Exploring Gentle Discipline

[rootzdawta]

Please bear with me . . .

I was raised in an authoritarian household where my father's word was law. He prided himself on "breaking our will/spirit" and was not above spanking, some of which I think may have bordered on abuse. Of course, I know my father loves me but I often wonder how a person who loved me could cause me so much pain, anxiety and fear. To this day, I refuse to sit diagonally from my father in the backseat of of the car because I remember being backslapped for some misdeed that, incidentally, I don't even remember. I hardly remember any of the reasons why I received spankings but . . . all I know is that I want to do it differently with my child.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with African or African-American ways of raising children but in our culture it is extremely important to honor your family. If I were to throw a fit in the grocery store the way I see some children doing, it would definitely merit me a warning glance and a spanking when I got home. The older I got, the glance was enough to put me back in line. You do not embarrass your parents or else. Most AA's (including dh) that I know now would laugh me to scorn for even thinking about not spanking my child, not yelling, not punishing, etc. . . I mean, even when I see children acting out in the store, my immediate and reflexive response is "someone needs to snatch up that child." This is the culture I grew up in.

However, gentle discipline seems to me a way to allow children a great deal of freedom to develop into who they will be. I don't know, yet, how comfortable I am with all that freedom. Let me try to explain and I hope no one gets offended. In a society where Black people make up the minority, it is not always the best situation for a child to feel entirely free. It is my responsibility as a parent to make sure that my son/daughter knows how and when and how fast to cut out undesirable behavior. I will refer you to that little girl who was put in handcuffs in Florida for acting out . . . not to get into racial issues but I highly doubt that if the girl had been white, it would have been handled that way. Long story short, children of color are treated more harshly by this society and given less leeway. That's a fact. I mean, working at predominantly White schools and then at predominantly Black/Latino schools, it's painfully obvious. Do I do a disservice to my child by practicing GD--no punishment/rewards, etc . . . when I know that at times I will really need my child to get in line immediately?

I like that GD goes against the whole will-breaking thing that happened in my life but I want to raise children who can function well in this society? Does this make sense? I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Wow, this is a really interesting and complex question. I don't feel qualified to answer some of the greater cultural or racial issues but I can definitely speak about GD because it's how I was raised and is what's working for my child who is now 4.

My experience has been that a child who is raised GD has a strong sense of belonging in the world and will function well (considering the society isn't entirely broken and damaged). However, it's a process and I do think there are stages where this person is is less able, struggling to fit in, shocked by harshness of the world.

But, I come to GD from a place where I feel comfortable with DC not fitting in when society is "messed" up and this is just what you're concerned with and I can see why.

While I'm thinking about this, I keep coming back to you so I'll just speak to that for a while. Can you even parent authoritatively? Can you do it while maintaining a good relationship with your child? These are the first questions I would ask myself.

Then, I think I would ask some deeper ethical questions. Where do you draw the line between preservation and your own values? (how sad that anyone should have to ask themselves that question)

Then there are the odds. What is the likelyhood that your child will be better protected by being parented authoritatively compared to being parented with GD. I guess this is the main question, ha?

My completely unresearched opinion is that your young child will be safer with GD but that there will be a few patches here and there where it will be more difficult for her/him. But, as an young adult, I think your child will be much safer and will be a happier more healthy person in general.

[jrayn]

I am by no means a GD expert, my daughter is only 12 months but I don't want her to be spanked - she is African American and White, and her daddy wants to spank, he was spanked, his father is a strong believer in spanking as you put it, it is part of the African American culture. I was spanked also but I do a lot of research and have come to the conclusion that spanking isn't the right way - it certainly didn't teach me to not do the things I got spanked for, only to fear my father if I made certain mistakes, couldn't control natural childish impulses etc, and then resent him, not what I did.

I am hoping that as our children get into school younger generations will be in charge and it wont be so difficult for minorities although I haven't seen what you have first hand that I can remember, I have heard of it happening and am sure it does happen.
I have only seen one family that uses GD, I don't see many families with children and one of the children may have some food allergies or something that is causing him to have symptoms of ADHD so he is not the best example for the results and the other is only 4 and he doesn't act up too much.

But when your child is in school, teachers can not hit the child so that child would loose the incentive to obey and from what I have read, children that are spanked have more of a tendency to hit others (I did in school and I scratched to the point of drawing blood!! ) Spanking teaches the child to fear the spanker not to understand or feel bad about the action.
Also it hinders the child's ability to solve problems nonviolently as they get older (my dp has a hard time with this and has reacted violently to other men and it is something that comes to my mind as well, I have the will power not to react and am learning problem solving methods)
I don't like how they reacted towards that little girl in FL but that little girl was acting very violently and punched the principal - More then likely she comes from a family that uses spanking, so is it really a disservice not to spank?
Sometimes a childs personality is naturally aggressive but there are so many ways to discipline and teach a child how to control him/herself besides spanking, the pros outway the cons, just start reading some no spank websites and mothering as well - the people on this website are so helpful it is my first place to come for advice!

[AntoninBeGonin]

Don't know what to say, just that I hope things work out for you. Go with your gut, if it says GD, then that's what you should use. You're right, things are different between African-Americans, other minorities, and whites.

Too bad Martin Luther King, Jr.'s dream hasn't come true yet.

**Hugs** to you, Mama.

~Nay

[AngelBee]

:

[The4OfUs]

Although I cannot begin to address the cultural or racial aspects of discipline and the different things you will have to consider in raising your children (and it really saddens me that you should have to do so), I can assure you that it is absolutely possible to have a child that is parented with no spanking, yelling, or shaming, but the parent remains an authority figure. I was raised that way. Everything I write below is obviously based on my own experience and my own beliefs, which clearly are not held by everyone on this forum. Hopefully, some of it will be helpful to you. So, here I go:

Some here will argue that a parent exerting any kind of control or authority over their child is not gentle. I respectfully disagree. I think it has everything to do with the intent of the parent, AND the perception of the child.

As a child, I perceived that my parents had my best interests at heart, and that any decisions they made were for not only my own safety and well being, but also for our family to run smoothly and harmoniously. My parents' intent when I was an young child was to lay out a framework for me that would help me develop independence as I grew, help me be considerate of others, and help me discover who I was as a person. Within that framework they had limits and boundaries, and they were consistent and firm.

The thing my mom did, was she was "there" (and I DON'T mean staying at home versus working outside the home). If I was 3, and she asked me to pick up my toys, and after a few minutes I didn't, then she would start picking them up and talking to me about doing it together. No anger, no shaming, no "why can't you do things when I ask", just her alongside me, smiling, talking about why were were picking up the toys now. I have been doing this with my DS for a while now (after a few weeks of falling into the 'multiple request, then snap in frustration' thing, which is NOT where I wanted to be)...facilitating after the first request makes it more likely everyone is still in a good mood, and there won't be a power struggle. AND, it shows your child that when things are requested, they will get done one way or another...when you combine that with modeling cooperation in other aspects of life, it naturally happens that your child wants to help. My DS is now starting to 'clean up' sometimes on his own, saying, "clean, clean, clean" while he does it, a big old smile on his face.

If there was a limit or boundary that I was pushing or testing, mom would calmly, gently explain why the limit was there, empathize with me, and then we'd move on. She kept her explanations brief and age appropriate, so there was no melodrama. I don't want to imply that she was cold at all, not that kind of calm or brief - it was a warm, loving calm....big difference.

I was allowed to make many decisions in regards to my own life (as appropriate for my age), but I also had to function within the family - that meant that sometimes I didn't get my way, but sometimes I did. This also helped teach me that minor disappointments are OK...that even if I didn't get what I wanted that time, I would some other time. I know some here don't agree with that, but I think it is very important. My parents didn't go looking for ways to not give me what I wanted, but they also didn't make a huge deal about it when I didn't. Again, they would explain, empathize, and move on. The empathy helped me feel validated, and the explaining helped me understand the 'why'...the moving on helped me internalize 'little disappointments' from big ones, and they showed a range of empathy depending on the situation. What they never did is tell me to just get over it, or downplay my emotions. They just helped me work through them and move on.

There was a LOT of joy, silliness, and play in my childhood. I think their willingness to be goofy with me made me realize they really did value and love me and were willing to be there with me on my level, and that any limits they did impose were for good reason (and they were always willing to explain their reasons, even if I didn't agree with them). I can still remember leading a parade down our street, with my mom, dad, and aunt, full grown adults, in the 'costumes' I made for them - I was probably around 5. They took great pleasure in having fun and being silly with me, and that really helped us connect.

I know this post has been all over the place, sorry for that. I guess basically I want to let you know that you CAN raise your child without yelling, shaming, or spanking, and still be 'in charge', if that is how you want to do it - and that being ' in charge' doesn't necessarily mean that you're a power hungry control freak, but that you have certain beliefs about children's mental, emotional, and social development, and what a parents' role is in guiding them as they develop (there is a very wide range of beliefs in this forum as to what children's developmental abilities are at different ages, and what a parent's role is in helping them to grow - many here will not agree with a lot of what I have written above, but some will). You can be silly and playful and not worry about being ' just their friend' as opposed to 'their parent', if that worries you. The thing is, you have to "be there" to back up what you say and do right away in a calm, pleasant manner (I know no one is perfect, but it's a goal to strive for). It's exhausting, trust me. But also trust me that it pays off in the end. I'm living proof. I LOVE my parents, and respect them for the way they raised me, gently, but with definite boundaries and expectations; and always there to help me along if needed.

I wish you the best of luck in navigating the intricacies of parenthood!!

I have to run to an appointment, but will check back later on today to see if anyone else has any thoughts for you

[johub]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

I guess basically I want to let you know that you CAN raise your child without yelling, shaming, or spanking, and still be 'in charge', if that is how you want to do it - and that being ' in charge' doesn't necessarily mean that you're a power hungry control freak, but that you have certain beliefs about children's mental, emotional, and social development, and what a parents' role is in guiding them as they develop (there is a very wide range of beliefs in this forum as to what children's developmental abilities are at different ages, and what a parent's role is in helping them to grow - many here will not agree with a lot of what I have written above, but some will). You can be silly and playful and not worry about being ' just their friend' as opposed to 'their parent', if that worries you. The thing is, you have to "be there" to back up what you say and do right away in a calm, pleasant manner (I know no one is perfect, but it's a goal to strive for). It's exhausting, trust me. But also trust me that it pays off in the end. I'm living proof. I LOVE my parents, and respect them for the way they raised me, gently, but with definite boundaries and expectations; and always there to help me along if needed.

I wish you the best of luck in navigating the intricacies of parenthood!!

I have to run to an appointment, but will check back later on today to see if anyone else has any thoughts for you

Excellent beautiful wonderful post! : a hundred times over.
This is what GD is to me as well!
I am gentle and loving and respectful towards my children. I keep my expectations reasonable and age appropriate. I keep our relationship loving and positive.
But I am the authority. I am the boss and they know it and I never had to "prove" it with harsh punishment etc. . . because children are born knowing they are dependent upon and rely on their parents.
That is where parents go wrong trying to "show kids who is boss" kids already KNOW who is boss instinctively. THey are waiting for us to lead.

Some would try to make you believe that GD is not about controlling your children by gentle means. That it is about giving them control over themselves. But we are not all on the same boat with this.
Good luck on your journey.
Joline

[IdentityCrisisMama]

After reading some more replies I thought of a few more things to add.

I might be less of the "adult as authority figure" when it comes to the GD spectrum mentioned here. I'm not sure. I definitely do not have unquestioning authority in my home.

But, no matter how much authority a GD parent has, I don't think there is much room in GD for inappropriate expectations of a child. In fact, this is a core principal of GD and the opposite of authoritative (ETA: this should read authoritarian) parenting, which is only necessary if there are unrealistic expectations.

However, society has unrealistic expectations of children and that's part of what we're talking about. Does GD help children "get in line" when it comes to society's expectations? I think it depends on what you mean by get in line. GD will not help a toddler sit quietly through a 2 hour meal of adult conversation. And, it will probably not help a child "save his butt" when he's being treated badly even if this were perhaps the safest choice. What I think might happen is that your child is largely saved from a lot of negativity by her/his ability to stand up for what she/he believes in. Being honest though, I think there are going to be times where your child finds her/himself in more trouble...or at least a different kind of trouble.

There have been a lot of discussions here at MDC regarding GD and how it fits in the with real world so it's definitely something people struggle with.

I would like to suggest "Becoming the Parent You Want to Be" and I think a more authoritative GD person to read is John Holt. I haven't read Holt yet but lots of mamas here who blend authority and GD harmoniously have mentioned him.

[hannahnc]

:

[sunnysideup]

It can help to think about the goal of parenting. We want to raise well-adjusted, confidant adults that have a heartfelt sense of right and wrong. We want to teach our children self-discipline.

Long story short, children of color are treated more harshly by this society and given less leeway.

This is a sad, true fact. But I don't think it fallows that just because society will treat these children harshly, the parents should as well.

[The4OfUs]

I think IdentityCrisisMama and sunnysideup make some good points.

ITA that unrealistic expectations of children (especially small children) make things much harder on kids than they need to be. Yeah, anyone who expects a toddler to sit through a 2-hour adult meal needs to have their head checked, as far as I'm concerned . A 30-minute family meal, sure...but it's about recognizing their individual abilities and developmental stages, just as pp said (some kids are just ready to sit still for longer than others sooner, and as parents it's up to us to be in tune with our own children). I do think sometimes, though, that people don't give kids enough credit for their abilities, and that can be a prbolem also (not anyone specifically here, I'm just meaning in general). Unrealistic expectations set up "failure", and "failure" needs to be "fixed"....by many mainstream standards, anyway.

As far as goals, I think that the goals we have for our children as they grow pretty much guide the way we will parent them (or maybe it's the other way around....maybe it's a chicken/egg thing...). Here's my theory:

If...
You want your child to embrace and excel in mainstream society, then you will tend towards a more authoritarian parenting style - in order to "fit in", you need to follow the rules and buy into whatever everyone else is saying and doing.

If...
You want your child to be able to *function* in and enjoy aspects of mainstream culture, BUT stand up for themselves and others when they perceive injustice AND ultimately live their lives however they are comfortable, without worrying about whtever "everyone else" thinks, I think you'll tend to more GD style parenting - encouraging questions, discussions, etc. I do think, though, that children are savvy enough to know that they may have certain freedoms at home that they would not necessarily in "the real world", and they can adjust to that, so that they can "follow the rules" when out in the world, and 'let their hair down' at home. This is my goal for my children....to be able to function and enjoy aspects of society, but be independent enough to think and act for themselves in the long run...I think that's basically where I have been and will continue to be...I just love TV, movies, junk food, and many other consumer offerings too much to NOT be a part of mainstream society!!

If....
You think mainstream stinks and prefer to live off the grid, I think you would tend to a more non-coercive/TCS style parenting where everyone participates and makes decisions equally, no matter their age or developmental stage.


Of course, there are limitless variations of people's goals and expectations for their children; the above are just 3 broad categories. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person living 'off the grid' who was authoritarian, or a person who embraces mainstream society living TCS, but that's just a guess on my part, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems to me that *because* there are so many different goals we can have for our children as they grow, that's why there are so many different ways to parent.

Sooooo, anyway - just some more random babbling from yours truly.

Oh, and thanks for your support earlier, johub.

[johub]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

.

But, no matter how much authority a GD parent has, I don't think there is much room in GD for inappropriate expectations of a child. In fact, this is a core principal of GD and the opposite of authoritative parenting, which is only necessary if there are unrealistic expectations.

.

I think you are confusing authoritative with authoritarian parenting.
Authoritative parenting is all about having appropriate expectations of a child, and is not a polar opposite to GD but fits very nicely in with one aspect of Gd.
Authoritarian parenting is all about parents being in control.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by johub

I think you are confusing authoritative with authoritarian parenting.
Authoritative parenting is all about having appropriate expectations of a child, and is not a polar opposite to GD but fits very nicely in with one aspect of Gd.
Authoritarian parenting is all about parents being in control.

Yes, I probably am. I remember that the terms are different and used very specifically from studying but it's been a while. I will edit.

[TripMom]

I am not african-american - but was raised in a similar household. Yelling, spanking, etc were the norm.

When I became a mom, I quickly realized that those techniques just don't work. (for clarification, I didn't "hit" - but did "yell" - still struggle with that - it is very engrained in me - and did spank on 2 occassions (very regretful and don't like to think about that)).

Anyway -- I also looked at me and my siblings and realized that we all had self-esteem issues. I truly believe that the domineering authoritarian parenting is the cause of that.

So I read Positive Discipline -- which I believe is quite similar to Gentle Discipline -- and am a complete devotee to the approach now.

I believe the biggest gift I can give my child is strong self esteem - and I think discpline style is the key to that.

Don't be confused -- just because you aren't yelling and hitting your kids doesn't mean that you aren't disciplining them. Its not a lack of discipline - its a different approach - and one that is far more effective.

Best of luck.

[captain crunchy]

Hi Rootz and thanks for coming to the forum!

The good news is, you're thinking. You are exploring. Your mind and heart is open. You have recognized certain behaviors in your family and/or culture that strike a negative chord to you and you are exploring options to possibly change that with your own child. You're child is still very young, so there is much time to learn, and in essence, *you are beginning with a fresh "canvas" so to speak....

*note: I do think gentle discipline is completely possible with older children, but I do however, feel that it is easier to begin with gentle discipline and more difficult to impliment it after years of punitive discipline, though it is very possible!


If I may be so bold, I think you are exploring what many people who were raised in homes or cultures with less than gentle discipline (my family included!) explore when they are considering a different method....in fact, I think it is a very natural response to have when exploring anything new and unknown really.

There will be some fear of course... what if I do it this way and my kid turns out to be an out of control criminal!! What if my family or friends judge me or shame me for my choices or try to constantly change my mind? What if I think I can be a gentle mother but my past/culture/family/friends influence is too strong and I revert to the type of parent I swore I wouldn't be? What if my child runs our house and we have no control? What if, what if....

Of course those are valid questions, but I truly believe you will find your path. There has to be reconciliation within yourself that you are not denying your culture or your parents or whatever because you are choosing a different path, or considering one.

Education and information, reaching out and talking, listening... is never a bad thing.

Stick around and feel your way around....keep asking questions, and whatever choices you make with your child, may they be choices that honor the both of you and your needs.

[angela&avery]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

Although I cannot begin to address the cultural or racial aspects of discipline and the different things you will have to consider in raising your children (and it really saddens me that you should have to do so), I can assure you that it is absolutely possible to have a child that is parented with no spanking, yelling, or shaming, but the parent remains an authority figure. I was raised that way. Everything I write below is obviously based on my own experience and my own beliefs, which clearly are not held by everyone on this forum. Hopefully, some of it will be helpful to you. So, here I go:

Some here will argue that a parent exerting any kind of control or authority over their child is not gentle. I respectfully disagree. I think it has everything to do with the intent of the parent, AND the perception of the child.

As a child, I perceived that my parents had my best interests at heart, and that any decisions they made were for not only my own safety and well being, but also for our family to run smoothly and harmoniously. My parents' intent when I was an young child was to lay out a framework for me that would help me develop independence as I grew, help me be considerate of others, and help me discover who I was as a person. Within that framework they had limits and boundaries, and they were consistent and firm.

The thing my mom did, was she was "there" (and I DON'T mean staying at home versus working outside the home). If I was 3, and she asked me to pick up my toys, and after a few minutes I didn't, then she would start picking them up and talking to me about doing it together. No anger, no shaming, no "why can't you do things when I ask", just her alongside me, smiling, talking about why were were picking up the toys now. I have been doing this with my DS for a while now (after a few weeks of falling into the 'multiple request, then snap in frustration' thing, which is NOT where I wanted to be)...facilitating after the first request makes it more likely everyone is still in a good mood, and there won't be a power struggle. AND, it shows your child that when things are requested, they will get done one way or another...when you combine that with modeling cooperation in other aspects of life, it naturally happens that your child wants to help. My DS is now starting to 'clean up' sometimes on his own, saying, "clean, clean, clean" while he does it, a big old smile on his face.

If there was a limit or boundary that I was pushing or testing, mom would calmly, gently explain why the limit was there, empathize with me, and then we'd move on. She kept her explanations brief and age appropriate, so there was no melodrama. I don't want to imply that she was cold at all, not that kind of calm or brief - it was a warm, loving calm....big difference.

I was allowed to make many decisions in regards to my own life (as appropriate for my age), but I also had to function within the family - that meant that sometimes I didn't get my way, but sometimes I did. This also helped teach me that minor disappointments are OK...that even if I didn't get what I wanted that time, I would some other time. I know some here don't agree with that, but I think it is very important. My parents didn't go looking for ways to not give me what I wanted, but they also didn't make a huge deal about it when I didn't. Again, they would explain, empathize, and move on. The empathy helped me feel validated, and the explaining helped me understand the 'why'...the moving on helped me internalize 'little disappointments' from big ones, and they showed a range of empathy depending on the situation. What they never did is tell me to just get over it, or downplay my emotions. They just helped me work through them and move on.

There was a LOT of joy, silliness, and play in my childhood. I think their willingness to be goofy with me made me realize they really did value and love me and were willing to be there with me on my level, and that any limits they did impose were for good reason (and they were always willing to explain their reasons, even if I didn't agree with them). I can still remember leading a parade down our street, with my mom, dad, and aunt, full grown adults, in the 'costumes' I made for them - I was probably around 5. They took great pleasure in having fun and being silly with me, and that really helped us connect.

I know this post has been all over the place, sorry for that. I guess basically I want to let you know that you CAN raise your child without yelling, shaming, or spanking, and still be 'in charge', if that is how you want to do it - and that being ' in charge' doesn't necessarily mean that you're a power hungry control freak, but that you have certain beliefs about children's mental, emotional, and social development, and what a parents' role is in guiding them as they develop (there is a very wide range of beliefs in this forum as to what children's developmental abilities are at different ages, and what a parent's role is in helping them to grow - many here will not agree with a lot of what I have written above, but some will). You can be silly and playful and not worry about being ' just their friend' as opposed to 'their parent', if that worries you. The thing is, you have to "be there" to back up what you say and do right away in a calm, pleasant manner (I know no one is perfect, but it's a goal to strive for). It's exhausting, trust me. But also trust me that it pays off in the end. I'm living proof. I LOVE my parents, and respect them for the way they raised me, gently, but with definite boundaries and expectations; and always there to help me along if needed.

I wish you the best of luck in navigating the intricacies of parenthood!!

I have to run to an appointment, but will check back later on today to see if anyone else has any thoughts for you

I love this... i just saved this post to reread... this is what I want to be and work on being... thank you.

[mogit]

Rootzdawta, if I am reading your OP correctly, I think your concern is less with how GD would work in your own home than how it would (or would not) prepare your child for the unfortunate realities of our society. This is a question I have pondered myself. I am white, but both my adopted children are Hispanic, and I do wonder how they will be perceived as they get older. Right now, they are little and cute and almost always with me, but what will happen when DS, for example is a 6-ft tall, brown-skinned teenager going around town by himself? It is not hard for me to imagine him being questioned by police just for being in his grandparents' virtually all-white neighborhood. And he will have to answer in a very polite, respectful way, even if he is feeling angry and offended.

My approach (and I should probably start doing this now) is to talk to DS, and later DD, about people's prejudices and to let them know that they may (OK, will) encounter unfair treatment and that they will need to be extra careful how they respond. I think it is possible to teach children to act differently in different situations. If you have built a good, authoritative but not authoritarian relationship with your kids, they will trust that you have their best interests at heart when you tell them there are times they must, for their own safety, "get in line" quickly, even though at home you are more open to discussion and negotiation, as well as to the expression of negative feelings. I even plan to role play some of these possible situations with my children. One advantage of raising your children with GD is that they should have the self-esteem necessary to withstand the attacks on their self image they will undoubtedly encounter as they grow older. At least that is what I am hoping.

I actually have the opposite problem that you do--having been raised in a mostly GD family and having enjoyed white privilege my whole life, I find myself reflexively thinking that if my children are decent human beings, surely they will be treated fairly--even though I KNOW this will not always be so! It is a tricky thing, negotiating between our ideals and our realities. I think the best we can do is to raise our children with love and respect, while acknowledging to them that the world will not always love and respect them as we do.

(It makes me so sad to write this.)

[rootzdawta]

Wow, Ladies, I just have to say I am so overwhelmed (in a good way) by all the responses I've received from you all. I mean, really. I keep coming back just to read the posts over and digest them. I think I will just go ahead and print it. It is really hard to try something different but from what I've been reading on this particular board, I know GD is definitely definitely what I want to do. I will have to figure out how the rest will fall into place. I do just want to say thanks so much.

[ErikaDP]

Originally Posted by mogit

My approach is to talk about people's prejudices and to let them know that they may (OK, will) encounter unfair treatment and that they will need to be extra careful how they respond. I think it is possible to teach children to act differently in different situations. If you have built a good, authoritative but not authoritarian relationship with your kids, they will trust that you have their best interests at heart when you tell them there are times they must, for their own safety, "get in line" quickly, even though at home you are more open to discussion and negotiation, as well as to the expression of negative feelings... One advantage of raising your children with GD is that they should have the self-esteem necessary to withstand the attacks on their self image they will undoubtedly encounter as they grow older. At least that is what I am hoping....
(It makes me so sad to write this.)

Rootzdawta,

The above post is exactly how we(my husband and I) raised our now adult children and how we are raising our youngest son(he's 13) now. It worked out beautifully with our oldest children, and they remain very close to us, even and especially through out their teen years. They always know that they can count on us to come to their aid without worrying about being demeaned or belittled. And we are certain that our youngest will feel the same way.
But we also have always known that our children would have to answer to a different standard of behavior than some of their peers in public, so it was very important that they learn how to handle themselves when it happens.
We treated those situations much like bi-lingual families in the US handle home based language vs. english language use in public, different behaviors(language) for different settings.
And it is true I believe, that being treated well by your parents and family makes one better able to cope when expectations and consequences are not handed out fairly in disciplinary situations in public. So we always strive to treat our children with respect and dignity.
I hope that this post was helpful to you.

Take Care,
Erika :
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"Knowledge without compassion is useless"-SCW
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt

[FroNuff]

Ok, I made it over to this thread. As I posted in "our" tribe, I'm struggling with a very similar issue, though you've enlightened me as to why I'm uncomfortable with the freedom that GD offers.

I think this is something serious that Black folks need to explore and discuss -- this whole idea of authoritarian parenting reduces "our" children's freedoms is such a throwback to slavery. During slavery, our folks had to be quiet, docile and kept "in check" so we could just SURVIVE. Disciplining children in a harsh mannner was done for their own safety, I imagine, and this is where *the look* came from. Well, we're holding on to this after slavery, and it's hard to let it go because we aren't truly free in our society. Sorry if all that sounds .

For me, I was raised by my grandmother who had high expectations of me, but did not teach me exactly how to behave. I was expected to know how to behave and if I fell out of line with her unspoken, but definitely present rules, I was hit. I won't even say spanked, because that would be sugarcoating it. I was abused, no question about it. And while I know that I want to stop this cycle with my own children, it is HARD. I have to remind myself on a daily basis what is appropriate behavior for 2 & 3 year olds, and I have to actually ask myself if what they are doing is just annoying to me or if it's really a major infraction. 90% of the time I'm gentle with my girls and I love them more than anything, but that 10% of the time I'm cranky, yelling and wanting to smack some butts (and I have, regretably). I am working on that 10%, but damn it's hard when I have the whispers of my grandmother in my head saying, "You see how those mixed kids don't know how to act....don't let yours be the same way" and "you need to put your foot down and be the mother!".

I'm so sorry to ramble on so long. Rootzdawta, thank you so much for starting this thread. It's been on my mind, but I could not have put it so well as you have (in order to garner such great responses).