Bratz Dolls? - Page 4

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by tara

Well, Charles, you have a choice not to look at people that simplistically. Up to you. Personally, I think women have a right to express their sexuality without being called tramps and whores. A miniskirt does not a sex worker make. Besides, I have no judgement for women in the sex industry.

Love it when people read carefully.

Originally Posted by charles baudelaire

It's not nice, to be sure. However, what we have here is a basic situation in which the vast majority of "streetwalkers and tramps" characteristically dress in a manner calculated to expose or accentuate their bodies' sexual characteristics. Whereas there might be the occasional streetwalker or tramp who dresses herself like this, , I have a feeling that they are not characteristic of most tramps and streetwalkers. If a woman chooses to dress in a similar manner (i.e., to expose or accentuate her body's sexual characteristics), then like it or not, the comparison will be made. It's not nice, as I said, and it's not accurate (in the sense that I am assuming the woman who dresses like a tramp or streetwalker is neither one), but that unfortunately is the reality. If I dress in black and white and snap some wings and a yellow bill on my face, I'm not going to actually be a penguin, but I will tend to resemble one, KWIM?

[lilyka]

I think they are over sexed dolls and wouldn't let them in my house. I don't let my child go over to play at peoples house if they are going to be playing with dolls such as these. If I know someone has them and they really want to play I will request that they not play with them. dd knows she is not supposed and prefers to play with better toys. She doesn't understand why Brat (snotty, disrespectful, lazy)=cool.

As for the gift ask the mom. Just call and run it buy her. ASk her what she thinks and include a gift reciept just in case. If you have already sent it just mention that you didn't realize it was controversial, hadn't seen all of them, etc and didn't realize how strongly some people felt bout these dolls, hope you didn't cause any problems etc . . . It was a sweet gesture.

[Tinas3muskateers]

All those against these dolls, How you do feel about your children listening to music? Or watching videos? What are your thoughts on your children choosing those things for themselves? Clothing? Music? Videos? etc?

[MrsMoe]

Originally Posted by tara

Well, Charles, you have a choice not to look at people that simplistically. Up to you. Personally, I think women have a right to express their sexuality without being called tramps and whores. A miniskirt does not a sex worker make. Besides, I have no judgement for women in the sex industry.

*applause*

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=toys]

I showed this to my dh and said, "Would you buy this doll for Ramona?" He looked at it and said, "The hooker doll? Bratz streetcorner ho?"

(And no, this was not in front of the children, they are in bed.)

Even the "cute" Bratz dolls someone listed are showing their midriffs.

OP, I would return the doll and either get a Groovy Girl or some art supplies!

Namaste!

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by MrsMoe

*applause*

Please actually read what I said. It reflects poorly on anyone, really, when they comment upon something they have obviously either not read or have misread or are choosing to misread. I am assuming you have either chosen to misread my posts or were momentarily distracted and did not read it carefully -- the most flattering of the choices available to me.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Tinas3muskateers

All those against these dolls, How you do feel about your children listening to music? Or watching videos? What are your thoughts on your children choosing those things for themselves? Clothing? Music? Videos? etc?

My children only listen to music that lines up with our values. Same with all media - boks, movies, TV and computer (they are not allowed to play on the bratz web page). My children generally don't choose toys for themselves. They rarely have money/gift certificates. I would not allow these dolls in my house even if they paid for them themselves. But we really drive hom our values on these things and I keep educating my children until they understand why these don't line up with our values.

oh and we do not allow any hootchie clothes here either regardless of who paid for them.

[lab]

Originally Posted by Tinas3muskateers

All those against these dolls, How you do feel about your children listening to music? Or watching videos? What are your thoughts on your children choosing those things for themselves? Clothing? Music? Videos? etc?

Are you asking if I let my 2, 3 and 4 year olds (when they were that age) listen to music that said F**K in it. Of course not. Are you asking if I allowed my 6 year old to view movies that had sexual intercourse in it? Of course not. I personally do not feel comfortable subjecting my kids to things that they cannot get their mind around.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Tinas3muskateers

All those against these dolls, How you do feel about your children listening to music? Or watching videos? What are your thoughts on your children choosing those things for themselves? Clothing? Music? Videos? etc?

I think it is a crucial job of a parent to impart their values to their child. It is the child's responsibility when they are an adult to evaluate those values and choose to reject or accept them. As far as music, I shield my child -- who just turned five -- from music with violence or explicit sexual content. Fortunately, that leaves a great deal of music to explore and enjoy, and I'm glad to expose her to everything from opera to Rolling Stones. As far as videos, I think that most children's videos are utter garbage and we don't watch them. As far as other videos, I shield her from violence and explicit sexual content. And so on.

As she gets older, she will have more and more freedom to make these decisions for herself; however, it is my job as a parent to be a gatekeeper at this point for what goes into and out of my child's mind; I honestly feel it is irresponsible to do otherwise. Some people's gates may be wider than mine; others might be open to different directions, but in one way or another, many of the mothers on this board have a similar mindset: there are things they do and do not allow.

[CarrieMF]

To me and my kids they are a doll and nothing more.

What bothers me far more than what a doll might or might not be wearing is teaching kids to call people names/assume bad things based on their attire.

ITA

[RubyWild]

Originally Posted by Tinas3muskateers

All those against these dolls, How you do feel about your children listening to music? Or watching videos? What are your thoughts on your children choosing those things for themselves? Clothing? Music? Videos? etc?

My Dd is 4 years old and I would not bring Bratz into our home. She doesn't watch videos because we don't own a VCR, but she is around music with explict lyrics. As far as clothes go, she has no interest in them, yet.

I was allowed, as a child, to wear whatever I wanted, read whatever I wanted, listen to whatever music. However, when I was 4, my parents allowed me to have my innocence. They didn't go out of their way to expose me to adult issues.

There are so many great dolls out there, we choose not to have Bratz in our home. If my Dd was let's-say-8 and noticed Bratz and really wanted one, I would discuss it with her and very possibly allow her to have them, then. Until then, I'm not going to expose her to them out of the blue for no good reason.

Updated to say that I just went to the Bratz website and saw them closer up. I take back what I said about giving one to my 8 year old maybe. No, I wouldn't give them to her.

[wahoowhippets]

I would never buy one of those ugly dolls for my girls or anyone else's girls either. I hate the name of them too. Yuk.

[kimmie-pooh]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the replies (just a few), but wanted to offer my .02 if that's okay.

Personally, I would not buy these dolls for my 7 yo dd. Not necessarily because they look like prostitutes as mentioned by a PP. Simply because they demonstrate dress of an adult woman. I am more on the conservative side when it comes to the way I dress. I don't believe that a woman needs to show a lot of skin in order to be considered beautiful. These dolls (along with society) promote sexuality too much, IMO.

My dd is tall and thin. I am already having a lot of trouble finding clothing that fits her that aren't too 'sexy' for a 7 yo. (Mid-drifts, writing on the butt, low rise pants) I don't really want to deal with the sexuality of a doll.

That's just me.

If you like the doll and you think your niece would like the doll, give it to her.

[thismama]

Nothing is ever *just* a doll. I agree with tara's perspective in this discussion. Bratz dolls are laden with messages about what girls and women are in this culture... messages that are culturally reinforced all over the place, and messages that I don't particularly want to reinforce with my daughter any more than will already happen.

No way would I buy her a Bratz doll.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by kimmie-pooh

Simply because they demonstrate dress of an adult woman. I am more on the conservative side when it comes to the way I dress. I don't believe that a woman needs to show a lot of skin in order to be considered beautiful. These dolls (along with society) promote sexuality too much, IMO.

My dd is tall and thin. I am already having a lot of trouble finding clothing that fits her that aren't too 'sexy' for a 7 yo. (Mid-drifts, writing on the butt, low rise pants) I don't really want to deal with the sexuality of a doll.

I agree with this! This is what I hate about these dolls, and the other My Scene Barbies too. I would much rather my dd have a regular Barbie, because at least they look adult. Not like any real adult, but not like a pre-teen either, which is what I don't like about the Bratz. They look like young, like fourteen year olds but dressed like they're looking to get laid. Even the "cute" ones.

I really hate how sexual clothes are for children and teenagers now. I really hate that if you are an adult woman, in your sexual prime, you are supposed to dress far more modestly and conservatively than a 13 year old. I really hate that if they have a TV show about SAHMs that are sexual, they have to look and dress like they're 15, otherwise no one will want to hear about their sexuality.

IMO, our society is sexually unhealthy, and sexualized toys are just another symbol of this.

BTW, I CANNOT believe they have thong panties at the Limited Too. What in the hell is the matter with a little girl having panty lines? And what little girl wants to wear a thong panty? Disgusting!

[Tinas3muskateers]

my dd has wanted a thong since the 6th grade and I flat out refused to have them in my home. Well this year I started to find them in the laundry. She was buying them herself. If she had the extra cash on hand at the mall that is what she bought. She is just about to turn 15 now but it still freaks me out lol

[LukesMum]

Wow, I m really surprised to find such controversy over this HERE. We are all entitled to our opinions....but this is a surprising thread. I would have assumed that the MDC crowd would be adamantly opposed to Bratz. Personally I am opposed for all the reasons above...luckily my 3 yr old doesn't even know wht they are! My 5 yr old does and whenver we see anything with them or Barbie he says "cover her eyes mom!: WHich I think is kinda cute. I will continue to watch this....be kind all!

[MrsMoe]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Please actually read what I said. It reflects poorly on anyone, really, when they comment upon something they have obviously either not read or have misread or are choosing to misread. I am assuming you have either chosen to misread my posts or were momentarily distracted and did not read it carefully -- the most flattering of the choices available to me.

It reflects poorly on anyone who says the reality of it is that a woman who wears tight clothes and has big boobs and wears make-up looks like a hooker.

[MrsMoe]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

I showed this to my dh and said, "Would you buy this doll for Ramona?" He looked at it and said, "The hooker doll? Bratz streetcorner ho?"

(And no, this was not in front of the children, they are in bed.)

Even the "cute" Bratz dolls someone listed are showing their midriffs.

OP, I would return the doll and either get a Groovy Girl or some art supplies!

Namaste!

Apparently you didn't see these Bratz dolls, so I will repost the link:



http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[tara]

Backtracking now (sorry; I was offline for a while), but... Charles: I read your post completely. And I still felt like you were giving the miniskirt=tramp perspective a whole lot of leeway and not a lot of responsibility. It is not "the reality", it is a choice to see the world that way. That's all.