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my dog bit my 19m old son (pics) - Page 3

post #41 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Dogs do not react out of spite, you will not find any certified behaviorist tell you they think things out like this. It's been researched to the end of the world, when you break the issue down, you can always find another reason.
Dogs are not capable of deciding "well I'm mad at you because you removed my teeth so I'm gonna head but you instead" to say they are would lend creadence to the old male argument against neutering " he'll get mad at me" if a dog can loose his testicles or even a leg without deciding to become aggresive, why would removing his teeth be any different--

We are talking about an animal that shows aggressive behavior. She listed 3 different scenarios when that dog is aggresive. If she doesn't let the dog and the child together anyway then what is the point?

And like I said, you didn't know Leroy.
post #42 of 106
Dogs do not react out of revenge--revenge is a human emotion. Dogs will act out of dominence--this is different than either revenge or aggresion.
And I can provide proof.
post #43 of 106
Sorry, but yeah, I know thousands of Leroys. I get paid extremely well to know Leroys and have an extremely good reputation in the field. Spite and revenge are human feelings that we place on dogs, dogs think in a FAR more simplistic way--much of behavior modification in dogs is getting the owners to let go of the human thought processes they assume their dogs have...but don't.

So sorry, but if anyone knows Leroy, it's probably me....or at very least any other behaviorist who would tell you exactly what I'm saying here--research has shown for many, many years that dogs do not think in terms of spite and revenge.
post #44 of 106
When my sister was gone at work longer than usual, or when she came home at an unexpected time, those are the times Victor would pee on her things. I can provide proof, too. (Her couch that still has pee stains on it, for one.)

You didn't know Leroy, & you didn't know Victor. HE peed out of revenge. Actually, he peed out of his peehole, but he did it AS revenge. :LOL (Sorry, I have a six year old, potty humor amuses me.)
post #45 of 106
Everything you described by the way is dominence behavior--which frankly has nothing to do with whether the dog likes someone or not--often dogs will attempt to exert dominence over a person they very much like--why bother gaining respect from someone you don't even like?
post #46 of 106
Fine. Whatever. Aggression revenge dominance. Doesn't matter what you are calling it.



I forgot who I was dealing with. I'm sure you know thousands of Leroys. I'm sure my experience must be nothing compared to your vast vast knowledge.
post #47 of 106
And Jenny what you described sounds more like separation anxiety issues, likely compounded by the dog being punished upon return by the owner and not knowing why he was being yelled at (he knows you're pissed--he doesn't know why) this begins a viscious circle of anxiety issues that are actually the most difficult aspect of canine behavior to modify.

Frankly, fine, if you don't believe me, if you know better than I do or any other trainer or behavoirist that's fine--but really, you should probably start selling your ideas--I make a very nice living doing what I do (of course there was that pesky 10 yrs I spent getting my master trainer certificate)
Whatever...
post #48 of 106
I'm with Shannon on this one in terms of theory. Doesn't mean that we don't all have our own unique interpretations of our own unique animals.

But dogs are not people. Dogs are dogs.
post #49 of 106
I love IOF!!
post #50 of 106
Thread Starter 
Uhhhh.... isn't peeing in the house just a lack of proper housetraining?

.....in the vast majority of cases?
post #51 of 106
Peeing can be, QOTP. It can also be a sign of submission or fear (submissive urination), or more frequently a sign of dominance, IMO.
post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenOfThePride
Uhhhh.... isn't peeing in the house just a lack of proper housetraining?

Uhhh, not when the dog was fine any other time. But if I put him in his kennel or "disciplined" him in anyway that any one else in the house did, the first thing he did was piss in my bed or hike his leg on my laundry basket.

No where else did he pee.

Well, something happened with the dog and my mother and that night he peed on HER pillow!

I really loved that dog....but then he started biting. So, we got rid of him. We were together nonstop when he was a pup. I took care of him, he slept with me, the whole nine yards..... sometimes I still miss Leroy.
post #53 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
And Jenny what you described sounds more like separation anxiety issues, likely compounded by the dog being punished upon return by the owner and not knowing why he was being yelled at (he knows you're pissed--he doesn't know why) this begins a viscious circle of anxiety issues that are actually the most difficult aspect of canine behavior to modify.
Um... first of all, the dog was not punished upon my sister's return. He did not pee when she came in the door, he waited till after she took him outside & THEN he peed. When my sister disciplined the dog for peeing on the couch, she did it right after it happened. There was no vicious circle of anything- just a spoiled nasty little dachsund who peed to punish my sister for leaving him alone.

As for the rest of your post, it seems really condescending & rude to me. You don't need ten years of training to know certain things. It's just common sense.
post #54 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by its_our_family
Fine. Whatever. Aggression revenge dominance. Doesn't matter what you are calling it.



I forgot who I was dealing with. I'm sure you know thousands of Leroys. I'm sure my experience must be nothing compared to your vast vast knowledge.
You're right, there's a damn good chance that I have much more experience and knowledge on this topic than you--I'm not sure why that makes me such a bad guy--what I'm saying is all extremely well documented.
But if it makes you feel better.

All the research and hundreds of years of knowledge gained by thousands of dog trainers applies to all other dogs but Leroy and Victor.

If you have some actual knowledge rather than just memories of these dogs (both of whom I could tell you what was actually going on with if I was to sit down with you for a couple hours and go over all of the behavior) then I'd be more than happy to learn something new--but fact is--this is what I do for a living, I get paid over $100 an hour for what I do and I specialize in aggresion problems in dogs.
Silly me for thinking my opinion may just be valid on this.
post #55 of 106
Thread Starter 
Now how is peeing a sign of dominance? My peke never peed in the house. At the humane society they are only letting him out once or twice a day, and he is holding it all day!

It can be territorial (sp?), but that's not dominance.
post #56 of 106
Yep, it is common sense--but it's common dog sense and that's completely and totally different from common people sense.
Can you point out how I was condescending???? I gave you an opinion, the issue STILL sounds like anxiety issues to me. No dog is more spoiled than my old boy--he doesn't piss on my couch though.
post #57 of 106
Ok, I recant.... they are capable of "revenge" but it is a form of dominance. And I for one do not need an animal trying to dominate me. I have enough problems with a 4r old and a 2yr old!!
post #58 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
this is what I do for a living, I get paid over $100 an hour for what I do and I specialize in aggresion problems in dogs.

Thanks. If I need ya. I'll let you know.
post #59 of 106
Dominence urination is definitely an aspect of urinating in the house. But, just because you have a dog with dominence issues doesn't mean he's going to have every aspect of the spectrum--KWIM?

To describe, the alpha male or female will urinate on an object that they feel is theirs--if a more dominent dog comes along--they will attempt to replace the original scent with their own--to show they are in charge. Territory is an aspect of dominence aggresion--the act of claiming anything as the dogs own--only the alpha dog is allowed to "own" things and therefore a dog with dominence issues may choose to mark things to show that he is alpha.
post #60 of 106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesmom
Um... first of all, the dog was not punished upon my sister's return. He did not pee when she came in the door, he waited till after she took him outside & THEN he peed. There was no vicious circle of anything- just a spoiled nasty little dachsund who peed to punish my sister for leaving him alone.
I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. So they went outside together, came back in, then the dog peed on the couch. This happened a lot? Sounds a LOT more like he was too afraid or uncomfortable to pee outside. Many dogs feel vulnerable when 'pottying' and try to find the most private or comfortable place to go. Was he a shy or fearful dog? Was he scared of other dogs? Perhaps he was too afraid of marking territory and offending other dogs. Dogs do not understand or use punishment.

Quote:
When my sister disciplined the dog for peeing on the couch, she did it right after it happened.
How did she discipline him? Physical punishment and shouting? Guaranteed not to work. In fact, counterproductive.

Quote:
As for the rest of your post, it seems really condescending & rude to me. You don't need ten years of training to know certain things. It's just common sense.
Common knowledge, especially when it comes to dogs, is notoriously wrong.
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