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"Spanking: I spared the rod and my kids smacked me with it" - Page 3

post #41 of 126
Any responses or clues that she read any of these letters?
I don't want to open the links, but maybe she wrote ion her blog or something?

This is just heartbreaking. ITA with Shanagirl's dd.
post #42 of 126
I understand parents being ignorant and non-intuitive enough that all they can come up with is hurting their kids to get them to stop doing things they don't want them to do. I get that. It's a big paradigm shift (to not think that way) and involves suspending your assumptions about *why* children behave the way they do, and the ability to step outside of youself to see things from their perspective. It also means that you actually *care* about doing the right thing by your child, and not just about your own convenience and sense of control.

So, I get that some people are just not capable of that. "They know not what they do." I mean, I think this applies to all of us to some degree or other, so I'm probably not one to judge there.

What upsets me, though, is when I come across someone who apparently *does* have some sense somewhere deep inside of them that it is wrong to inflict physical pain on others, and deal with this moral conflict by pretending the whole thing is really very silly and funny. It's a coping mechanism, and it's pathetic and sad. I don't spend a lot of time around people who hurt their children for control purposes, so I don't know how common this is, but I did have close-up experience with it once, with my ex-SIL -- once when I was visiting, one of her children came out to tell on the other for some offense, and she took a flat-bottomed collander out of the cupboard and went back to where they were. After a few moments she came back (apparently that time it was just being used as a threat because I heard nothing) and when I looked confused she said lightly, laughing, "oh, the holes make it more aerodynamic." I was horrified. How she could hit her kids with such a thing, I don't know, but then to speak of it so blithely, even happily? That is evidence of a sick soul.
post #43 of 126

Man. It's things like this that make me realize how far out of the mainstream I actually am. (And I'm hardly granola, really. "Sprinkled.") To spank a one-year-old for touching the Christmas tree???? Holy crap. The things people think of.
post #44 of 126
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Any responses or clues that she read any of these letters?
I don't want to open the links, but maybe she wrote ion her blog or something?
post #45 of 126
For me that main point of her article justified taking spanking lightly and the laxa-daisy (sp?) attitude she has towards hitting. It's like she's saying, I dont have time to read up on different styles of parenting so Im just going to go with spanking because how badly can it harm my kids if "everyone" else is spanking?
If you read her blog and the responses to her article, most of the people chimed in with "I was spanked and I'm ok". She doesnt seem to care that she's perpetuating this nonchalant attitude in people about spanking.
I'm sure all of the wonderful letters that you mamas wrote, were viewed in her eyes as "attacks". She simply does not see the damage she's doing...not just to her own children but to society in general.
I'm truly disheartened by that article but moreso by the fact that she's not the only one out there who makes jokes about "beating" their kids
post #46 of 126
I shouldn't have ever read the link. It sickens me that there are people out there like her everyday, just walking along next to me in the grocery store and such. If I saw her on the street I would probably think, she looks pretty cool (or whatever)....but inside lies the mind of a sadist.

It's scary.

God, the "feedback" on her blog is shocking... I posted a comment that she probably won't approve.

It said:

So your gauge of whether or not spanking damages a child is based on whether they grow up to steal cars or sell crack? Most assault victims, rape survivors, or even survivors of the Holocaust don't wind up stealing cars or selling crack. Does that mean they weren't damaged? Under your twisted logic, I guess not.
post #47 of 126
I couldn't read the article because I don't have the stomach for it right now. But the reply letters have been wonderful and so gentle and exactly what I think she should hear. I hope she doesn't get one single blasting letter because she will try to use that to write the whole group off. But hopefully she'll read and think about it all.
post #48 of 126
I dont think she cares or that she is in the right state of mind to change. As long as she has plenty of people patting her on her back saying "I was spanked too and I am fine" then she probably wont care. The comments on her blog, from her and the readers are really appauling. I cant believe she is hitting a one year old, over a Christmas tree at that.
Lets celebrate Christ by putting up a tree that our toddler will be attracted too and smack him for it. Barf!
post #49 of 126
Here's the one I'm sending:
Dear Dana,

I’m writing to you in the hope that this is the one letter you actually read, the one letter
that makes whatever crucial difference is necessary to make. You claim to be a Christian,
a soi-disant “Jesus freak,” so by virtue of that self-definition, I am imploring you to do
what anyone who calls themselves “Christian” in the genuine sense of the word must do:
act like Christ.

It’s difficult to see how we appear to others sometimes. I am hoping that your image is
merely that: a public persona generated for the purpose of selling more copies of the St.
Louis paper or attracting more visitors to your blog -- an authorial voice speaking in a
kind of Vickie Iovine-inspired combination of ennui and brittle nonchalance.
Dana, I implore you to consider how you must appear not only to myself, but to others.
Please, please ask yourself if these statements, which seem so hostile, represent the “real
you,” or if this is how someone who is striving to be a follower of Christ should appear:
* “...it's usually all my kids' fault...”
* “I don't say dirty words anymore UNLESS I'm yelling at my kids....”
* “I own a gun which I always make sure is loaded and unlocked for my kids to play
* “Did you seriously think that something which began by RAMMING ITS WAY OUT OF
YOUR VAGINA was going to be a cakewalk?”
*[Referring to your child Ewan] “...his fat-faced, snowman eyes.”
There’s so much apparent hostility toward your child here, so much anger and hate.
Dana, this is your child, your child, the one you grew, the one who expects you to protect
him and love him, to give your life for him as God gave his life for his own children, in
Christian belief. Can you really, under any circumstances, imagine Jesus spanking your
child? Can you imagine him referring to Ewan’s “fat-faced snowman eyes,” as if he were
not only physically repulsive to you, but somehow inhuman, cold, his eyes the burnt-out
coals of a “snowman”?

I can’t.

Dana, you’re having to escalate what you’re doing. That’s what violence does. Humans
are mightily resilient to violence; we get calloused fairly quickly. Violence begets more
violence which begets more violence. It’s happening to you. See? “We've tried
smacking his hand, but lately noticed that it wasn't working because he would cackle and
grin whenever we did it and go right back to being naughty. When he proved immune to
hand-smacking, we knew we had to come up with a more intimidating form of
punishment, fast. Something more severe than hand-smacking but less severe than the
Catherine Wheel. Thus, we instituted spanking.” It’s not working. You’re having to
escalate more and more. Where does it stop? Does it really have to end with your
sacrificing your child or your relationship with the child on the ultimately fragile wheel of
torture you invoke here -- a wheel that broke apart at Catherine’s touch? Love, the story
suggests, or the divine power of God (whichever you prefer), is stronger than the violence
that would break it. Your solution is in your own heart and in your own words, if only
you would read them.

You suggest or imply more than once a degree of frustration in getting your children to
mind, which is something I can sympathize with deeply. I am not a perfect parent, nor do
I claim to hold the all-purpose solution to child behavior in my hand.
The only solution I have is this: love your children. Treat them as you would be treated:
that’s the whole of the Law in one breath, isn’t it? Monday-morning quarterbacking for a
second, if my child had been entangling herself in the Christmas tree, I would have led her
away from it. If she’d returned, I would explain why self-entanglement is wrong: the tree
could fall down, you could get hurt, et cetera. If she returned to the tree, I would have
given her a choice: leave it alone or we’ll take away the object you’re playing with.
Choices, consequences, explanations -- those aren’t perfect solutions, but morally,
ethically, they are better solutions. It’s closer to what one can imagine Jesus doing, isn’t

I realize it can be frustrating to reason with a child, but morally, ethically, it’s the only
right thing. You have to teach them how to reason, to understand that there really are
reasons for things. Force is always easier, quicker...but it is not better. Force will
accomplish what you want: Maximinus got rid of Catherine by a quick beheading when
the wheel broke...but did it stop what she said? Who prevailed in the end, Dana -- the
Christians or the Roman emperors?

As a world, but certainly beginning as individuals and parents who shape the children of
our world’s future, we must treat others as we would prefer to be treated. If you are
teaching your children that force is the way to get your children to accede to your will,
what will you do when you are powerless and they are powerful? You’re in your twenties
now; you won’t always be. In 2066, when you’re in your eighties, will you be happy if
Liam and Ewan treat you as you’ve treated them? With all my heart, Dana, I hope you
will be, because I hope that, as I’ve said, this is the one letter that counts.

I would like you to consider one thing. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you.
It’s within you; it’s within your children. How can you strike a being who came from
God, who is of God and with God?

Better to love them.
post #50 of 126
i've been a fan of your writing style for quite a few years now, cb, but i think this may be the finest example i've read yet. yours may be the only letter that breaks through & accomplishes the goal. bravo, my dear. (and i love the word soi-disant anyway, & long for places to use it .)
post #51 of 126
Anyone write to her sponsors, yet?
Babystyle, Netflix, The Body Shop, or Kabloom?
Anyone know who to contact about it or what to write?
post #52 of 126
Well she's right about one thing:

For instance, "Liam! Do not jump on your bed" becomes "Liam! Blah blah jump on your bed." The command "Liam! Do NOT flush your Weebles down the toilet!" becomes "Liam! Blah BLAH flush your Weebles down the toilet!" When I tell Ewan to leave something alone, like the trash can, it suddenly becomes more attractive than the proverbial apple of Eden.
She definitely shapes their focus onto what she doesn't want them doing. Talk about a set-up...

It seems she's completely ignoring that, even when it gets to a point where it appears that the violence has escalated as much as it can, her boys will simply avoid her and not the behaviors she dosn't like. I see teenagers sneaking out of the house in her future... if she's lucky.

Poor, poor babies. Just poor things.
post #53 of 126
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy
If you read her blog and the responses to her article, most of the people chimed in with "I was spanked and I'm ok".
That "reasoning" drives me absolutely nutty. They think that it's acceptable to hit children. How "ok" can they be?
post #54 of 126
Originally Posted by aira
Well she's right about one thing:

She definitely shapes their focus onto what she doesn't want them doing. Talk about a set-up...
Arg, the quotes in quotes thing doesn't work, but your post isn't far above mine. Yep, you're exactly right. Sad.

I looked briefly at her blog; she quotes all sorts of people who wrote in to say they were spanked and don't sell crack. Does anyone here know anyone who DOES sell crack and was spanked as a kid? I'm serious. I would love to have them responding to her blog.

So sad. Ugh.
post #55 of 126
I didn't read the article - I'm just not in a place where I can face that kind of cruelty right now. It's interesting though, because my mother (a huge GD proponent) and I were having a conversation about tough ages and how to deal with them.

Me: They say the hardest age is two.
Mom: No, not in my book. Four, four and a half - those are hard ages.
Me: Really?
Mom: Yeah, at two they're still kind of sweet about their resistance. But four-year-olds will step across every boundary you set, then look at you and go, "Now what are you going to do about it?" It's tough. But they're also more sophisticated in what they can understand, so you have that going for you.
Me: I don't know. I feel I can do more with older kids. I think it's easier to talk to them.
Mom: Yes, that's true too.

So when I hear the spanking lady describe a scenario where her four-year-old crosses a boundary and then confronts her, and then uses that scenario to defend her reason to spank, I get a little sick to my stomach. Why oh why would you punish a child physically for doing something that is normal for their age... that's sick and wrong. That poor kid. Yes, the behavior is annoying, but learn to deal. You are the adult.
post #56 of 126
Well now I've not only lost respect for her as a mother but as a journalist as well - she only quoted the people that agreed with her. Whatever.

It's too bad she won't even seriously consider an alternative viewpoint.
post #57 of 126
Wow. That is truly disgusting. I may be really dense, but was she trying to be funny?
post #58 of 126
I am disgusted at how many positive responses she has received. I can't believe how many parents are agreeing with her for spanking that poor little BABY! Sick, sick, sick. But, I notice none of the eloquent letters written by MDC mamas are there. It makes me wonder if the overall response was indeed positive, or if she just posts comments from the freaks who actually agree with her.
post #59 of 126
I wonder - did she reply to anybody by any chance? I know she was probably overwhelmed with e-mails, but who knows?
post #60 of 126
Originally Posted by GriffinsMom
I love how she insults the letter writers in the actual article. Its as if she thinks, "If I call them frothy-mouthed, perhaps they will be shamed into silence." She is so mis-lead that I'm not even sure where to start with an e-mail.

She apparently thinks that spanking improves kids' hearing as well....
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