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Questions regarding Wife Submission... - Page 2

post #21 of 547
You know, this whole concept reminds me of The Story of O and submissive/dominant groups on the internet. It's my understanding from, um, extensive reading that in entering into a sub/dom relationship based solely on sex, the submissive partner is impressed by and develops respect for the authority of the dominant partner. Once trust is established, the submissive partner then submits his/her will to the dominant partner, usually with clearly defined boundaries. I think that such sub/dom relationships based on sex are actually healthier (as long as the partners aren't acting out abuse issues, etc.) than these so-called Biblically-based submissions where roles are based solely on the partners' genders. I mean, from many of the examples I've read of husbands' behavior, they've done little to earn the respect or trust of their wives. Shouldn't that respect and trust be the prerequisite to submission, not the fact that one happens to be a man?

And another thought, in a marriage, each partner has certain strengths and certain weaknesses. Do submissive wives submit to their husbands on all matters? For example, I know NOTHING about cars. So my dh handles everything to do with our cars. I don't want him to consult with me. I just want it done. I know more about health care. I take care of everything related to that without consulting dh. He trusts I know what I'm doing and that's that. I know so many women who are so much smarter than their husbands on so many matters, I don't know why it makes sense to have husbands be the ultimate decision makers just because they're men.
post #22 of 547
i guess i don't understand why someone would submit to someone who is lesser than they are. I mean, i know-irl and url-alot of loser husbands-can't hold jobs, chronic cheaters, show zero respect for their wives and their marriage and their family, etc... What kind of God would want their devout followers to submit to that. Why would God want his followers to be so miserable?
post #23 of 547
This reminds me of the power structure in several of America's past presidencies -- the "power behind the throne" idea.

To submit to another upon marriage gives that person the obvious power.

But who decides to agree to that marriage in the first place? Who chooses to submit? And upon doing so, who makes the judgment that the man in question is actually a "man of God" and therefore qualified to be the leader of the household? (I'm assuming in this situation the couple would take the tradition route, with the man proposing to the woman and the woman saying yes or no.)

I'm not very familiar with the idea of submission, as it wasn't a tenet of the church in which I was raised, so forgive me if I wander off the path. I'm thinking out loud, as it were, trying to puzzle this out.

Is it safe to assume that the father of the bride is the household leader, and her own, prior to her marriage? So does he make the decision on her acceptance of a marriage proposal? Does he evaluate the man and decide if he's a "man of God"? What happens when a woman is converting to the concept of submission and her father is not available or will not play this role? Is she guided by God directly until she is married (as a PP described it as the man being the only one to have direct guidance from God and her only having guidance through her husband)?

It just seems like a lot of the situations I see explained by submissive wives involve them "leading" (or praying for) their husband to come to a conclusion they've already reached, or wielding their power in a more subtle way to bring their husband around to a good decision for the family. I guess I'm just not clear on why the separate power structures are necessary (one direct, one subtle), and why they're based on gender. But as a PP mentioned, if it truly works for a family and makes everyone in it happy, to each her own.
post #24 of 547
The scriptures regarding wife submission are of debatable interpretation among Christians. As are the scriptures regarding "the rod". Most here choose to interpret "the rod" scriptures in a child-friendly way. Why, then, not choose to interpret the "submissive" scriptures in a woman-friendly way? Why interpret them in a way that, as best, promote sexism and, at worst, is used to rationalize and tolerate abuse?
post #25 of 547
Good points made above.

In the scenario I presented above, true story of a trucker and his wife, they are both Christian, Baptists. The dh had a habit of going to church at least once a week, reading the bible with a study guide every morning, etc.

So, this kind of marriage was agreed upon by both. Yes, they are both sinners by their denom's definition, but the dw tried to trust her dh to make decisions for the family that were safe and beneficial, as was her religious conviction. Unfortunately, dh had been in a motorcycle accident when he was 14 and is ever so slightly brain-damaged and is just not as intelligent as dw.

This was not a new marriage. This was a marriage of 20+ yrs duration. Lots of other issues involved, such as dh's love for "get rich quick" pyramid scheme business ventures, in which he would spend their non-exsistant savings on a basement full of "health supplements" which would largely go unsold.

Add to this, his denial of probably being gay enters into it (this denial being neccessary in a fundy mindset), instead making dw feel it was her fault for not being attractive enough that led to their terrible unsatisfactory love life. :

Now she has become fed up (after much damage to her self-esteem and terrible examples of male and female role models for their 4 sons, leading to inappropriate girlfriends and drug issues), and is seeking a divorce!
post #26 of 547
Hey, AngelBee, where's our answers?

post #27 of 547
:
post #28 of 547
Not even a dang smilie from her!
post #29 of 547
Post and run
post #30 of 547
Thread Starter 
DaryLLL.... I am here.

Today is dh's birthday and tomorrow is our 5th Anniversary.

I will be in and out this weekend......I will be back to answer though when I get a chance.
post #31 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee
DaryLLL.... I am here.

Today is dh's birthday and tomorrow is our 5th Anniversary.
Are you f-ing kidding me??? Tomorrow is our anniversary as well! I am completely serious!

Quote:

I will be in and out this weekend......I will be back to answer though when I get a chance.
No, no, no good. Answer one of them. Tonight. Now. B/c we share an anniversary.
post #32 of 547
I have a question, what does "help meet" mean? I've seen a few MDC posters put that in their siggie. Is it synonymous with "submissive wife"???
post #33 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverSky
I have a question, what does "help meet" mean? I've seen a few MDC posters put that in their siggie. Is it synonymous with "submissive wife"???

There, AB. There's a real easy one.

Save my trucker story for Monday, if you must.
post #34 of 547
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Are you f-ing kidding me??? Tomorrow is our anniversary as well! I am completely serious!
See....we have more in common then you think! :

Any special plans? We still can not decide what to do :

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
No, no, no good. Answer one of them. Tonight. Now. B/c we share an anniversary.
I am off to pick up dinner and a cake right now (Dairy Queen......I know : Not good for your health....but soooooo nummy! )

We will see if I have time when I get back!

Gotta give dh his bday gift....so I don't know if I will!
post #35 of 547
We're going out for sushi.

Your dot is still green.

What's a help meet? You are one, can't you tell us?
post #36 of 547
I am on a skiing vacation with a very slow 5.5 MBPS modem and I am here to opine.

The Bible tells us to submit to one another in love.

It also tells us to submit to our husbands. That submit can be translated as "respect."

I heard an excellent teaching on this matter that suggested the emphasis upon "Respect" directed at wives toward their husbands reflects a steryotpyical need for men to be respected. This is something steryotypically many of us women don't realize or understand and the Bible was *reminding* us to be respectful.

In a similar manner, men needed to be reminded to "love your wives as Christ loves the Church" because women have a tendency to need to be loved and men are oftentimes in need of reminding that we need to be loved.

Does that mean a woman doesn't need a bit of respect and a man doesn't need a bit of love? No way, it was just feeding our need for the most part.

The teaching in fundamentalistic circles that enslaves women is, in my opinion, self serving rather than a reflection of G-d's will in our marriages.

Debra Baker
post #37 of 547
What is a helpmeet?

Well, Adam (big man that he was) couldn't handle matters in the garden and needed some help. G-d in His wisdom gave him a perfect helper (meeting his needs with help...help/meet and nasty men have twisted it into help-meat as in objectifying and demeaning a woman to be forever the side kick instead of a mover and shaker.

No, we don't want to always be Robin, Tonto, or even helpless Lois Lane screaming from some danger point, wringing our little helpless hands and being rescued only to be June cleaver the happily ever after helpmeat doing our big man's bidding.

Debra Baker
post #38 of 547
Um, DB, you said "help-meat."
post #39 of 547
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
We're going out for sushi.

Your dot is still green.

What's a help meet? You are one, can't you tell us?
Sounds fun...I love sushi! Rich however is not a big fan.....you should have seen his face the first time he tried it :

My dot is always green!

Help meet: The word appears twice in the KJB Gen 2:18 and 20.


It is translated from a single Greek word "ayzer" . Ayzer is found 21 times in the Bible....only in Gen 2:18 and 20 is it translated into "help meet" Meaning a helper suited to Adam's needs.

"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man be should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." Gen 2:18
post #40 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Um, DB, you said "help-meat."
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