Is it just me or is this REALLY rude? - Page 2

[Piglet68]

When reading the OP all I could think about was which one of us would do the same as that woman if it meant educating someone about the benefits of....breastfeeding, for example.

Let's say somebody at your workplace is confiding in you that their sister is going to not even try BFing, says that formula is "just as good", etc....this coworker of yours is upset and wants the best for her future neice/nephew. She thinks that maybe if her sister could get more support she'd at least try to BF. You mention that you have some great article about the benefits of breastfeeding and ask her if she'd like to show it to her sister.

Now what's so bad about that?

[LunaMom]

If someone asked me directly for an article in support of breastfeeding or co-sleeping or whatever because they wanted it for themselves, sure, I'd give it to them. But if someone told me that their sister or friend was committed to a certain choice, and that they disagreed and wanted an article to help prove their point, I wouldn't get involved! It really sounds as though the sister was at fault here - she clearly feels the need to butt into the non-vaxing decision and the fact that the article was provided by someone else is irrelevant. It's still a case of TrinityMama's sister trying to impose her own views.

So, no, Piglet68, I wouldn't do that. I am all for breastfeeding and I am happy to educate people if they are interested or in need of infortmation, but I draw the line at being pushy.

[Piglet68]

Lunamom, you are right. But I doubt that Trin's sister presented it that way. She probably discussed it from her own POV as if it were her issue, like "this is really upsetting me, blah blah blah".

Anyways, I don't blame you Trinity'sMama for being upset. I just think that your issue here is with your sister, not the woman who helped her. Your sister obviously is not listening to you when you say you have done your research, and she is not being accepting of your choices. I agree that this is not fair of her, and you do have every right to be upset with her.

I just don't think the woman who provided the article did anything wrong. She was trying to help out a coworker, she doesn't know you, and I'm betting the way your sister presented the issue to her, she felt she was helping your sister.

Anyways, that's just the way I saw it. YOU are the one dealing with it and any anger you have over the issue is totally valid and you have my sympathy and support!

[Seeking Refuge]

My family is terrible about this too. I think that you have had some good suggestions as to how to handle this just wanted to say that yes I think that this was rude.
I agree that the issue is with your sister not the co-worker.
I hope your situation doesn't call for this, but you know there is no law that says you have to be friends with your family.
Due to some great advice I got here on MDC, I have cut back a lot on my the amount of time I spend with my anti-AP family and have focused on building some healthier relationships in my life. It is easier to ignore meddling from people like your sister and co-worker when you have supportive like-minded people in your corner.

take care,

[USAmma]

I think you have a right to be upset, but at the same time just realize this woman's heart was in the right place and she probably felt she was helping you.

I mean, I bottlefed dd (pumped breastmilk for 4 mos.) and I would sometimes get a concerned breastfeeding advocate who would say something to me about breastmilk being best, until they heard my story. I never was offended by them. And then there are the neighbors who are very religious and can't understand why I'm not of the same faith. She too has given me advice and literature to read and I know she's doing it because she cares, even though I don't agree with her.

I could list so many examples. And while part of me feels they are being nosy and instrusive, I'm also touched that they care. I think it's the manner in which they do it that counts the most. Just throw the article away if you don't agree with it and keep doing what you are doing.

BTW I was much more of an expert on baby care before I had my baby! lol!

Darshani

[nuggetsmom]

It does seem forward to send you an article, but I don't think it was rude. I agree that I wouldn't send an unsolicited article on the benefits of BFing to someone who wasn't either. But what was her intent really? Probably se just thought you would be interested. Sending her something back will only escalate the situation. You made an educated choice, tell your sister that. If you slam this woman you will only make nonvaxers seem crazier and that is not what you want.

My MIL and SIL slam me all the time for various things. My MIL sends me a lot of unsolicited articles of research on various things. I am a scientist and some of these things are so bogus, that it just makes me crazy. So when she sent me info on not vaxing I rolled my eyes and tossed it out.

What I am trying to say is that their attitude just makes me ignore whatever they say. So if you want your opinions to be valued, respect her position and take a deep breath and agree to disagree. And who knows, maybe your sister's talking will make someone else think that what they are dong is not so crazy.
I thought I was crazy for cosleeping till someone mentioned that they did it too. Then I actually found out a lot of people set out to cosleep. People come by information by roundabout ways.

[Sofiamomma]

If you're doing something that goes against someone else's set, unquestioned way of doing something, it is likely to upset them. I was certainly very upset with the first non-vaxing folks. I encountered. It creates what is called cognitive dissonance. A person experiencing that is going to first seek to validate their original way of thinking. One way to do that is to talk to people who are going to agree. Which I did, and felt better, for a little while. Yep, I was right, not vaxing is nuts, it's wrong, it's bad for society, selfish, etc. etc. But I kept thinking and asking questions, and reading and eventually changed my mind. At first the pendulum swung the other way and I thought it was bad to vaccinate. Now it has settled to center and I can see both sides and respect any well-educated, well-considered decision a parent may make for the child whether it be fully, partially, or not at all vaccinating.

Personally, I don't, but it was and continues to be an agonizing decision. There are so many what-ifs, but I feel better knowing I made the decision after doing a lot of research and figuring out what is best in our situation. I'm glad somebody showed me it was something to question, something to think about. Perhaps you have done that for your sister. I honestly don't think what she is doing is a problem at all, other than being annoyingly unsupportive of you. I was probably just as annoying to the friends that I was having a fit about! But they were patient with me and didn't get too mad at me.

[casmi]

yep, I'd be pissed too.

[oatmeal]

Personally I think it's a waste of time to be even talking about your sister or that woman. Frankly, the world is filled with mindless lemmings who just go with the flow and never ask questions, and the two people you are complaining about are in that category.

My brother and his wife slammed their baby with vaccinations when he was teeny, cut off his foreskin, feed him Gerber's, Carnation formula and cheese doodles, think I was excessive for breastfeeding my baby until 1, think I'm a lunatic for being vegetarian and mock me for it. "Well, what if DD WANTS to eat meat, THEN what will you do?" - etc etc.

When they have colon cancer and lung cancer from smoking and thier kid has ADD or something worse from the awful food they stuff him with, they will STILL be asking me why I'm a nut.

Like I said, it's a waste of time. I say wipe your ass with her stupid article and smile on your way to the health food store. Who cares what they think say or do!

(BTW: their baby has been hospitalized for upper respiratory problems, is on antibiotics, has had 2 ear infections that wouldn't go away (he's 9 months), never sleeps, is a picky eater, is hyper active and whines all day long (though I love him and his cute smile). My baby had her first little cold at 11 months, smiles all day long, is mellow and likes to entertain herself with books, eats like a champ, and impresses everyone with her level of contentment. I fully believe it's because she was spared vaccination and eats only mother's milk or organic vegetarian food! Plus cosleeping and wearing, etc. - you have to do whatyou know is right and ignore the naysayers)

[Kirsten]

I agree with those who thought it was forward of her to send an article but not rude.

I think the real issue I would have if I was in that position is with your sister, not her coworker. The sister discussed your business with her coworkers. She hand delivered the article which she knew would not sit well with you. IMO she is more deserving of your anger or annoyance or whatever than the coworker.

I agree with one of two routes now. One is to ignore it. Two is to send said coworker a note thanking her for the article, stating you have researched thoroughly and came to a different conclusion - if she is interested, check out x,y,z websites. Vent to us or your AP friends IRL but showing anger to those who have a different viewpoint will not bring them around to your side. Calm, well thought out and researched info will. Or at least might!
Kirsten

[Xenogenesis]

I might send her some facts on polio and strengthening the immune system. Oh and possibly the homeopathic remedy for polio.

Below is an excerpt from "The Vaccine Guide" :

"Most cases (90 to 98 percent) of illness associated with poliovirus remain either inapparent or characterized by sore throat, nausea, and abdominal pain.

It is usually diagnosed as a cold or flu.

Only one percent of infections results in paralytic disease.

Only a small percentage of these cases have residual paralysis."

Randall Neustaedter, OMD also says the following about polio:

"No epidemics have occurred in the United States since 1954."

"The risk of acquiring wild polio in the United States is zero."

Randall Neustaedter also quotes the following references:

"During the period 1980-1985, 55 cases of paralytic polio were reported. Of these cases, 51 were caused by the vaccine and 4 occurred in people returning from developing countries (Centers for Disease Control, 1986)."

"An average of 8 cases of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) occur each year in the United States(Institute of Medicine, 1988)."

[mommy at last]

from what I can tell, 3 1/2 months into AP, research based parenting, it involves a constant attack from other people -- either direct or passive. From the HMO doctor making me feel like I"m screwing it up for everyone and jeopardizing my child's health by not vaccing, to my mother's telling me the story of why she weaned me for the umpteenth time (her passive agressive way of letting me know she thinks it's wrong that I plan on breastfeeding as long as possible. She weaned me at 7 months after her doctor told her that it might be embarassing for her to b/f me after dropping me off for preschool.

when you question something that most of society just goes along with, you either tick people off OR you educate them. I never knew vaccines were a hot issue until it was mentioned repeatedly at a prenatal yoga class I took. The AP stuff just made sense to me before I even knew it had a name.

The idea of sending this intrusive woman articles informing her of why vaccines are bad is a good one -- maybe you'll save her next child the chemical assault. Otherwise, just chalk it up to another person who is uninformed or is simply more comfortable doing what every one else is doing, and wants you to do the same.

from a mommy at last

[Sofiamomma]

I posted a long reply on this last night and lost it because of that dang database error page. Hmmph. Anyway, suffice to say, I don't think it's bad or wrong for you to discuss your POV with your sister, or for her to discuss it with others. It's only human. When someone is going along with the status quo and another person does something different it causes cognitive dissonance and gets their back up. Their first reaction is to discuss it with someone they know will validate them, but hopefully they will keep questioning and thinking. When I first encountered non-vaxing folks, I thought it was wrong, bad for society, selfish, dangerous, etc. etc. and I talked it over with folks I knew would back me up. Eventually, I started asking more questions of my non-vaxing friends who referred me to stuff to read and now I can see both sides of it. And, btw, decided not to vaccinate my kids.

[girlfactory]

Originally posted by gretasmommy
I would be angry as well! As mom, I always have my DD's best interests in mind when making any parenting decision. We do vax, but that is our choice.
I think I would probably not reply to this woman, as I doubt you could possibly change her mind. It sounds as though she is capable of finding pro and con- vaxing info on her own . . .
I wouldn't waste my energies.

Andrea
mommy to Greta 3/14/02

I agree completely. I wouldn't waste my time trying to change her mind. She obviously feels so strong about her views to invade your privacy this way. There's always going to be someone that does not agree with the parenting choices you make.

[bunnybartlett]

It still

amazes me that some ppl have nothng better to do than talk about others.Arent these women supposed to be watching children??I would be more angry with my sister than the stranger.I guess in a way it is good to get awareness out there about the dangers of vaccinations,but why cant ppl mind there own business??Maybe they are just jealous because they are not strong enough to challenge mainstream thinking and do whats best for their child??

Linda

[kater07]

What about all the kids they are influencing?

Little ears hear a LOT LOT LOT more than anyone gives them credit for!

Ack!

Katie