How/where are you giving birth? - Page 4

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by chiromama

Yes, Mothering has had many articles against scheduled c-sections, but I think healthy living baby/healthy living mom comes before activism.

I thought healthy living baby, and healthy living mom was the point of activism.
I think most everyone who is "Anti-c-section" is anti elective, anti "no reason" anti "because my doctor said so"... not "anti c-section for those mothers who would literally die without it".
Maybe I just read something different into it.

[emdeecee_sierra]

Originally Posted by crazyknitter

& if this is the tone that you will taking here, then I suggest you not particpate.

You suggest that, huh? Gosh, thanks for the invite..... I could find THAT highly offensive, since THAT was directed directly to ME. But I don't, I will just move on.

[emdeecee_sierra]

Originally Posted by chiromama

Actually her first post said "just to give everyone a heads-up for the next 9 months we're on the board together ." with multiple soap boxes.... that seemed pretty much on the offense to me. Like... beware, i'll judge your choice. Maybe I'm just reading that into it,

Yes, you were just reading that into it as that was absolutely not my intention. If it had been, I would have said so.

A MASCR happened to me and I dislike that it happens to women so often. It is a travesty. Did I say, "Women should forego surgery at the risk of their child's life"? Nope.

No offense intended and no one should have taken it that way. I'm done with the subject; this is completely off topic and will probably cause the thread, a worthy one otherwise, to be shut down. Anyone want to discuss it further via pm I'm fine with that.

[crazyknitter]

<delted was supposed to be a PM>

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by crazyknitter

<delted was supposed to be a PM>

Some of us still subscribed to this thread got it in our inboxes.

"Yes, please do move on. Since according to your FF chart you are not part of the sept 06 ddc. I have no idea why you would put that here????"

That was mean. According to her chart, she had a miscarriage.

[Pynki]

I think we need to remembner where we are. We are at Mothering.com. Mothering supports mothers and their attatchment to their children. It does not support elective or forced c/sec. There is a VBAC forum, but no C/Sec forum because it is not inline with Mothering.com principles. Her words may have been strong, but they are hers and no less valid than anyone else's. They belong here like everyone else's and are inline with what Mothering.com holds as true.

Yes, there are times when surgical births save lives, BUT they are not the majority of the surgeries that happen. Now women are being forced to have thier children removed surgically. The reason it is acceptable to do so is because surgical births are deemed acceptable in a wide array of instances when they just shouldn't be.

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by Pynki

I think we need to remembner where we are. We are at Mothering.com. Mothering supports mothers and their attatchment to their children. It does not support elective or forced c/sec. There is a VBAC forum, but no C/Sec forum because it is not inline with Mothering.com principles.

Personally, I find this a shame. Hopefully a more accurate statement is "Mothering supports vaginal birth and VBAC, not elective or forced c/s." I sincerely hope that women who have elective or forced c/s deserve support as mothers and their attachment to their children. Why can't MDC include a forum for women who have c/s and resonate with the MDC philosophy? You can support women who chose or wind up with a c/s without promoting the "c/s was the most convenient way for me to give birth" mentality. Why does a c/s exclude you from the "club"? I think it would be absolutely fabulous if c/s could be embraced in a healthy and balanced way, because sometimes it IS a part of birth. What's the middle ground between "vaginal birth or bust" and "coerced into a c/s"?

The idea that there's no c/s forum because it's not in line with MDC principles is really irritating to me. It's like saying if you have a c/s you just flunked your first test of motherhood and if it's not included it in the forums then the underlying message is there's never a good reason for it to happen. I think MDC could provide an excellent service to women by creating a c/s forum. Not only would it help those of us who know we'll be birthing via c/s ahead of time, but for every woman planning to give birth, sometimes the unexpected happens and wouldn't it be better for everyone to be informed in our choices and options so the best could be made of the situation? Couldn't we all learn from each other?

It's a delicate balance. How can MDC support women in their quest for the most optimal birth realizing that a) sometimes a c/s is a woman's optimal birth for a variety of reasons and b) sometimes a c/s happens due to unpredictable circumstances and those women need support too! And no that doesn't mean you just sold out to the "a c/s is far easier and more convenient than a vaginal birth" mentality.

Lisa

[littleteapot]

You'd have to take that up with CM, I'm sure it's been brought up before and thre's still no "I like c-sections" alongside "I like VBACs".
Mothering and MDC are all about natural living, activism, protecting women and educating them. Of course they support women, but you have to realize the VBAC voice is louder than the c-section voice. This doesn't mean that MDC is anti-c-section by default, it just means they are much more supportive of VBAC in cases when it can be done.
Surely there are extremely, extremely rare times when a mother is forced to have a c-section every time because of being truly incapable of vaginal birth. Just as there are very rare cases of women who truly cannot breastfeed.

Then there are others who choose it selfishly. Maybe because, "I'm uncomfortable" or, "I've gone over by four days and that sucks". Maybe someone has done it out of fear or ignorance - don't they deserve to know that it doesn't have to be that way? It happens all the time.
If we silence one side because of being afraid to offend the good nature of the other, that defeats the purpose of activism all together. Especially when that one side wasn't even speaking to anyone but themselves.

[HomeBirthMommy]

I am truly frustrated by unnecessary c-sections as I would think almost all women on this board would be, but I *do* see how a c-section forum could be helpful. I was talking about this subject this morning with a very AP friend who had 2 necessary c-sections. She pointed out that AP parents need to hear feedback of each other to learn how to do certain things after a c-section, like breastfeeding and co-sleeping. We need to remember that the women here are smart and want the best for their children and this needs to be a resource for helping them to do this.

[crazyknitter]

I used to be a birth junkie, & parts of me still is. I am a trained doula & have been present at birth, as a participant & a helper. There is nothing more amazing than birth. I believe in home birth. I believe in natural birth. I had a planned home birth for my last child. I had the tub in the living room for weeks. Then my child died. Not during birth, mind you. I was severly overdue & never went into labor, and she just died. Had I had medical intervention, I truly wonder, would she have died? I will never know. But that is not a risk I am ever willing to take ever again. Home birth failed me. I tried with all my heart to "trust the process".
So

Originally Posted by Pynki

It does not support elective or forced c/sec.

does this mean I am not welcome here now because I will choose to have this child surgically born?? Does it mean I am less than what Mothering.com reprsents as a community?? I hope not, because to me, Mothering.com is more than babies coming out of our vaginas. It about many many things, birthing just a small part of it. Just as birthing is really small on the grand scheme of being a mother. I think I now know what ddc group I will be a part of. Perhaps one where openess to all choices without judgement is present.

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by HomeBirthMommy

I am truly frustrated by unnecessary c-sections as I would think almost all women on this board would be, but I *do* see how a c-section forum could be helpful. I was talking about this subject this morning with a very AP friend who had 2 necessary c-sections. She pointed out that AP parents need to hear feedback of each other to learn how to do certain things after a c-section, like breastfeeding and co-sleeping. We need to remember that the women here are smart and want the best for their children and this needs to be a resourse for helping them to do this.

There's at least one rather long "support for c-section mom" threads on various birth or FYT forums.

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by crazyknitter

I used to be a birth junkie, & parts of me still is. I am a trained doula & have been present at birth, as a participant & a helper. There is nothing more amazing than birth. I believe in home birth. I believe in natural birth. I had a planned home birth for my last child. I had the tub in the living room for weeks. Then my child died. Not during birth, mind you. I was severly overdue & never went into labor, and she just died. Had I had medical intervention, I truly wonder, would she have died? I will never know. But that is not a risk I am every willing to take ever again. Home birth failed me. I tried with all my heart to "trust the process".

I'm sorry about your loss, I suffered infant loss as well. My son died following an emergency (and completely unnecessary) c-section just three months ago. If I'd had medical intervention I would have been offered an abortion, and I am extremely grateful for those eight long, beautiful and undisturbed months I carried him within me.

It doesn't sound like homebirth failed you; circumstances did. Stillbirths are not caused by going overdue, they are caused by other factors. With that in mind, I suppose I don't understand (unless you have a very serious condition, or this next baby does) what a scheduled c-section would do... No judgement, but I do want to know to help me understand why you're so passionate about elective c-sections.

[crazyknitter]

[QUOTE=littleteapot]. Stillbirths are not caused by going overdue, they are caused by other factors. With that in mind, I suppose I don't understand (unless you have a very serious condition, or this next baby does) what a scheduled c-section would do... No judgement, but I do want to know to help me understand why you're so passionate about elective c-sections[/QUOTE

That is not true. Statisticly risk for stillbirth increases as the age of the placenta increases. The placenta does degenerate & fail. Babies do go backwards. Fortunately, many women will go into labor. Some do not. I did not. Others I have met on this grief journey did not. Babies do die from being severly overdue.
This was the 3rd time I did not go into labor on my own. Both my living children were 42 weeks overdue & I do not go into labor. This time, I chose midwifery cause I did not want to be induced again. Little did I know, that inducing my older children, probbly save their lives.
I take exception to

you're so passionate about elective c-sections

this. I am passionate about women having living breathing babies. I do not wish for another baby to die. If it takes making an educated choice to have a surgical birth to ensure a living breathing child, then so be it. And I, nor any other women should not be critized or judged for making that choice.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by crazyknitter

So does this mean I am not welcome here now because I will choose to have this child surgically born?? Does it mean I am less than what Mothering.com reprsents as a community?? I hope not, because to me, Mothering.com is more than babies coming out of our vaginas. It about many many things, birthing just a small part of it. Just as birthing is really small on the grand scheme of being a mother. I think I now know what ddc group I will be a part of. Perhaps one where openess to all choices without judgement is present.

Mothering.com is supposed to be a place that welcome all mothers and families in their journey to AP and extended to NFL. (Which aren't the same but seem to used interchangable around here sometimes. ) It has some things it will not host however. It has been brought up time and again and, Mothering.com will not sponsor forums on formula feeding regardless of the reasons, elective c/section, or c/section support, and corporeal punishment. Those aren't my rules, they are the rules as laid down by the admin, and alot of times I don't neccesarily agree with them, but I also realize not every forum or message board can fit all of my needs.

[littleteapot]

Placenta degeneration is linked more to placenta problems than being overdue. Placenta degeneration happens at 36 weeks, 38 weeks, and 43 weeks... A significant amount of mothers go 3+ weeks overdue. If you have documented problems with your placentas, then obviously it's a good idea to be monitored.

I do not wish for another baby to die. If it takes making an educated choice to have a surgical birth to ensure a living breathing child, then so be it. And I should not be critized for making that choice.

I have yet to see anyone criticize you directly. Please try not to take everyone's opinions on VBAC so personally. I think I may be one of the only people who has directly addressed you, and I've asked you questions regarding your circumstance. There's no need to be so hostile or to read hostility into my words.

[liseux]

I don`t think any of us should have to feel the need to explain why we are choosing the births we are. Those of us who have experienced loss absolutely do not need to explain a thing. I have been on both sides, unassisted pregnancy & c/s. Everybody has strong reasons for their choices, some of us were lucky and had everything work out the way we planned & some of us lived our worst nightmares. Obviously everyone here knows the basics, this is not a "keep my vagina tight and cut my belly" type of place. So if we can be gentle and positive with each other, maybe we can make our points about alternatives, but I can relate to turning to UC after a bad experience, and I can relate to turning to C/s.

When I was first pregnant after my loss, I couldn`t trust my body to deliver a baby b/c it had failed me hugely. I wasn`t going to mention it here in fear of scaring pregnant moms, but I was reading all of these posts & I thought it fit. I had a completely wonderful UP & then I had a normal labor that ended in a severe and unresolveable shoulder dystocia. My son lost too much oxygen, he obviously came out finally, but he lived in a coma for 7 weeks. I also had a big hemhorrage that was very scary and b/c of that I got rh sensitized. I had a lay mw there at the delivery and she knew exactly what to do with s.d. but it was too severe. My last pregnancy I actually had dreams about a beautiful c/s and I felt I had no other choice, for me it was terrifying to think of being powerless to help another baby. B/c of the rh issue, the baby did need to come out in a hurry. I did have a wonderful c/s and it was by far the most reverent-of-the baby of all 3 of my births. I also had the easiest recovery of all 3, but I had 2 bad tears before. I can totally see how a c/s could be horrific though, it just wasn`t in my experience, but the vag. births were.

The funny thing is that this time I feel totally different, maybe I`ll vbac, I have to see what feels best later on. I think one of the hardest things for me was feeling that even though I am a big AP/NFL mama that having a c/s was not totally fitting in. And then I stopped caring, b/c being rigid is one of the things my beloved second son cured me of. I guess what I`m trying to say is that I have never joined a ddc before, but here its a given that boys won`t be carved up for no reason, that babies will be breastfed, that people are educated. I support everybody`s choices in birth b/c I know none of us are taking it lightly & we are here in a great position to be supportive of each other.

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by littleteapot

Then there are others who choose it selfishly. Maybe because, "I'm uncomfortable" or, "I've gone over by four days and that sucks". Maybe someone has done it out of fear or ignorance - don't they deserve to know that it doesn't have to be that way? It happens all the time.
If we silence one side because of being afraid to offend the good nature of the other, that defeats the purpose of activism all together. Especially when that one side wasn't even speaking to anyone but themselves.

I guess I'd hope that we could all keep in mind that what one person considers to be a "wise and wonderful" choice is what somebody else considers to be a "fear and ignorance" choice. It's all about perspective. I am by no means advocating that ANYBODY be silenced. Yes women need to be educated about birth. What I am passionately and strongly AGAINST is the rigid judgement of one side by the other. This, in my opinion, does no favors to anyone and only creates more hostility, misunderstanding, and alienation. All we can do is make our own best choice. My best choice may not be yours and vice versa.

I also find it completely and utterly inappropriate to be debating with someone who experienced a still birth about their birth choices. She didn't ask for your input. This is a perfect example of similar experiences leading women to different decisions in the future. Your perfect decision is not hers and vice versa. Who knows what decisions we would make if we were to walk in those shoes. If I have learned anything on my journey it is that what I once thought was so black and white is anything but.

Lisa

[AntoninBeGonin]

I'd like to try UA, but Dh feels better with someone else with us. So we compromised with homebirth--midwife. I'm going to tell her not to bother me unless something goes wrong

~Nay

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by LisaG

I also find it completely and utterly inappropriate to be debating with someone who experienced a still birth about their birth choices. She didn't ask for your input. This is a perfect example of similar experiences leading women to different decisions in the future. Your perfect decision is not hers and vice versa. Who knows what decisions we would make if we were to walk in those shoes. If I have learned anything on my journey it is that what I once thought was so black and white is anything but.

I never implied or said any of this, I was asking questions for clarification, and my comments about selfish c-sections were of no reflection on her.

"Too posh to push" is a different animal, and one that is unfortunately popular in this day and age.

[daisysmom]

I had my first at home in a birthing pool with a midwife and wanted to have my second at home too, but my water was leaking and my contractions never progressed. I waited until I had been in labor for 22 hours before I went to the hospital though. I did have two very good experiences though. I had a really good doctor who was completely supportive of natural childbirth. I felt bad though, after 30 hours I was so exhausted I got an epidural (something that still surprises me). It was just what I needed at the time though, I was able to stay awake and deliver when it finally came time.

I wish I could plan a home birth with this baby, but this pregnancy is high-risk so I really don't have a choice. I have to deliver at the hospital for both my and the baby's sake. Hopefully I will still have a really good birthing experience.