Sunday School vs. Unschooling

[Faith]

We are Christians who believe in unschooling. We have two children DS-3 and DD-1. I am having a problem with "Sunday School" (which is also Wednesday night school and Friday night school) that I hope some other Christian mothers can help me out with.

We live the whole Christian life-style, so I do not believe that my DS needs Sunday School in any way to learn about our beliefs. In fact, I think he actually learns some pretty negative things there from the other kids (interesting laungage, etc.) I can only see these problem increasing as times goes on, as a lot of the girls dress totally innapropriately and many kids there are not really from Christian families to begin with.

I also do not like the 'shut up, sit down, we are going to teach you something now' (basic school) attitude, or the art projects that are cookie cutter copies of each other, and the "dumbed down" lessons. My son is very smart, and I feel they simplify the lessons down to just a bunch of fluff, that insults his intelligence and makes them seem almost irrelavent to real life.

I do not think learning about God should be pigeon holed into a few set hours, that it should be integrated into our real lives, just like with unschooling. The time DS is in Sunday School is also the only time he is away from us. We do a lot (LLL, play dates, trips, etc.) but always together. Sometimes I feel it is my responsibilty to guide him and not turn it over to just anyone who just happens to be "teaching" that Sunday.

I just wonder if anyone else has ever felt this way. We actuallly have a nice church with good people, I just do not like the "school" situation. I wish all the kids just stayed in church with the parents.

Has anyone else dealt with this?

[lilyka]

Wow, you brought up some intreting points. OUr sunday school program is unique in that our the people who do it are traveling childrens etertainers and do illusions, music and puppets with the kids and all the children (k-7th or 8th grade) learn together. Sh really enjoys it. It is more of a social thing I guess for her. so that is why she likes to go. As far as actual learning I feel that is my responsibilty. Her awana teacher last year completely blew me away but also helped me relize how much she was ready for (ex: my 5 year old is digin through my pantry and asks "Mom do we have any vinigar" um, why honey "because that is all they would give jesus to dring when he was dying" i had never tyhought she would get anythin out of that part of the story and she totally got it - but like I said her teacher was exceptional) so sometimes it is good to have someone to encourage you and put ideas (good ones that is ) in your childs head.

[anythingelse]

Yes,
lots of parents feel that way. I am Catholic and my kids are 'required' to attend CCD religious education in order to receive sacraments. The classes are pretty horrible and run by volunteer parents, most of whom are anti-homeschooling anyway. We are using materials that are Catholic at home, and we live our faith which teaches the children what they need to know.
And the 'requirements' vary depending on what parish you attend~~ This year only our oldest will go and my dh and I are trying to decide what to do about next yr.
Good Luck!

[Queen Gwen]

Ooooo...that line about wishing all the kids stayed in church with their parents really caught me by surprise...our church does Sunday School during a set hour -- it's for everybody, adults as well as children. Then during services there are programs for the younger children. And, believe me, our kids don't go to the programs during the services because FAMILIES BELONG TOGETHER IN CHURCH! (Now, at this point imagine a loooooong rant and rave about this, bordering on incoherent. Thank you...that saves me alot of typing.)

Interestingly, we've found older generation members in our church who say that they think it's awful to ship the kids out to Children's Church or SS or whatever...they agree that FAMILIES BELONG TOGETHER IN CHURCH. So, you may discover that others agree with you about your current SS program (either it's timing or the way it's run).

Sometimes I wish our SS had some of the swanky programs like Godly Play or the thing where the kids cycle through different stations over the course of a month (can't remember what that's called -- sorry). But I'm always amazed at how much good info dd picks up, in spite of how fluffly it seems. And we often have opportunity to discuss our schooling and lifestyle choices in view of the behaviour of some of the other kids.

Are you able to offer an alternative program within your church?

[Faith]

Wow~ am *I* able to offer anything?!
No, unfortunately. I was just asked to "teach" the next six month course for the 0-4s. I had a lot of ideas and then was handed a rigid schedule they actually have down to five minute incriments. I am new and not ready to rock the boat yet...: Not that I wouldn't like to! I wish I could say no, but now I already said yes... How do I get myself into these situations?

Anyway, thankyou for the feedback! I'm sure I will figure out something over the next six months!!

[lilyka]

Wow - our 0-4 activities include a story, coloring and play-dogh. Well that is actually our 2-5 year olds. Our goal for 0-2 is "nobody bleeds or gets nasty parisitical deseases."

[Faith]

That sounds much better!

We have to join another class two separate times for two different activities, do the lesson, watch a video, do the art activity, have snack, etc. (There are a lot of HSers at our church who use Switched-On School House, and I think it never occurs to them not to be so rigid.)

I am allready border-line weird to them, so I do not want to force my ideas on them. I think it must have been expensive and time-comsuming for someone to put all those lessons together.

I guess I will just put my time in, and get all of us out (and just back into adult church together).

[guest^]

Yep! We are Hsing dd for this semester of SS...

There are others in our Parish that are HSing for CCD....not sure if we will do this.

mamapoppins

[Faith]

Ooooh! I just love that! So when the nice teacher lady asks why my kids aren't in children's church, I can smile and say, "We homeschool children's church with our kids!" Why didn't I think of that?

[treehugginhippie]

Originally Posted by Faith

I just wonder if anyone else has ever felt this way. We actuallly have a nice church with good people, I just do not like the "school" situation. I wish all the kids just stayed in church with the parents.

Has anyone else dealt with this?

Bumping this really old thread. I'm still reading but I'm leaning towards unschooling. I also many of the same feelings the op has on this topic. Dh and I have started going to church again. I'd really like to continue going but I don't feel comfortable with DD (3.75 yrs old) going to Sunday school during the service. She does ok sitting with us but of course she's the pretty much the only child sitting with their parents. I'm sure she would enjoy it (they sing, then listen to a story, then do a craft) but it just doesn't feel right...too much like "school".

As the op had posted...has anyone else dealt with this???

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

Very intersting thread as i vounteered in my 2 1/2 ds class one sunday and geez's there were some other mom's in the class who were just like the op stated...didnt let the kids use the glue stick bt themselves...were very condisending to the children. But my son loves to go...

[steffanie3]

We also have SS during a set hour before we have corporate worship. They have Children's Church during the message, but our kids won't be going. We also believe in worshiping as a family.

For SS though I have been wondering how we are going to deal with it. Right now seems to be fine, DS1 is the only child consistantly there so I think they talk about their lesson and sing and then he gets to play. It seems very relaxed, we were really happy about that because the lady who took over teaching we thought might be pretty controlling. I am not sure about the next class, but that is for 1st-3rd grades, so I have a while.

My real concern is Awana, which I love, but my MIL is the leader in my DS1 class and she is a control freak. I am constantly on guard with that.

[kerikadi]

Why not volunteer to teach the class yourself?
Like anythingelse I am Catholic and my kids go to CCD (CCE here). I teach my 3, almost 4 year olds class. I am fortunate in that the other teacher in the class is from Ireland and was a Montessori teacher for years. She is very supportive of homeschooling and gives me great ideas all the time.

If you want your kids involved but want a bit more control then volunteer to teach their classes. If this year isn't working pull them out and put them in YOUR class next year.

ETA: I see you have already dealt with my suggestion.
My girls call our homeschool The Lastname Jesus School.
My older daughter would be in K this year and the first day of 'church school' they were sitting in a circle and the teacher asked where everyone went to school. DD said "I got to school with Jesus" and I guess she said it in a 'I don't know about YOU people but I school with the savior' kind of attitude Anyway, when I went to pick her up (I teach DD2's class) they were VERY interested in where DD went to school

[Climbing Rose]

I had to laugh seeing this thread, because I was/am Faith.
I was gone for a looong time and couldn't get my old name back, and the admin told me they would merge the two accounts and still haven't.

But anyway....
It's weird because I don't really feel that strongly about it anymore. Maybe because the DC are older- the ones I talked about are 6 and 8 now, plus we have more. When they go to children's things at our church now, I just see is as a place for them to run around and see other DC.
I would be scared if that was supposed to be their spiritual training or something! But I just look at it as social time. We are going to a different, smaller church, and so far so good.

I think it was easy for me, when I only had two really young DC, to want to do it all perfectly in line with my ideals, but as they grow it isn't always realistic. Just like how DH is currently feeding my toddler Ben & Jerry's on a regular basis. No way that would have happened with my first baby! But I guess I am loosening up as a parent and in general. I don't think being told what to do for a while here and there is going to mess up my DC for life, as long as it's done in a kind way and the DC are overall fine with it.

[beansricerevolt]

We look at "church" as a place for support. Most of our family worship is done on a daily basis with or without our community of believers. I don't at all expect my family to grow spiritually on Sunday mornings. This is mostly a time of rest for us.
I feel if there are important aspects of your faith that your current church is unable to provide or is counter too, its probably time to find a new community of believers. OF course you will never find the perfect church but its really important to find something your whole family is comfortable with.

[PreggieUBA2C]

Love (formerly known as Faith), our eldest is 4 now, our youngest about to be born and when I read your initial post (today), I agreed with your concerns. We're also unschoolers, and I can completely see how when our dc are 6, 7, 8, and 9, I'll see similar situations as social occassions, but for now, while they are so tender and impressionable- forming ideas for the first time- I am very strongly in favour of being intimately involved in what they learn.

I think that the relaxation that you describe is something that will happen as a result or natural progession from/of their maturation and also mine along with them, but not something that I could do now while they still need so much guidance and we are still in such a constant state of relational flux, iykwim.

Btw, I laughed aloud many times reading through this thread!

Also, we are now unchurching too- fellowship based, non-institutional worship and learning together like in the new testament; we don't have the control and schooling issues anymore, but I can still relate to the philosophical ideals presented here since they are not (often) accepted wherever children are, it seems.

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Faith

I just wonder if anyone else has ever felt this way. We actuallly have a nice church with good people, I just do not like the "school" situation. I wish all the kids just stayed in church with the parents.

Has anyone else dealt with this?

This doesn't mean that YOU can't keep YOUR child in church with you

[elizawill]

...We live the whole Christian life-style, so I do not believe that my DS needs Sunday School in any way to learn about our beliefs. In fact, I think he actually learns some pretty negative things there from the other kids (interesting laungage, etc.) I can only see these problem increasing as times goes on, as a lot of the girls dress totally innapropriately and many kids there are not really from Christian families to begin with.
I think the point of church is that all are welcome, right?

I also do not like the 'shut up, sit down, we are going to teach you something now' (basic school) attitude, or the art projects that are cookie cutter copies of each other, and the "dumbed down" lessons. My son is very smart, and I feel they simplify the lessons down to just a bunch of fluff, that insults his intelligence and makes them seem almost irrelavent to real life.
Sunday school is usually run by volunteers that give of their time to love children and teach them about God for free so that you can attend service. you don't have to take your kids to sunday school if you dislike it

I do not think learning about God should be pigeon holed into a few set hours, that it should be integrated into our real lives, just like with unschooling.
sunday school is never meant to be the only time spent with God for children. it definitely should be an integrated whole life experience. just as sunday church is not meant to be an adult christian's only encounter with God each week

The time DS is in Sunday School is also the only time he is away from us. We do a lot (LLL, play dates, trips, etc.) but always together. Sometimes I feel it is my responsibilty to guide him and not turn it over to just anyone who just happens to be "teaching" that Sunday.

I just wonder if anyone else has ever felt this way. We actuallly have a nice church with good people, I just do not like the "school" situation. I wish all the kids just stayed in church with the parents.
you can take your kids to church with you. no one can stop you from doing that, right? i think you should feel blessed by what your church offers personally, and if you don't like it - than be a volunteer to help change it

not trying to be snarky, just honest

[beanandpumpkin]

I understand how you feel. I am sure that if you wanted to, you could keep your children in the service with you.

I teach Sunday School one or two Sundays per month, and yes, it is usually a "sit down and be quiet", cut and paste activity for the younger kids. Remember that it is usually volunteers with no classroom experience, who have jobs and/or children and homes of their own to take care of during the week, so many of them just don't have the time to plan an interesting, open-ended lesson. In response to this, most churches purchase a "cookie cutter" type curriculum. Churches also want to be sure that the activities and lessons mesh with their doctrines, so they might not allow teachers to make up their own lessons. I did actually make my own lessons for several months (I used to be the "every Sunday" teacher for the preschoolers), but it got to be too much after a while, so I requested a curriculum from the head pastor.

I send my own kids to Sunday School because I prefer to listed to the service without having two children whispering and giggling and asking me to take them to the bathroom. I don't send them so that they learn all there is to learn about God and Jesus and our beliefs... I do that at home with them, and I have them enrolled in a Bible study class for children on Wednesdays... it does seem like there are several "class clowns" in their SUnday School classes. Not my ideal situation, but something that I can live with in order to be able to pay attention to my church services.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you!

[tallanvor]

Interesting. Now, I teach a Sunday School class on Sunday mornings. I teach 4 yr olds through kindergarten. Maybe it is because I am a homeschooler myself, but we aren't a strict class. Yes, I do expect the kids to sit and listen to the story, but I try to make the story short and interesting. I focus more on reiterating during play and craft the lesson of the story (God loves us, God wants us to love each other, etc), not necessarily the story itself. I don't think kids at that age necessarily need to know that Paul used to be Saul and was the first missionary. If they know that, cool, but i am more interested in the children knowing about God, not just the stories. And when we do craft, we have a specific goal in mind, but not a specific way of getting there. For instance, last Sunday we were talking about how the church in the Bible that took care of the widows and went on to talk about how God wants us to care for others. So, we made get well cards for people on the church prayer list or people we knew who were sick. But I don't decide how the cards are made or what they say. Some of the kids just wanted to color and put stickers on it. Some of them wanted to glue and aside from suggesting they put the glue on piece of paper instead of the card itself, let them go at it. One kid wanted to actually write out Get Well, so I told him how to spell it and he wrote it out. It drives me bonkers when grow-ups tell their kids that it has to be done a specific way.

And you know, if you are not comfortable with putting your child in a Sunday School class, then don't. And if your children are not welcome in the service, then I think you need to find a different church. Unless your children are just very disruptive, in which case they need discipline, but I highly doubt that's the case here.