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toy guns and guns ?? - Page 7

post #121 of 137
Storm Bride brings up a great point -- the rate of violence in the US is much higher than the rate in Canada, where we both live. Personally, I believe it's because in Canada, people are far more respected by the government, and by society in general -- the proof of that is the far better social systems we have in Canada. The fact that mothers are given a full year's paid maternity leave is a HUGE sign to me that the government (and society) here places far more value on humans than on the almighty dollar, which rules the land in the US. Capitalism (the true root of all evil, IMO) is totally running rampant in the states, whereas in Canada, the vast majority of people (and the gov)place humanity above making a buck. There is more violence and crime in the states because there is more poverty and big-brothership going on there -- people don't feel respected.

Violence has been around far longer than toy weapons -- kids from a loving home who play with toy weapons are just as peace-loving and non-violent as kids who don't. It's the spirit behind the play that makes the difference, not what we see happening on the surface.
post #122 of 137
The Anishinaabeg do not promote violence and there are no stories like the ones you read to your children. There is no imaginary dragons that need to be slain. Evil cannot be defeated by killing it, which is what I have noticed most Good Guy vs Bad Guy stories say.
In ours, the bad guys become the good guys. Join forces, so to speak.
post #123 of 137
see, with a few specific details, it all becomes clear. The situation you describe would bother me too, and I would have done the same thing...well, I wouldn't have sent my kids to bible camp in the first place (not because I'm afraid of it, I just don't like most of it) -- christianity has a horrendous record of violence, but really, who would have thought they'd promote that side of it at bible camp?

My kids pretend to battle dragons, pirates, bad guys, etc all the time -- we enjoy reading a wide variety of children's literature, and they use their imaginations to build on the stories we read, and create things out of nowhere as well.

BUT, they have never once, to my knowledge (and we live in a pretty small house, and they don't feel the need to hide anything from me, so it's safe to say I'd be aware of it if it had happened) have EVER pretended to stab anyone, or shoot anyone. My son did point the gun at his baby friend, but he didn't have any idea about what guns do, so we had to discuss why that's not a good type of play, and now he knows why toy guns shouldn't be pointed at people. He battles the air and the creatures in his head, but he's never pretended to use a weapon against a person. To me that would seem more violent than his imaginary play against imaginary creatures, but it still wouldn't indicate that a kid IS violent.

You're right, violence is everywhere, especially in the US. We don't have cable tv so our kids won't be exposed to it there, and we watch movies with any violence in them with them so we can talk about it, but they have a really good understanding of the difference between movies and real life. I can't stand violence for violence's sake, but I'm not opposed to them seeing it if it's in a movie that is otherwise valuable. It's all part of life, and I'm glad to be able to help them digest it and put it in it's proper context. I don't think it's in any way harming them or grooming them to be violent as they grow.

I'm not promoting violence, I'm just realistic about it, and see it for what it really is -- I'm not afraid of my very sweet gentle children seeing the occasional pirate movie or pretending to save the world from evil villains, in whatever way they see fit.
post #124 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
The Anishinaabeg do not promote violence and there are no stories like the ones you read to your children. There is no imaginary dragons that need to be slain. Evil cannot be defeated by killing it, which is what I have noticed most Good Guy vs Bad Guy stories say.
In ours, the bad guys become the good guys. Join forces, so to speak.
I totally agree with you, and we read many stories (and make up alternative endings sometimes to the ones that are too "good guy/bad guy") like the ones you describe.

My children are not fed a steady diet of "defeat the evil force" but that theme is out there so we explore whatever comes at us. We often talk about other ways the protagonist could have solved the problem.

Oh, and by the way, we're just using the dragon theme as an example -- most of the time my son and the dragon are in cahoots, flying around and having all different sorts of adventures. Dragons are more often "good guys" than evil.
post #125 of 137
On the flipside of all this I'd like to know how many of you who do not or won't allow guns into your house of any kind allow violent video games in that show people being killed on the video games in any form?
It really troubles me to see how much people will do otherwise, when they say guns are bad but will have such violence in their homes otherwise, whether on the t.v. or video games.
I've grown up around guns all my life, hunted with my dad and brother. My dh and all his brothers hunt and enjoy it. WE do have 4yo ds that's enthralled by them and has several that his uncles have boughten for him. He knows what he's allowed to shoot and what not to shoot.
post #126 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by vforba
On the flipside of all this I'd like to know how many of you who do not or won't allow guns into your house of any kind allow violent video games in that show people being killed on the video games in any form?
It really troubles me to see how much people will do otherwise, when they say guns are bad but will have such violence in their homes otherwise, whether on the t.v. or video games.
I've grown up around guns all my life, hunted with my dad and brother. My dh and all his brothers hunt and enjoy it. WE do have 4yo ds that's enthralled by them and has several that his uncles have boughten for him. He knows what he's allowed to shoot and what not to shoot.
We do not have television, nor video games. I am all for gun safety, even if you do not own one.
post #127 of 137
FYI - Several posts have been removed from this thread. Please play nice, folks. Take a moment to review the User Agreement before posting further.

Thanks!
post #128 of 137
DS is way too young to have any toys like this yet - only 11 weeks - but if I have anything to do with it he will never have any. DW keeps saying things like "but what about a water gun? Those are fine, right?" I don't know how to explain it to her but I just feel like a water gun is essentially the same thing as a "toy gun". Thoughts on this?
-Susannah
post #129 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
You are confusing violence with aggression.
What you described above has absolutely nothing to do with violence.
I was curious to see how the Oxford Dictionary defines aggression. Definition is: hostile or violent behaviour or attitudes.

It seems as though aggression is violence.
post #130 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by karinasusy
I was curious to see how the Oxford Dictionary defines aggression. Definition is: hostile or violent behaviour or attitudes.

It seems as though aggression is violence.
That is interesting. According to Oxford, it came from the latin word, "to attack".

The definition I had been using was one of the ways a child will set boundaries using physical force or aggressive movements.

Maybe we should start a spin-off thread discussing specifically "Aggression vs. Violence" and see what we can make of it?
post #131 of 137
DH & I had this issue forever. So then, we came to a comprimise. I want the girls' to know all about guns - how to shoot them, gun safety, etc.
I told Dh that the only way the girls' could have toy guns were if they were treated like real guns the whole time. No pointing at people or things, no burying them in the toybox when they were done playing with them (put on a shelf up out of reach of younger kids, etc. etc)
So yeah, They can have toy guns. But I honestly hope by the ages of 5 or so they are out practicing with the real thing so as to better learn gun safety.
post #132 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyWild
We own guns, and I grew up around guns and hunting. For that reason, we were never allowed to play with toy guns and were trained in firearm safety, training which included never pretending to shoot any living thing, even with a toy. Guns are for killing, and none of the children in our extended family were allowed to pretend to kill things.
Ditto.. thats how it is here too.

We have real guns for hunting because Dh is an advid hunter and for that reason alone we've never allowed toy guns in our house. The kids know the difference between real and toy but its too serious an issue for us to *play* with. Both my older 2 kids have been out with dad target practicing too so they are learning gun safety and will take safety courses as soon as they are old enough. We keep the hunting guns locked up and no ammo with them but it still would make me feel ill to think of an accident so its just not an area of play theme we are comfortable with here. The kids are allowed squirt bottles and other funs stuff in the summer, but not water guns.

My younger cousin was raised around guns and knew gun safety, it was hammered into him and he was a crack shot before he could drive. But one day when he wasabout 5 he had a toy gun (that looked real) and was pretending to shoot carts from his front yard, one of the cars happened to be a police car. I tell ya, he got a lecture he'll never forget. Even though he already knew he wasnt supposed to do it, kids do stuff anyways. SO we dont even have the temptation around.
post #133 of 137
We don't allow any toy guns (or swords) or water pistols in the house. We have real guns so toy ones are completely out.
post #134 of 137

Reality

Hubby and I thought a lot about this topic. He is in the military. He loves to shoot but not at people. LOL (He is working on going chaplin because of this) But he will still love to shoot at targets. It is not the gun that is the issue, but the people behind them. My father is a hunter, growing up I was always upset with him about it, as an adult, and Pagan, I see the value he gives the world when he hunts the over populated areas, and that is where he hunts. And how he uses as much of the animal as possible.

We think our children can tell the difference between a toy and the real thing. Cars kill more people then guns in this country and yet we still drive and let them play with them.

Plus water guns are great fun for the whole family in the summer! LOL
I grew up with guns, I will not let a real one in my home, but I will not tell someone else they can not have one if they are moral people. I asume my children will be moral as we are trying to raise them to be so and do so every day in homeschooling.

Blessings,
Kontessa
post #135 of 137

Not end all be all.....

Itsn't it hard sometimes to pull ones self away from the thinking that "Well it did not do me any harm"?

I am finding myself doing that now.

Something that may help some of us is looking into NVC Non-Violent Communication.

Some how I can play kill-em video games as can my husband, he is in the military, and we are both peaceful people. Never spanking and rarely do we even yell.

Others are very different!

Blessings,
Kimmy
post #136 of 137
Haven't read the whole thread but want to answer the OP:

We don't allow guns, toy guns, anything that looks like a gun, violent videos, shows, computer games, etc... in our house.

Nevertheless, my 5yo will pick up two sticks in the backyard and pretend they are a gun.

What aggravates me is that friends with girls will automatically assume that any boy who plays like that is exposed to violent images or toys in the home.

I want to scream at them: "They're BOYS! It's hyper-programmed in them!"

But I can't very well prohibit picking up sticks, can I...

Argh.
post #137 of 137
Haven't read the whole thread but want to answer the OP:

We don't allow guns, toy guns, anything that looks like a gun, violent videos, shows, computer games, etc... in our house.

Nevertheless, my 5yo will pick up two sticks in the backyard and pretend they are a gun.

What aggravates me is that friends with girls will automatically assume that any boy who plays like that is exposed to violent images or toys in the home.

I want to scream at them: "They're BOYS! It's hyper-programmed in them!"

But I can't very well prohibit picking up sticks, can I...

Argh.
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