone with Hep B carries a great deal of risk of being exposed to it. Because Hep B isn't like having a cold. Or the chickenpox.

[CrazyCatLady]

Yeah, why? is where I'm at. I did for my last daughter, (only shot series she ever received). But I'm just not sure this time around. Now I'm not exactly swallowing that Hep B is this generally mild illness that almost always goes away on it's own and doesn't cause any issues. But that shot is a very scary one, I just found out that breast feeding isn't a risk (thanks Apricot). So maybe with a waterbirth, a good bath afterwards, some proper supplements, a good nd or chiro, and tons of breastfeeding might be a better way to go? I guess I would feel guilty if I didn't give this one the shot and she got the disease. But that's not reason enough to do it in my opinion.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I have had Hepatitis B twice (they presume different subtypes, but they presume a lot most of the time...) and it was no picnic. But even though the first one was really serious, and I do have an immunodeficiency, I did survive.

and..... by. the. way. I'm not a carrier, but I don't have any antibodies now either. However, I did have very low levels for 13 years.

And guess what? Some dork of a doctor tried to tell me that I had no immunity whatsoever, and should have a primary course of the vaccine.

Starting with my little finger on my left hand I went:

1) What do YOU know about cellular immunity?

2) What do YOU know about anamnestic response?

3) Do YOU know that most people, after and 15 years after a natural Hep B attack, DON'T have antibodies, but don't usually get it again either...

4) Exactly WHAT is it that causes a person who has had a disease in the past to continue to manufacture antibodies? Continued antigen stimulation? Doesn't that signify the body has NOT cleared the antigen from the system?

Oh and I reeled of a few other things too.

Malaya, what you need to know, and the only thing you need to know right now, is whether you are core antigen positive or not. The answer to that, will clarify all other issues.

[CrazyCatLady]

OK, I'm looking good. No core antigens but I am still testing positive for Hep B. So where should my train of thought be headed now?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I don't know where you train of thought will take you, but were I in your position, I would be thinking this.

If I have no core antigens then it isn't biologically plausible for me to infect my baby with infective viral material.

That I am still positive to the surface antigen means one of two things.

1) That my immune system is slightly defective, and unable to clear the virus from my liver, but that my immune system is efficiently containing it within the liver.

2) That the toxicity load is such that until its cleared the body can't snap up the virus in the liver.

I would talk to an Australian doctor I know called Dr Ian Brighthope, (who uses intravenous vitamin C to detoxify drug addicts and has told me that many of the drug users come in both core and surface antigen positive and finish with him core and antigen negative and antibody positive.) and ask him how much vitamin C I would need and what in my diet I'd need to adjust to try to clear the toxicities and take enough pressure off the liver to give me the best chance to make a final effort to try to rid myself of it.

(If you've had it since birth, that is one factor that makes it a bit tougher...)

In terms of the baby, I'm sure that if you keep up the vitamin C and other minerals and stuff, you shouldn't have core antigen released into your system. right now, you don't have, so hopefully you can see if there is a way to really get rid of it.

It would be reasonably to assume though, that at times when you feel terrible, and at those times, you may have infectious virus in the blood stream. After all the test results only indicate what happened that day, and you've said you have had period when you've been very unwell, so it might be a cyclical thing with you.

I have friends with iatrogenic Hepatitis C who have outlived the so-called maximum "life-span" and who have very little problem with it, becuase of their dietary and supplement regimine.

[CrazyCatLady]

Thanks, now I need to harass Long Island about how to get out of this vax and not go to jail. What kind of doctor would know how much Vitamin C I can safely take with out harming the baby? I have some sort of immune problem. They've never been able to diagnose it, but I get super high fevers, I'm always cold, often nauseas, my joints ache terribly, I'm always tired, ect. So somethings up that probably has nothing to do with the Hep B. Thanks again for the help everyone. I got lots more to read (mostly curiosity now, I've kind of already made up my mind about the vax). I just love this board.

[CallMeIshmael]

Melaya, there is no way to test for HepB core antigen without a liver biopsy. Unless you've had one, you won't know if you have them or not.

What do your records show? If you are Hep B surface antigen (HBsAg) positive, then you're a carrier. It's also very important to see if they've tested you for e antigen (HBeAg) -- if you're e antigen positive, you're at very high risk of infecting your baby. If you're negative, the risk is much much much much much much lower. If you haven't been tested for this, you should be -- it will help you make an informed decision about what to do.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

They tested her for e antigen which is negative.

In this country, the lab handbook state that e antigent is equivalent to core antigen. If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that all that was covered and more besides.,....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by Melaya

Thanks, now I need to harass Long Island about how to get out of this vax and not go to jail. What kind of doctor would know how much Vitamin C I can safely take with out harming the baby? I have some sort of immune problem. They've never been able to diagnose it, but I get super high fevers, I'm always cold, often nauseas, my joints ache terribly, I'm always tired, ect. So somethings up that probably has nothing to do with the Hep B. Thanks again for the help everyone. I got lots more to read (mostly curiosity now, I've kind of already made up my mind about the vax). I just love this board.

I wouldn't approach it that way. I'd take enough vitamin C to meet my needs, and that will hopefully meet the baby's needs to. Why do you think Vitamin C would harm the baby?

I think you need to find a doctor who actually knows something about immunology and endocrinology. I think you need your immune system fully sussed out as well as your thyroid checked and maybe a few other things.

The joint issue could be. Have they done rheumatoid factors or hep b antigen/antibody complexes?

[LongIsland]

This is what I've found so far. Will search more tomorrow.

Washington State
Neglect § 26.44.020

• Abuse or neglect means the negligent treatment of a child by any person under circumstances that indicate that the child’s health, welfare, and safety are harmed.
• Negligent treatment or maltreatment means an act or omission that evidences a serious disregard of consequences of such magnitude as to constitute a clear and present danger to the child’s health, welfare, and safety.


Exceptions §§ 26.44.015; 26.44.020

• This chapter shall not be construed to authorize interference with child-raising practices, including reasonable parental discipline, which are not injurious to the child's health, welfare, and safety.
• Nothing in this chapter may be used to prohibit the reasonable use of corporal punishment as a means of discipline.
• A person who is being furnished Christian Science treatment by a duly accredited Christian Science practitioner will not be considered, for that reason alone, a neglected person for the purposes of this chapter.

[LongIsland]

Here is the perinatal hepatitis b case report form for WA:
http://www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/immunize/d...ts/348-030.pdf

Take a look at the bottom at the "case closed" section.

[LongIsland]

Just an FYI. See page 3 (Guidelines):

http://www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/immunize/d...cProviders.pdf

[CallMeIshmael]

[double post]

[CallMeIshmael]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

They tested her for e antigen which is negative.

Did I miss a post somewhere? From what I see, Melaya says only that she has "no core antigens". She may be saying that because core antigens are not mentioned on her lab results -- no test for them is available.

E antigen and core antigen are different proteins that are encoded by separate parts of the HBV genome. They both indicate actively replicating virus (and therefore the potential to infect others). They're equivalent only in their significance. I'm reluctant to assume that "no core antigens" means that she has no e antigens either. This website explains the antibodies and antigens pretty well.

Melaya, what you need is a recent test that gives your e antigen and antibody results, and potentially an HBV viral load as well -- that should give you some perspective on your likelihood of passing this on to your child, and it's important information for you to have about your own health as well.

[mamakay]

When are you due?
If I were you, I think I'd do whatever it took to hook up with a really, really good immunologist, and get tested again now and again closer to your due date.

I've spent a while reading about it this morning, and it seems that mainstream thinking tends to assume that the immune globulin prevents initial infection, and the vax is there to prevent later transmission.
Although that 2002 study Apricot posted seems to imply that the vax works fairly well to prevent initial transmission, too.

Here's a good site I found that breaks it all down well.
http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders...is_b/test.html

I'm not sure, but I have a bad feeling that a lot of the really useful answers that would make this all black and white are going to involve factors that haven't been studied before.
Like, I'm wondering if you're HBeAg negative now, what are the chances you'll become positive closer to your due date?