Logical Consquences - GD? or NOT GD? - Page 11

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Chicky2

I guess I"m sucked in, lol....

The PP(by donosmommy) makes me think of something else. It is a good example of how everyone has different views about what is right and wrong for their own families. I personally would NEVER leave food by the bed and let them eat it anytime they wanted. I would be completely freaked out by the fact that all that food would just sit in their little mouths all night long, promoting cavities. That said, i don't think it's a 'wrong' solution, either. It is just not one I would consider for my family.

Yes!! THIS is what I'm talking about!! Respectfully discussing what works for each of our own families, saying why it would or wouldn't work for you, offering up other suggestions, and then either taking it or leaving it. No disrespect, no judgment, just talking about personal experiences. I LOVE it.

OK ladies, I need to go make dinner - but I knew we could get this back on track. Wonder what tomorrow will hold for all of us?!?!?!?!?!

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Okay, so here's what I'm puzzled about. When he said later (after you had cleaned up) that he was hungry - after you had finished re-offering him food - was your response that he could get something for himself or that he couldn't eat until breakfast?

I don't recall him asking me to eat during bath/bedtime. It ends in the kitchen. At somepoint I say - OK DS, then dinner is over -- and Once I diffuse the ask/reject cycle - by withdrawing from it - he hasn't really brought it up again. We just go through the rest of our nightly routine. Its not like all thru bath and bedtime he is begging me for food and I am denying it? Not at all.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by johub

YEs the child is wasting food. WHich is why it is appropriate for parents to draw a boundary. It isnt a power struggle if the parents are ok with this much food being wasted.
And it is the CHILD who chooses if it is a food issue by choosing that situation to exercise control. Not the parents.

Maybe I don't understand because I have never felt the need to control another human being.
The only control/power a person has is over themselves.
It is, imo, a set-up for failure to even think it's possible to control another human being.

I will, also, admit that I have never had many of the problems ppl speak about on these boards or parenting books, etc.

I know I am not a perfect parent, but something must be working.

[johub]

Originally Posted by TripMom

I don't recall him asking me to eat during bath/bedtime. It ends in the kitchen. At somepoint I say - OK DS, then dinner is over -- and Once I diffuse the ask/reject cycle - by withdrawing from it - he hasn't really brought it up again. We just go through the rest of our nightly routine. Its not like all thru bath and bedtime he is begging me for food and I am denying it? Not at all.

LOL. well you might have gotten everybody off of yoru back sooner if you had mentioned that he wasnt asking for food at bedtime and being denied!
I think the opposite was the assumption made by most.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by johub

Even with full free access to food it does not prevent or stop the control cycle.
My dd had full access to food and did this anyway. She woudl get a granola bar, open it. Then discard it. Get an apple, take a bite, throw it away.
The exact same power struggle can exist regardless of how the child gets the food.

You are so Right Johub - because its not about the food - its about the power/control issue.

[johub]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Maybe I don't understand because I have never felt the need to control another human being.
The only control/power a person has is over themselves.
It is, imo, a set-up for failure to even think it's possible to control another human being.

I will, also, admit that I have never had many of the problems ppl speak about on these boards or parenting books, etc.

I know I am not a perfect parent, but something must be working.

I am very surprised to hear you say this because in this very thread you said your kids arent allowed to eat in their bedrooms or in bed. Which IS control.
You have mentioned many things that your children arent allowed to do. (ride bicycles without helmets. Play with magic markers etc. . .)
All of these things are your attempts to control your children.
Perhaps though you and I have different working definitions of the word control.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by johub

LOL. well you might have gotten everybody off of yoru back sooner if you had mentioned that he wasnt asking for food at bedtime and being denied!
I think the opposite was the assumption made by most.

LOL me too! I just figured that out! I am amazed - but I guess people thought that he was begging for food from his bed - and I was denying it? That's not actually what happened. He disengages in the kitchen when I break the cycle. However - I can see this power struggle continuing in the bedroom (i.e. "I want food", "Here is a snack", "I don't want a snack", "OK, good night" "I want a snack", repeat) -- if so, I'd handle it the same way I handled it in the kitchen.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by johub

I am very surprised to hear you say this because in this very thread you said your kids arent allowed to eat in their bedrooms or in bed. Which IS control.
You have mentioned many things that your children arent allowed to do. (ride bicycles without helmets. Play with magic markers etc. . .)
All of these things are your attempts to control your children.
Perhaps though you and I have different working definitions of the word control.

Yes, perhaps that is it.
Making sure my children are safe, that they live in a cockroach-free home when it is a very real threat, are not issues I see as "controlling my children".

ETA: I do not think the city planner or government is trying to control me by making it clear that vehicles are only allowed to be driven on streets and not through ppl's yards or through the park, etc.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by johub

I am very surprised to hear you say this because in this very thread you said your kids arent allowed to eat in their bedrooms or in bed. Which IS control.
You have mentioned many things that your children arent allowed to do. (ride bicycles without helmets. Play with magic markers etc. . .)
All of these things are your attempts to control your children.
Perhaps though you and I have different working definitions of the word control.

:

I have seen more than a few contradictions from MITB .. . .

[johub]

Originally Posted by TripMom

LOL me too! I just figured that out! I am amazed - but I guess people thought that he was begging for food from his bed - and I was denying it? That's not actually what happened. He disengages in the kitchen when I break the cycle. However - I can see this power struggle continuing in the bedroom (i.e. "I want food", "Here is a snack", "I don't want a snack", "OK, good night" "I want a snack", repeat) -- if so, I'd handle it the same way I handled it in the kitchen.

My DS who is 2 has just started with a struggle like this at bedtime/naptime. it isnt food related but it is the SAME struggle! He used to always want his blanket pulled up over his head and over the headboard "like a tent". so I would kiss him goodnight and he would say "like a tent" while I pulled his blankets up like a tent.
Now after that he screams "no, not a tent", so I lay the blanket across his chest and say goodnight and he shouts "like a tent" he will do this ad nauseum if I dont just be the mean guy and say "if you dont want a tent you can pull it down yourself" or something like that.
Like a special, lets see mom jump game.

[johub]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Yes, perhaps that is it.
Making sure my children are safe, that they live in a cockroach-free home when it is a very real threat, are not issues I see as "controlling my children".

ETA: I do not think the city planner or government is trying to control me by making it clear that vehicles are only allowed to be driven on streets and not through ppl's yards or through the park, etc.

Yes but isnt that all any of us are trying to do? Keep our children safe healthy and happy? And in a roach free home?
In my house that requires an element of control.
As traffic laws are also a form of control.

eta. to delete OT subject of definitoin of "control" my apologies. This thread doesnt need any more baggage.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by johub

Now after that he screams "no, not a tent", so I lay the blanket across his chest and say goodnight and he shouts "like a tent" he will do this ad nauseum if I dont just be the mean guy and say "if you dont want a tent you can pull it down yourself" or something like that.
Like a special, lets see mom jump game.

I do not think you are being the "mean guy" when you are allowing your child to decide for himself if he wants the tent thing or not.
I, too, would not sit there all night making the tent. Now, I might ask my child if they needed my attention. Do they need some snugglin' and huggin' time?

The best parenting advice I got was to teach my children the difference between their wants and needs and how to effectively communicate those needs/wants.
Whether it's sign language or verbal, they all have been quite good at communicating their needs and wants, which helps all of us stay away from power struggles.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by johub

It was scubamom not you captain, who stated that in her county withholding food was a criminal offense.

Please see post #63:

FYI, the DSS of Gaston County, NC specifically identifies the withholding of food as an "investigatable issue" of abuse or neglect.


A pattern of withholding water or food (with the exception of desserts, snacks, and candy) requires an investigative assessment. Forcing a child to consume excessive amounts of food or water can be dangerous. Forcing a child to consume an extreme amount of hot sauce, salt, pepper or nonfood item is not an appropriate form of discipline and depending upon the age and size of the child could be life threatening. Reports of this nature could be seen as meeting the criteria for a cruel/grossly inappropriate behavior modification investigative assessment, depending on the circumstances.

As I am now seeing this on another thread Just to clarify, I never used the the words "criminal offense". Neither in this post, nor in relation to anyone at MDC. I referenced the DSS document to highlight that withholding food is a serious issue, even according to the law. I am sorry that so many feelings were hurt by the misunderstanding. I believe it is a serious issue that is important to explore and to look for alternative solutions that meet both the needs of the child and the needs of the parent. My intent is not to judge, but explore the issue and advocate for the child.

Pat

[~member~]

Originally Posted by johub

As traffic laws are also a form of control.
So I guess I really dont understand what control means to you if not these things.

Okay, if I am driving and no one is looking, I do not rip off my sealtbelt and proceed to drive on the beach just because i felt that I finally had control over my own actions, feelings, thoughts, and words.
I would not take my seatbelt off because that is risking my life, and I think that is termed 'suicidal'.

I value my life and I value my children's lives. IMO, if you do not value your own life, how can you value another's?

[johub]

Originally Posted by scubamama

Please see post #63:

As I am now seeing this on another thread Just to clarify, I never used the the words "criminal offense". Neither in this post, nor in relation to anyone at MDC. I referenced the DSS document to highlight that withholding food is a serious issue, even according to the law. I am sorry that so many feelings were hurt by the misunderstanding. I believe it is a serious issue that is important to explore and to look for alternative solutions that meet both the needs of the child and the needs of the parent. My intent is not to judge, but explore the issue and advocate for the child.

Pat

You are right the term was "investagable issue" . My apologies I was indeed too lazy to go back and find the exact post. I dont see a significant difference betweent he two however.
Your "intent" aside. TO even bring up "withholding of food" in a circumstance when food was not being withheld in any way which would be legally recognized by even the very authority you quote is to equate apples with oranges, and imply abuse when none exists.
Offensive and judgmental to many of us I am sure.
Misunderstanding? no I dont think so. I think you were loud and clear.

[johub]

eta- deleted post, no need to go off on yet another tangent.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by johub

eta- deleted post, no need to go off on yet another tangent.

Me too . . .

[~member~]

Originally Posted by johub

Yes you are a grown up with self control. IS that what you are saying? you equate control with self control?

No. It is not self-control to want to preserve your life. IMO, human beings want to live. Learning how to stay safe is not even about control.

Taking a child's bike away is about control.
Teaching your child that a helmet is to be worn when riding a bike, is not about control, but about learning how to be safe.
Not giving the 13 month old a marker is not about control, but about not putting the baby in danger of choking or ingesting harmful chemicals.

[writermommy]

You could also give the baby a washable marker and sit with her, rather than just not letting her have it at all. Little ones naturally want to do what the older ones are doing and are allowed to explore in my house.

[WuWei]

Clearly, there is nothing to say.


Pat