Epigenetics; This link explains the histone factor better for me:
http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=9322
Quote:
the environmental exposure triggers a chemical change in the body or brain that mobilizes a group of molecules – called a methyl group. The methyl group attaches to the control segment of a gene and either silences – or alternately activates – the gene. Either way, the gene veers off its intended course of activity.
Duke scientists describe methylation as putting gum on a light switch. The switch isn't broken, but the gum blocks its function.
Such stealth changes often occur in embryonic or fetal development, but they set the stage for an adult's susceptibility to a host of diseases and behavioral responses, the data suggest. Moreover, epigenetic changes – so named because they sit on top of the gene and leave its sequence unchanged – can also be passed down from one generation to the next, said Jirtle. |
You quote
Quote:
| Foreign substances such as antibiotics (actinomycin D), dyes (acridine orange), enzymes (DNase I), and complex carbohydrates (phytohemagglutinin) also penetrate the cell nucleus to the chromatin, where they also may have stimulatory or inhibitory effects on RNA or DNA synthesis. |
can also be seen as the basis for allergic responses to vaccines. Antibiotics affect a lot of things, and when the body decided that it doesn't like antibiotics, it causes changes in how the body functions, hence allergies and anaphylaxis. When they hypothesise about a potentially genetic susceptibility to allergy to antibiotics, I wouldn't consider that valid. The body doesn't like antibiotics and has a hissy fit. In the absense of antibiotics, it works just fine.... sort of like an epigenetic "chewing gum" causing a different response.
IMO the function of epigenetics is the same in antibiotic reactions as in autism, but obviously a different pathway... both involve immune responses as a response to epigenetic changes...
Quote:
Originally quoted by pumpkinsmama:
All of the info in the first study pointed to immune system abnormalities and
since vaccines main job is to screw with the immune system it makes sense to me that it would be looked at. |
Not necessarily. The answer could be that mercury causes epigenetic changes on various "conductors" of the immune system thereby changing their function from 'normal' to abnormal. The abnormalities in the immune system may not originate so much with the immune system itself, but with a deranged conducting system now running amok.
Quote:
| I already know a little about titers (correct me please if I am wrong) they rise and fall according to the bodies immunity, and can be tested against specific diseases. |
True, but their absense doesn't mean you are not immune, since immunity can be cellular and not humoral, and their presence doesn't guarantee immunity because many antibodies aren't "just" one pathogen specific. For instance, Neisseria Lactima (sp?) appears to confer cross immunity in some people to other Neisseria bacteria...
Quote:
| I took this to mean that the amount of immunity ( as shown by the titers) to a specific disease was not the actual degree of immunity. Kind of like a false positive, but in varying degrees? |
I think this is one area where they are flailing in the dark actually. When I first started reading the extensive MRC (Medical Research council) trials for diphtheria vaccine in England, where they compared vaccinated and unvaccinated and how they "reacted" to disease, they struck many "anomalies" along the lines of situations like this:
People would come into hospital with the disease, have antibodies through the roof, and they would make no difference.
Staff members who treated these people sometimes had absolutely no antibodies, but never got diphtheria.
When you read the article you sort of get the impression they just gave up and shrugged.
I read an article about a fully vaccinated man who presented with tetanus and values way higher than the supposed "protection" level. Why? NO explanation. Another case the same, the person was on chemo, and they explained that his antibodies were biologically intact, but immunologically inactive. In other words, they didn't work. Why?
: It was assumed to be the chemo. So what about the other guy not on chem?
:
Aluminium:
this provides another part of the puzzle to the epigenetic bit too....
While they assume most of the effects of aluminum are unknown, 99% of the known effects are very, very bad. You can find a gazillion papers that show all the things that aluminum does once it's in the body:
-it goes directly to the brain
-where it kills brain cells (hey- those can't be replaced)
-and demyelinates neurons
-it causes macrophagic myofasciitis
-1/3 of MMF cases develop into MS or other serious neurological illnesses
-it interrupts or interferes with several brain functions
-it persists at the injection site for many years
-it induces monocytes to differentiate into dendritic cells
-it induces dendritic cells to constitutively express antigen
-it induces overexpression of antigen
-antigen overexpression abnormally stimulates T-cell proliferation
-which causes T-cell autoimmune dysfunction
-it stimulates autoantibodies involved in autoimmune disorders
-it damages the blood brain barrier
-it is has higher brain toxicity in infants
-it induces dendritic cells to constitutively express antigen Explanation:
Aluminium is put into vaccines, because without it, the body will not react to weak strains of antigens. Aluminium is highly reactive, and is a Th2 "skewer". This is the whole reason why aluminum is added to vaccines.
Aluminum causes monocytes to preferentially become dendritic cells. These cells are the antigen presenting cells. They won't react to just, say, "pertussis" on its own. The Aluminium, wakes up, and locks these antigen presenting cells in the 'on' postition. It also creates
more APC's (antigen presenting cells), which is the whole point.
But that can also be a problem. Take SLE for example (Systemic lupus erythematosus)
Researchers know that for some reason dendritic cells present antigen for too long and this allows abnormal antibodies to be produced: autoantibodies. Most SLE researchers think it is because of some genetic reason but it could also be aluminum. Antigen presenting cells from vaccines exist solely to promote an immune response: aluminum ensures that it is an abnormal response.
You need to understand what aluminium can and does do in the body to see how it might act. That is very dependant on the individual immune system, and the nutrition of the person.
J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2003 Dec;49(6):409-13.
Alum augments the experimental allergenicity of Kunitz-type soybean trypsin inhibitor independent of the antigen-adsorption.
Quote:
| In order to inspect the significance of the adsorbing property in the adjuvant activity to enhance IgE production, we immunized BALB/c mice against Kunitz-type soybean trypsin inhibitor (KSTI), the most potent experimental allergen among soybean proteins, associated with Aluminum hydroxide (alum) or DEAE-Sephadex particles. The production of immunoglobulin isotypes was analyzed at the various amounts, 3-3,000 microg per mouse, of the antigen dosages. In our experiments, although alum did not adsorb KSTI significantly, it augmented the total and the antigen-specific IgE without affecting the optimal range of the antigen dosage. On the other hand, alum did not effectively enhance the production of the other immunoglobulin isotypes. The production of immunoglobulin isotypes other than IgE increased dose-dependently on the antigen. These results ensured our previous finding that another protein, ovalbumin, was used as the antigen. We also demonstrated that the adsorption of KSTI by DEAE-Sephadex in the immunizing vehicle resulted in the requirement of more KSTI for accomplishing the equal immunity in BALB/c mice compared to the control. Moreover, we demonstrated that, regardless of the inability to adsorb KSTI, alum exerted its adjuvant activity only when it was co-injected with the antigen. These results showed that some biochemical effect, other than adsorptive activity, to enhance the production of the antigen-specific IgE resides in alum. |
So this then impacts on allergies as well, because Aluminium primarily makes IgE antibodies, which are the ones that the allergy tests look for:
Immunology and Cell Biology (2004) 82: 497–505
Aluminium compounds for use in vaccines
Quote:
| ...the literature provides examples of publications where injection of adjuvant and unadsorbed antigen at distant sites leads to immunostimulation towards the antigen. |
In otherwords, if a baby has eaten something
at the same time as the vaccine with aluminium is given, there is every chance that the aluminium in the vaccine can produce antibodies which, if produced at the same time as that antigen is in the body can produce an allergy to that, whether it is a component of the vaccine, such as gelatine, or a food that the baby has eaten, or more remotely something a breastfeeding mother has eaten, and is now being "eaten" through breastmilk. The same could also apply to inhaled antigens, such as pollen etc, whereby if a child gets a lung full of mite dust, or cat hair, or something environmental at the same time as a vaccine then, given that aluminium stimulates and produces allergy antibodies, wouldn't we expect to see allergies following vaccines with Aluminium in them?
Lets look at other aspects of aluminium as well:
Interestingly macrophages are affected by aluminum as well. They become loaded with aluminum particles which disrupts their function. When macrophages cross the blood brain barrier they take the aluminum with them.
Aluminum can integrate into molecular functions but it is first and foremost a
neurotoxin. Which is why the affinity for the brain and when it gets there it demyelinates neurons. When that happens you get all the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.
Aluminum also alters the permeability of the blood-brain barrier making the brain more accessible to other toxins that you don't want in there. If you have flouride in your water, the combined toxicity is much higher again...
So. Aluminum invades certain cell types, especially monocytes and macrophages. It critically alters their function in a way that is extremely harmful to the person affected.
Aluminum hydroxide in vaccines is highly reactive and separates spontaneously. And since it is injected through the skin right into your tissue it is instantly absorbed and enters the brain. It’s not just a potential risk with vaccines – every AlOH injection puts aluminum right into your brain – every single one. The only known cause of MMF (Macrophagic myofasciitis) is aluminum adjuvanted vaccines. And fully one third of MMF cases develop into multiple sclerosis.
So we are looking at auto-immunity as well.
Gherardi et al. 2001 Macrophagic myofasciitis lesions assess long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide in muscle. Brain, 124:1821-1831
[If you read only one paper about aluminum this should be it.]
Redhead et al. 1992. Aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines transiently increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. Pharmacology and Toxicology, 70:278-280
[Aluminum from vaccines enters the brain almost immediately after it is injected. Also, measurable amounts of aluminum are present at the injection site for up to 8 years after vaccination.]
After you understand that aluminum from vaccines will always enter the brain, these make for good reading:
Yokel. 2000. The toxicology of aluminum in the brain: a review. Neurotoxicology Oct;21(5):813-828
[This paper reviews all the ways that Al affects the brain. It is not about vaccines. Also you could just do a medline search on aluminum and brain and you will find literally a ton of papers describing the adverse effects of Al on the brain. Al is a very potent neurotoxin if it can gain access to the brain.]
Verstraeten et al. 1997. Myelin is a preferential target of aluminum-mediated oxidative damage. Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, 344(2):289-294
[Myelin is the protective protein that coats neurons and covers the spinal cord. Damage to this protein is referred to as demyelination. Multiple sclerosis and autism are prime examples of demyelinating diseases where damage to myelin causes neurological dysfunction.]
Campbell et al. 2000. Aluminum-induced oxidative events and its relation to inflammation: a role for the metal in Alzheimer’s disease. Cellular and Molecular Biology, 46:721-730
[Alzheimer’s is not a genetic disease. It is an age-dependent response to accumulated heavy metal poisoning.]
URL's:
http://www.e2med.com/index.cfm?fusea...DChapIdx=64174
Quote:
Aluminium hydroxide is known to potently stimulate the immune system and to shift responses towards a Th-2 profile. It is possible that persistent systemic immune activation that fails to switch off constitutes the pathophysiological basis of the chronic fatigue syndrome associated with macrophagic myofasciitis and possibly in patients with post-infectious chronic fatigue and idiopathic chronic fatigue syndrome. Therefore, the WHO have recommended an epidemiological survey, currently conducted by the French agency AFSSAPS, aimed at substantiating a possible link between focal macrophagic myofasciitis (or previous immunization with aluminium-containing vaccines) and systemic symptoms.
Interestingly, a special emphasis has been put on Th-2 biased immune responses as a possible explanation of chronic fatigue and associated manifestations known as the Gulf War syndrome. Results from studies of MF may well open new avenues for the aetiological investigation of this syndrome. Indeed, both the type and structure of symptoms are strikingly similar between Gulf War veterans and patients with MF. Multiple vaccinations performed over a short period of time in the Persian Gulf area have been recognized as the main risk factor for the Gulf War syndrome. Moreover, the war vaccine against anthrax, given by a 6-shot regimen, seems to be critically involved and contains aluminum hydroxide as an adjuvant. Squalene is also present and may be another Th2 adjuvant. If safety concerns about the long-term effects of aluminium hydroxide are confirmed, it will be essential to develop novel, alternative adjuvants to re-establish confidence in vaccination and the huge benefits for public health that it provides worldwide. |
Other URLs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
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Second, though you say its not an aluminium issue it related to the original post in that the fact that thiomersal is toxic has been known a long time
Why is it, that only Russia actually studied the issue of thomersal in vaccines, and some time ago, at that? Why did it take USA so long to stop avoiding the issue? If they avoided that issue, what else are they avoiding?
Zh Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol 1983 Mar;(3):87-92 Related Articles, Links
[Evaluation of the toxic action of prophylactic and therapeutic preparations on cell cultures. III. The detection of toxic properties in medical biological preparations by the degree of cell damage in the L132 continuous cell line]
[Article in Russian]
Kravchenko AT, Dzagurov SG, Chervonskaia GP.
The methods of the quality control of medical biological preparations, including tests on animals, do not ensure the complete absence of toxicity in a final product. The use of the method of "subcultures with the introduced preparation" makes it possible to determine the toxicity of both specific and nonspecific components of vaccines and sera from the number of dead and damaged cells. The toxic action of preparations kills and damages the cells at the site of injection, thus inducing the formation of autoantigens whose effect on the body cannot be predicted. Thus thimerosal, commonly used as preservative, has been found not only to render its primary toxic effect, but also capable of changing the properties of cells. This fact suggests that the use of thimerosal for the preservation of medical biological preparations, especially those intended for children, is inadmissible.
PMID: 6845931 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Third:
http://news.bmn.com/news/story?day=030807&story=1
Vaccine ingredients could trigger autoimmune disease
6 August 2003 15:00 GMTby Helen Dell
Mineral oils that are common components of vaccines induce the production of pathogenic autoantibodies and an inflammatory immune response when injected into mice, report US researchers. They suggest that these oils could be inducing autoimmunity in susceptible people. The oils are used as adjuvants in vaccines - substances that enhance the immunogenicity of an antigen. It has been known for some time that some mineral oils can induce autoimmunity in the form of arthritis, indeed they are injected into mice to produce animal models for arthritis.
Carry on Pumpkinsmama... you should be enjoying this by now...
and this will go nowhere but it will be fun trying! If it is ok, I'll try to quote other posters under whatever reply the relevant topic has information compliled so people can just find it all in one spot(? If that makes sense)
or...I think I'll cut and paste one article at a time and try to break it down. I am finding all the pieces slowly, but when I go to put them together I forget what the picture on the front of the box looked like! 
the first one is saying: Epigenetics is studying changes in gene functions that don't happen by changing the DNA. I guess this means the gene is the same but performs differently?
this really bothers me! Actually it makes me (insert expletive here) off.
s
: but really kind of 
, but is slowly coming around as I get more info here and other places.
