NIP in churches/temple? Also, NIP toddler/tandem issues

[momileigh]

Here's a puzzling two-parter in which I invite you all to explore my psyche, fascinating as it is.

I am a fairly militant NIPer. I am ready (and even strangely excited) to tell anyone who says a negative word to me that I have the legal right to breastfeed wherever I darn well please. And I do bf wherever necessary. Except in one circumstance: in a house of worship. Whether I'm in my own temple or in a church for a wedding or whatever, I can't put my finger on it, but I just don't feel right about it. I always leave if I need to nurse and find the nursery or a nice place to sit outside the sanctuary. It is certainly not because I think God would be offended. And nowhere else do I feel self-conscious or worry about what others will think. It is a mystery to me why I do this, yet I don't know that I'm wrong either. What is your take? What do YOU do?

(As an aside, I did take up arms in the nursery once when the attendent insisted that I go sit in the corner and face the wall of the nursery while bfing! I told her in no uncertain terms that no way was I going to be treated like a second-class citizen when bottle-feeding mothers were welcome to sit wherever they liked. She hasn't dared challenge me since.)

OK part 2!

I choose not to bf my 2 1/2 y.o. in public. WHY do I choose this? I have no idea. It all started when I had a job where she was with me all the time, but I was not allowed to NIP. (I worked w/ teenaged boys and the boss wouldn't have it, and I needed the job, and she wasn't nursing all that often anyway, SO...) Then when she was only nursing once or twice a day, it just never came up. Now that we have the new baby, she's actually nursing a lot more often. (I don't like wasting the letdown on the side that the little one isn't on, so my big girl is almost always invited to come have the other side when sister is nursing.) BUT, I can't bring myself to tandem NIP. It has just been so long since I NIPed my toddler anyway, plus the added exposure factor... it just doesn't feel right. But recently I was at a very AP play group, and dd#1 came over and reached for me and said, "I need num-nums." I told her "only at home" and was then compelled to explain myself to the mom who overheard it... and I couldn't do it. I was just, "Um, I don't nurse her in public anymore." "Why?" "Ummm... I guess I just don't, I don't know." I felt like an idiot.

Can anyone relate, help me make sense of this, set me straight, or anything? I guess I'm just so used to knowing why I do everything I do, so this is kinda bothering me.

[counterGOPI]

hey there. as a devotee of Krsna i can say that it is very encouraged to NIP in the temple or wherever. we wear saris and can cover DC and ourselves up with the fabric.breastfeeding is pretty much expected for all babies. its great I have nursed before the Lord and felt fine with it b/c its so accepted and b/c the Lord was nursed himself
<3,
nicole

[indie]

I have no problem nursing in church.

My favorite scripture on the subject:

Joel 2:16
"Sanctify the congregation, assemble the aged; gather the children, even infants at the breast."

I did stop nursing my toddler in public at some point though. I guess I didn't feel like dealing with people.

[lilyka]

Do you go to churches where people bring in thier coffee and breakfast? Or do you go to one where there is a unspoken or even written no fod allowed policy? It could be that in your mind, it is just disreaspectful or unacceptable to chow down in church. Would you give your child crackers or a sippy cup in church? Or would you take your baby out for a snack?

the only place I wouldn't nurse was in the pool. nd teh reason was based soley on that I wouldn't be allowed to have a sippy cup or bottle or anything else that was "food" in there. I would get out to nurse just like a bottle feeding mother would have to get out to feed her baby. Not to mention to get your boob out of the water you would have to get so far out of the water that you would just be there shivering anyway . . . . but on principle there was a no food in the water policy and i abided by that even with nursing. perhaps this is your hang up.

As for tooddlers I never nursed them in public after about 15-18 months (memory fuzzy . . . ). It wasn't that I was embarrassed or anything. that was just one of our rules. By the time they were old enough to wait and wern't depending on it for nutrition they could just wait until a better time. I didn't enjoy nursing my toddlers in public so we just didn't. They just stopped asking after a certain point . . like they were busy being entertained by other things.

[rachdoll]

I understand being self conscious about nip during a worship service, btdt. If I am at a different church, I don't nip. But I always figure that the members of my church are accepting of other members, and will nip dd there if need be, though I try not to anymore (not saying that members of other churches are not accepting!). Each time she asks, I mentally evaluate the situation - do I think she can wait until we get home? Is she going to throw a tantrum if I don't nurse her?

In my community, I am afraid that for people to see me nursing my 3.5 y.o. while pregnant would do more harm than good as far as convincing others to bf, kwim? I do still nip at LLL meetings, though, and if we had an AP playgroup nearby, I'd nip there. I think every nursing mom has every right to set boundaries with their nurslings, though. Once our nurslings are old enough that breastmilk is not their only or main source of nourishment, I think it is perfectly reasonable that they begin learning that sometimes they will not get what they want right when they want it. If that means that you won't nurse your dd at playgroup, then that is what it means. You really don't need to explain yourself to anyone other than your dd, imo.

[momileigh]

WOW.

Here I've been scratching my head over this for weeks, and you've gone and hit the nail on the head within MINUTES of my post, lilyka!

I would NEVER have a snack, or give one to my dd, in a house of worship! Once my dh ate something and I was HORRIFIED! So of course that makes perfect sense. My hangup has really nothing to do w/ nursing, its about FOOD!

You should totally be a psychotherapist! (or ARE you?)

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

The only time I felt uncomfortable with nursing in church was when there was over 200 people there for homecoming and there was no way I could sit in a spot were someone wouldnt get a shot of my boob. Ds will in no way allow being covered up and I refuse to cover up anyway. I try to be as discreet as possible but sometimes especially now that he is older he tends to pop off at the least provocation As I sit and nurse in church i often think of Mary nursing Jesus and I just cant imagine her getting up and going outside to do so. I do go to the back of the church were the water fountain is they have bench back there that I use. I wouldnt care at all to nurse sitting in the pew but for the reasons listed above it just isnt something I would be comfy with. I can just imagine the poor preacher getting upset if he caught site of my boob or nip. I honestly couldnt care less anymore who sees my boobs I mean to me in a sense they r just like a bottle and who gets embarresed at seeing a bottle

DD nused until she was 32months old but honestly I was never out in public with her enough for her to want to nuse out at at say Wal-Mart.

[miss_sonja]

In addition to everything else about nursing, in church/temple, I think of nursing as a TOOL. It's a great way to get DD 2.5 to calm down or stay quiet. I don't leave if at all possible, partly because I believe children should be part of the worship service, and that wouldn't be possible without nursing. It's liquid gold--better than toys for distraction!

[Momtwice]

I think the friend at the AP group who pushed you into explaining why you don't NIP the toddler is rather rude to challenge you like that.

She may have meant well, been wanting to challenge the status quo, all that Good Stuff, but she made you feel bad and question yourself.

Too bad she couldn't have said "oh, I understand, you feel the need to set some gentle limits at that age." (even if she didn't feel that need, to recognize that YOU have the right to have that need respected!!!)

If we are going to give women the right to nurse Anywhere and Everywhere, we must also give them the right to say No, I am not comfortable nursing Now/Here.

I was a lot like you when nursing. I was a staunch lactivist who found that I myself preferred privacy at many times.

I think you are doing fine and how you feel matters!!!!

[bwylde]

I decided when they want to nurse, they will be nursed (unless there's a really good reason why we can't right then). While I try not to give them food during our chuch services, I don't have a problem nursing them. As a matter of fact, I nursed DS (who will be 4 in May) in church on Sunday. No one even noticed . It's not often he asks in public so I knew he really needed to. It's all about personal comfort.

[Slabobbin]

I don't think the woman was rude to ask "Why". I could see myself doing that and I wouldn't mean a thing by it, I would just genuenily curious.

[mombh]

ds is 2 1/2and I also don't nurse inside the synagogue anymore. I am comfortable going to another room where Iam fine nursingi n front of other moms. I did nurse there when my kids were babies since no-one would expect them to wait for their food and they would just nurse in the sling. In fact it would be more disruptive to services to haveto get up and walk out with a screaming hungrybaby I also step out to another room as do most other moms togive my kids snacks and change diapers etc;

I also feel more private about nip a 2 1/2 yr , I do nurse at LLL and freinds homes etc; but when I go shopping it' s not like he "has" to nurse now! if in the event he does ask to nurse in the middle of walmart I would smile and suggest that he would probably be more comfortable when we get home soon and I have never had a problem with not feeling comfortable about asking him to wait, and that is part of what I love about extbfing, we have our own special time together and sometimes it's o.k. to wait a little and toddler is also gently learning that their are places that momy is not comfortable nursing or singing or dancing or being loud or whatever

[TeaBag]

Well, I nursed dd (29 months) in church three times this past weekend. I don't give my children food or drinks during Mass, but I see nursing as so much more than food. And as a pp said, it's sometimes hard to keep that age quiet during a service, so it's quick and easy and It works.

As far as NIP. I have tandem nursed in public. It's been a while, but I did it. The main reason I didn't very often or for very long was because it was EXTREMELY hard for me to feel discreet while tandeming. My shirt has to be up, and out of the way and I just felt very exposed. But I do nurse my youngest nursling in public(see first paragraph!) , and would nurse older one, but she's down to once a week or so and mostly only asks when she's needing some quiet, private time with me.

[momileigh]

Wow, this is so interesting!

I didn't feel the other mom was being "rude." She only has one child, a 4-m.o., and she NIP's, and I think she wanted to be sure that I didn't feel that I "couldn't" bf dd in the park there. You know, like being supportive, thinking that I thought I "couldn't" so she was going to help me feel OK about it. KWIM? She just hasn't parented a toddler and probably didn't even go there mentally, about how it can be different when the babies get older. Plus, my dd is an especially cute child (if I do say so... ) and people in general will give her anything she asks for (or doesn't ask for) and feel bad when she doesn't get whatever she wants. Whenever I deny her anything in front of someone other than dh, I'm likely to get a puckered frowny face from the other person, and that's kinda what I got from this mom when I denied dd her "num nums."

[Peppamint]

I can understand how you feel about NIP a toddler... after ds' birthday it got harder, not so much worrying about what people thought, but it's much easier to nurse a big kid while relaxing on the couch- it's hard when you're in a hard chair in public and you're nursing a kid who's legs hang 1/2 way to the floor.

I always NIP at church. People bottle feed and give their kids snacks- and I'm sure G-d isn't offended... I think he'd be more offended at all the people who are unwilling to even consider His (superior) food source for babies.

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by Slabobbin

I don't think the woman was rude to ask "Why". I could see myself doing that and I wouldn't mean a thing by it, I would just genuenily curious.

You know that could be true. While it sounded to me like she was judging the OP for not NIP, it's also entirely possible she was curious and figuring out what SHE wanted to do.

[minkajane]

I went to an LDS church with my friend once and nursed DS. It's a 3-hour service and he was 11 months old, so he needed to nurse. I was sitting next to this little old lady in a wheelchair, and when DS fussed between boobs, she smiled and said "He wants some more of that mama milk!" Then, after the service, she "lectured" me that I was never to be ashamed or embarrassed to give my son the best, then she told me how she had nursed all her children. Based on her age, I'm guessing she was nursing just when docs were starting to tell people how much better their scientific formula was than dirty breastmilk. Yay for her! I personally have no problems nursing in a house of worship. I believe we honor the Great One when we use our bodies as s/he intended.

[Janice in Canada]

re: NIP in church
The only things that would hold me back, is that it is so darn quiet, everyone would hear my dd ask to "nurse" - so they would know what I was doing! (We ended up not going to church for a time). Also, there are few people in church, and its so quiet, I think everyone would be watching was I was doing, instead of listening to the preacher. You almost have to sit stone still in our church, since there are few people and they are all over 60 years old!


Re: not wanting to NIP an older child, and being a militant lactivist.

I can relate. I've been the only "just a mom" on the Breastfeeding Committee for Canada for years now, and I've often been on TV, newspapers, radio, etc to give interviews on NIP and breastfeeding rights. Since I've kind of been the NIP spokesperson in Canada, I felt like a real hypocrite when I started not wanting to NIP once my dd was 3 years or so, (She nursed until almost 5 years old).

But I realized that my feelings meant something, too. And I live in a very small town, where everyone know everyone else's business. Dh didn't want dd to be stigmatized (even though I think he was unrealistic in that fear). But overall, I didn't want to look "too" wierd - I mean, here, breastfeeding past one year of age, is pretty weird already. I'm sure everyone already talks about me, but bfing past 3 years was more than I wanted them to know.

Janice

[smirlynwittles]

re: NIP in church, etc

I think it's ok unless it is Yom Kippur or some other holiday service that involves fasting. In that case I'd go in the lobby or something.

[momileigh]

Hmmmm that's interesting, Amy, as no one expects a baby to fast for any reason...

I mean, I would never drink on Yom Kippur in front of someone who wasn't drinking that day. (Since I've been pregnant or nursing for several years now it has been a looong time since I've done a complete fast.) But why would it make a diff for the baby?

Do you think people who are thirsty would look on the child with envy? Really?

I must say, after all, that I am really surprised that so many people say it is OK to nurse in church etc. I actually find that encouraging myself! Although I don't think I'll do it since there is a very handy nursery and I do have the huge refreshment-in-the-sanctuary hangup.