A spanking mom verbally attacked me yesterday. REALLY long. - Page 5

[TigerTail]

the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about the way it got handled was that provoking already antagonized people can be dangerous. not even to you so much, but what are those kids going to have to look forward to when they get home? calming your kids down was a worthy goal, but as dr phil would say, how's that workin' for you? i'm guessing everyone involved went home much more upset than they started.

i would have been more likely to get the management to call security & tell them a man was beating a small child & moseying my butt on out once i saw it was being handled. i know that when i had harassing neighbors that let their pit bull out to roam & kill my cat on my front porch, trading comments with them (no matter how right i was or how abusive they sounded) didn't stop the behavior till i called the cops & the dog went at *them*, then the guy did too! (and subsequently went to jail.) they have been pretty quiet in the years since then.

it only ended up with that insane shrew feeling vindicated and you, who tried to do the right thing, getting abused in turn. the cops (and legal spanking or not, any episode as you've described would be considered child abuse) might have made a deeper impression. one that might have led to change.

anyways, it all sounds horrible, hindsight is twenty-twenty, and you certainly didn't *deserve* any of it.

[johub]

Originally Posted by thismama

I don't like passive-aggressive stuff like moving tables. To me all that teaches the children is that mama is afraid to say something, or that the child's predicament isn't our problem.

I would have expected something similar to what you expected, like for her to say MYOB or something like that. But for her to harrass you and become aggressive crosses the line.

But what if your nature is passive-agressive! LOL And if mama IS afraid to say something or doesnt imagine that she can have any real affect on the child's predicament. I am not saying these things are right. But just as we try to respect our children's inborn temperaments, it is sometimes hard to respect our own.

And yes, "mind your own business" would have been the civilized response and what she did DID completely cross the line. But these people were already across the line when they started hitting their baby.

[guest^]

To the OP......you didn't do a damn thing wrong. Her harrassement spells guilty for her.

One time my sis was BFing my then 3yo nephew in a nice Indian restaurant, when she saw a woman across the room keep hitting her *highchaired* baby on her head each time the baby *reached*! for something. My sis kept getting more and more upset witnessing this.....so she stood up and walked over to the lady and told her how hard parenting can be-then handed her a piece of paper with GD content. THE WOMAN GRABBED MY SIS AROUND THE NECK AND SLAMMED HER HEAD TO THE TABLE,YELLING AT HER TO NOT TELL HER HOW TO RAISE HER KIDS!!!!!! The police were called, and the woman was taken away. : You never know, but I would do the same thing. What b*tch*s!!! Can you even imagine the home life????

mp

[Butterflymagic]

I am a Christian and I don't spank my children ...I use to spank though in my not knowing better days. The woman must have a very low opinion of herself,to carry on like that,actions like that are what give Christians a well not so nice name.I would have reported the family to the management because that was abuse in public,here in Illinois you can get in big trouble for spanking in public,it is abuse.

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by mamapoppins

THE WOMAN GRABBED MY SIS AROUND THE NECK AND SLAMMED HER HEAD TO THE TABLE,YELLING AT HER TO NOT TELL HER HOW TO RAISE HER KIDS!!!!!! The police were called, and the woman was taken away. : You never know, but I would do the same thing. What b*tch*s!!! Can you even imagine the home life????

mp

WOWZERS!!!!!

[Hey Mama!]

What if the op had an insistent dc demanding to know why that boy was getting hit? My oldest dd will escalate her questions until I answer them, there is no way I could have avoided commenting on the situation. But, op, you handled it much better then I would have, I would have gone off on the b*&%^.

I feel so bad for the poor baby, he was probably over stimulated by it all.

[annab]

Originally Posted by mamapoppins

One time my sis was BFing my then 3yo nephew in a nice Indian restaurant, when she saw a woman across the room keep hitting her *highchaired* baby on her head each time the baby *reached*! for something. My sis kept getting more and more upset witnessing this.....so she stood up and walked over to the lady and told her how hard parenting can be-then handed her a piece of paper with GD content. THE WOMAN GRABBED MY SIS AROUND THE NECK AND SLAMMED HER HEAD TO THE TABLE,YELLING AT HER TO NOT TELL HER HOW TO RAISE HER KIDS!!!!!! The police were called, and the woman was taken away.

Holy frijoles! That is just unbelievable.

[m9m9m9]

Originally Posted by Sheena

I mean, she was RIGHT behind me and could have definitely heard my conversation but if she was particularly listening she would have for sure heard us.

I understand your were upset and you wanted to say something and I think it would have been fine to actually say something directly to the woman but to use the passive aggressive technique of speaking through your child is most likely what set the woman off.

I think PPs are right ~ you don't know how a stranger will react to such comments (and i am going to say that a man smacking around his toddler is not someone I would want to confront nor his content-with-the-situation wife). Ant that story about the woman in the Indian restaurant is very scary.

I have made my fair share of comments to moms in the past and have been lucky in that it doesn't go past a few nasty comments my way but after reading through this thread, I will think twice before confronting someone directly and instead look for a manager/security/police to deal with the situation.

Maggie

[Carolinamidwife]

understand your were upset and you wanted to say something and I think it would have been fine to actually say something directly to the woman but to use the passive aggressive technique of speaking through your child is most likely what set the woman off.

For pete's sake... you're making assumptions here, and I have already addressed them once. I wasn't being passive aggressive, I was simply speaking. Is it passive aggressive any time I speak to my kids? Must I always consider everyone around me before I make statements.

[m9m9m9]

Sheena - I am sorry if you think I was making assumptions but I was honestly going by your posts:

Originally Posted by Sheena

I turned to my kids and said, "Spanking is wrong, mommies and daddies should not hit their kids." Then I said something to dh about how I hate seeing that in public.

Originally Posted by Sheena

I mean, she was RIGHT behind me and could have definitely heard my conversation but if she was particularly listening she would have for sure heard us.

I think it is fine to speak up when you see something like this, I believe it is far better to actually speak directly to the person as this probably will not produce the ire that it did in this particular person.

And because I think I am starting to act like the restaurant lady here...I will stop posting.

[WuWei]

Sheena, thank you for speaking up.....loudly enough to make a difference.

Pat

[Apryl Srissa]

Originally Posted by phaeon

*putting on my Tyvek flame-proof suit*
While I TOTALLY agree that spanking is wrong on many levels, I also see a touch of hypocrisy here with regards to parents' rights. Many MDC mamas complain about being criticized for NIP, for cosleeping, for babywearing, for choosing homebirth, etc. These are very non-mainstream ideas, and yet we (MDCers) constantly complain about being harassed with respect to these choices. And how do you feel when your parenting decisions are attacked? Angry! Bitter! Outraged!! You come to MDC and post a rant and all the other like-minded mamas support you in your tirade! Hmmm..

Spanking is, like it or not, a mainstream parenting technique, and unfortunately, many parents resort to it. Those parents believe as fervently as you do not that spanking is an important part of discipline. While I find it revolting and stomach-churning, I have to swallow the bile and remember that *my* parenting choices are just as repulsive to some people. What if you were NIP, and another parent pulled their child aside and said, "oh, honey, some people are just so obscene to do things like that"? Obviously that parent is , but how would you feel? Especially if your nursling was old enough to understand the comment?? I'm not trying to defend the spanker. I think the guy was a jerk and could have used a million other approaches to help his child with the situation. (I also think there is a difference between spanking a diapered butt and backhanding your wife. And I'm assuming he was "spanking" and not "beating" the child--that's a different bag of chips.) But, like it or not, he has a legal right to raise his kid the way he thinks is best. So do you. Would you like someone coming in and telling you that you could no longer cosleep, because it was dangerous? (That day might yet come, if the crib manufacturers have their way!!) What if someone tried to arrest you or take away your baby after your homebirth, because it was considered child endangerment???

I think you were right to explain to your child that you believe spanking is wrong. But I think that a$$ also had a right to assert his authority as a parent, even though I totally disagree with his method, and that you kind of crossed the line by saying it loud enough for them to hear.

All that said , I think the mom was jerky for following you around and harassing you. Although, I must admit, if you criticized me loud enough for my kids and myself to hear you, I would probably tell you off, too!

I guess my point is not that it's OK to spank, but more that we have to be very careful about telling others how to parent-- lest someone come in and tell *us* how *we* should be doing things. There is a very fine line here, and it goes both ways. PS: hugs to you for having to deal with this situation in the first place.

I agree completely. I find spanking totally wrong, and would probably have upset kids if my kids saw that so would have to explain to them also. But I think if we were talking 'mild spanking' vs beating I would try to be quiet about just for that same reason. Except for one thing, a less than 2 year old isn't capable of stopping a melt down just cuz Dad said to, so a spanking is not at all ok. That isn't spanking a kid, that is venting cuz your angry at your toddler. I am pretty sure that I remember reading somewhere that there are some laws about that in some state, concerning really young little ones. Guess once they are a bit bigger, they are considered ok to knock around :

Either way, I'm so glad for those kiddos that they heard you say that. At least they know it isn't them. Hopefully that was a rare occurance in their family, but if not the kids heard some hope. The families I have known that spank don't do it often, so I do think that it is more rare than it used to be. And I totally agree that kids DO need discipline, often way more than they are given. But discipline and hitting aren't the same thing. To me, discipline is about teaching my child how to behave and how to handle himself, not to do what I say no matter what. Assuming he'll ever leave my sight, I want him to have his own judgement, not be just doing what he is told.

[Dal]

phaeon, hope there aren't any holes in your suit! I'm sure that some people had (and still have) the same attitude about a man hitting a woman in public (provided the woman is his wife or, in some cases, his sister or another female relative). Some things are WRONG. Someone can insult and judge me nursing Simon in public all they want. Guess what? I won't be threatened by that. I'm confident in my choices and if they want to be rude when I am doing what is in Simon's best interests... so be it. I'll either shoot them a dirty look or try to educate them. What I won't do is pretend that it's o.k. to go about hitting children in public. It sounds like this happens A LOT in the states. More people need to be speaking up against it so that it becomes a taboo there as it is in other parts of the world. I am SO SO SO thankful that public spanking so rarely happens here (I'm in Ontario, Canada) that I've yet to see it. I'm sure that it was common enough not too long ago that it would have been seen in public.

After a heated exchange like the one Sheena describes, people often dwell over what was said and continue to think things out. Some are even inclined to do further research on the issue -- which is something I would insist if arguing with someone who thinks that spanking is necessary and good parenting or someone who thinks that nursing past a year or whatever is disgusting. If people think these out in relation to extended nursing and do more research about it, they are far more apt to come to the position here advocated than is the case in relation to doing more research about spanking. Of course, some people will only turn to James Dobson for advice... but the more public outrage against spanking, the better. Even die-hard Dobsonians don't want to be condemned as a bad parent in public.

Even if one thinks that spanking is o.k., how about the fact that this act was in public, and done to a young toddler? Let's add public humiliation and corporeal punishment simply FOR BEING UPSET/OVERWHELMED by ChuckECheeze (or whatever loud toddler-unfriendly place they were at) into the mix. Good grief. I'd be repulsed if there were plenty of people around and no one bothered to so much as hint at the FACT that the response of the father was totally inappropriate. When such a thing happens to a woman getting beaten on the street, the newspapers find it worthy of reporting. Sure this is on a lesser scale, but it is happening to a defenseless child who is simply overwhelmed by his surroundings. GRRRRRR.

[bamamom]

You did a great thing, mama.

[shanagirl]

I interpret your actions as trying to deal with a very disturbing scene and trying to make sure your child didn't become distressed and saying the calmest, strongest statement you could to reassure your child. I haven't read all the previous posts but has anyone mentioned how utterly disturbing it is--for all the right reasons-- to observe a grown person beating a toddler? It's supposed to bother us.

You did put yourself on the line by saying something she could hear. The fact that she blew up at you and followed you around...well, I would tell myself, that's pretty much what you could expect from someone who thinks it's ok to beat their toddler in public. The best definition I saw of spanking --the one that made me think the most-- was that it is a parental temper tantrum--unable or unwilling to find a better way. And I say that as someone who did hit my child on the bottom once out of sheer frustration and never wanted to do it again when I saw my 84 year old father crying at the memory of how his father beat him as a child. How deeply those memories get buried and how long they last is no mystery to me anymore.

Sometimes speaking up is hard, and you take a verbal beating but I'm old enough to have seen that more often than not you do plant a seed with someone in those moments, altho maybe not your intended recipient. It sounds to me like you kept your cool with a very good thought: you don't have to hurt your children to discipline them. That's a rich seed. You hit a raw nerve.

Where is the phrase from that says evil is when good people do nothing?

[shanagirl]

Found it: All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. --Edmund Burke

[Treasuremapper]

Wow. Call 911 next time and report child abuse in progress. Outrageous.

I am so proud of you for saying something. Way to go!

[Pookietooth]

It sounds like she was feeling guilty about it, and taking it out on you. Abusing you, as it were, for calling out her dh's abuse. to you. Hope your kids weren't too traumatized by the whole insane scene.

[AntoninBeGonin]

This is the first time I've had time to read this thread, and I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you had to meet those horrible parents. to you and your family for having to endure their attacks.

~Nay

[mamaverdi]

WOW. This was the talk of our dinner table tonight. I can't believe that CRAZY woman. And her husband.

I'm speechless.....

Except to say: I would have given anything as a child to hear someone say that it wasn't me: that it was them (my parents). That they were wrong to do what they were doing. Very wrong.

If I were that lady's children, no matter if I got beaten later for it or not, I would have held on to that my whole life.

That and: we don't have to hurt children to discipline them.

mv