Help needed ASAP!! *Update* - Page 2

[pdx.mothernurture]

Also, D.O.C.'s video, "The Prepuce" is a great intro to the anatomy and physiology of the foreskin. You can find it on this page, part way down, under "Medical School Curriculum": http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

It's about 20 minutes long, and a bit monotone, but facinating!

I think few parents could watch the video and still circumcise, knowing what they're taking away from their child.

Jen

[gridley13]

My last email to her came back to me, so I suspect she has blocked my email or something like that. I guess I overstepped my boundaries.

I hope I am wrong and it was just a computer glitch. I hope she reads what I sent.

I tried.

One thing I know for sure: Every incident I encounter dealing with circ makes me more and more adamant to be an intactivist. I never had a clue how passionate I would become about this.

I am really sad because I do not want to lose a friend over this, but I refuse to ever say to someone, "well, you have to make whatever choice is best for your family" If they choose to circ, I have to believe that they did not look at the information. I just don't understand how someone could adequately look at the information, then CHOOSE to do it.

[Quirky]

Can you call her?

[gridley13]

Yeah, I can call her. I probably will today, I just am nervous now.
I am gonna get some more coffee in me and give it a try... will let you know how it goes!

[PuppyFluffer]

Good luck!

[gridley13]

She didn't block me! She said she has been reading some of it. So I will keep on! Thanks everyone.

[Tofu the Geek]

Originally Posted by gridley13

"suppose he falls in love with a Canadian girl, from what I hear the rates are very low there! Or almost any other area for that matter."

Well I live in Canada and EVERY guy I have dated has been circumcised (and it's quite a large number, and really I'm not a tramp ). Also, every friend that has had a boy in the last 10 years has had them circumcised (I think that's only around 5 or 6 boys though). I know that many of the LLL and "crunchier" mamas have left their boys intact. Out of guys I am friends with, only ONE is intact (he's in his late 20's).

It is possible our rates are going down recently but I'd say you'd find a MUCH larger circumcised poplulation in guys 25-35 (the only age range I've either seen or discussed it with). I really hope, as you say, that our rates are low and perhaps this is just and oddity that I've run into all the "rare" circumcized males around here.

[Quirky]

Gridley, maybe her spam/porn filter blocked your email? I know a lot of email programs will block anything remotely appearing sexual, and the foreskin issue tends to generate lots of blockable words!!

If you've already sent her a good chunk of stuff to digest, I would slow down the flow and talk to her in a little while about it rather than sending her even more stuff. Let it sink in, then talk to her (and hopefully her dh too).

[gridley13]

I was basing my Canadian info just on a chat I had with a Canadian friend. I really don't know what I am talking about

Quirky, the only reason I feel so desparate is she is due in less than 2 weeks and her midwife stripped her membranes yesterday!!

[njeb]

Originally Posted by TechnoGranola

Well I live in Canada and EVERY guy I have dated has been circumcised (and it's quite a large number, and really I'm not a tramp ). Also, every friend that has had a boy in the last 10 years has had them circumcised (I think that's only around 5 or 6 boys though). I know that many of the LLL and "crunchier" mamas have left their boys intact. Out of guys I am friends with, only ONE is intact (he's in his late 20's).

It is possible our rates are going down recently but I'd say you'd find a MUCH larger circumcised poplulation in guys 25-35 (the only age range I've either seen or discussed it with). I really hope, as you say, that our rates are low and perhaps this is just and oddity that I've run into all the "rare" circumcized males around here.

Yes, your circ. rates have gone way down just in the last 20 years. 25-35 years ago, the vast majority of baby boys in Canada were circ'ed. I'm not sure if it ever got as high as the U.S., though.
Therefore, the males in your age group would mostly be circ'ed.

[Quirky]

Didn't realize it was so close! You're right, you should pursue this!!

Although if she has another 2 weeks to go, WTF is her midwife doing stripping her membranes NOW? That's a labor induction method.

On the Canadian front - it is true that rates have plummeted since the death of Ryleigh McWillis and the discontinuation of circ coverage by the provincial health plans (all except one, I believe). So for her baby, if he grows up to date Canadian women, any sexual partners they have had before him are likely to be intact. Rates in Canada for adults today are not indicative of rates 20 years from now.

[polarbear]

30-Something Canadian male here. I am circumcised, as were all of my close friends from highschool. From what I have seen since then, at College and in the gym, and at the local pool, the majority of males younger than I are intact. Two local hospitals have given stats of 60% and 80% intact. My son is intact.

[Tofu the Geek]

Originally Posted by polarbear

30-Something Canadian male here. I am circumcised, as were all of my close friends from highschool. From what I have seen since then, at College and in the gym, and at the local pool, the majority of males younger than I are intact. Two local hospitals have given stats of 60% and 80% intact. My son is intact.

That's great to hear! As for my Canadian friends who circumcised over the last several years, let's just say they are clueless about alot of things. I'm not actually friends with them anymore because I can't stand their ignorance and unwillingness to research ANYTHING at all before they go ahead and do it.

[gridley13]

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/

http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/yr99p-e.html

Here are some stats.

[Tofu the Geek]

Originally Posted by gridley13

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/

http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/yr99p-e.html

Here are some stats.

Thanks.

The Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS)'s neonatal circumcision policy since 1975 has been that there is no medical indication for male neonatal circumcision.

Yet sadly, MIL stilled circumcized her sons born in 1978, 1980, and 1985.

[hummingbear]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Although if she has another 2 weeks to go, WTF is her midwife doing stripping her membranes NOW? That's a labor induction method.

My reaction too!

Glad to hear she is in dialogue with you. No new ideas from me.....yet.

[Microsoap]

Originally Posted by sunflower_mommy

Also, D.O.C.'s video, "The Prepuce" is a great intro to the anatomy and physiology of the foreskin. You can find it on this page, part way down, under "Medical School Curriculum": http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

It's about 20 minutes long, and a bit monotone, but facinating!

I think few parents could watch the video and still circumcise, knowing what they're taking away from their child.

Jen

That video freakin' rocks! It says it all when it comes to the function and value of the foreskin in both audio and visual needs. Then, if you watch the Intact.ca video of the poor black infant getting circumcised... YES, with sound (we mustn't chicken out and let the person watching it off the hook here), you'll have a very effective measure against circumcision and proper education.

I sent my link to my quasi-pro-circ partner. Now I have to convince him to watch it, since almost _anything_ anti-circ, he gets defensive about. As you may tell, he's circ'd.

[gridley13]

My friend finally emailed me and said she has read through most of what I sent and while she agrees with all the reasons against it, their decision remains the same. It all boiled down to the *#$& locker room issue. She said that was what she kept coming back to. That he might be teased. She added that she made an appt for a consultation to discuss pain medications and will be making sure he gets the best available. She also talked to moms who have had their sons circ'd and of course they all told her it was fine.

She added that she doubts there are really that many men out there who have problems with sex due to circumcision.

I don't think I can put any more energy into this. I am feeling like I don't even want to be friends with people who see the information but go ahead and do it. I feel like I can't respect a mother who knowingly allows someone to harm their baby for no good reason. Am I the only one who seriously feels like ending long friendships over this? I am in tears. I am obsessed. What is my problem? Sorry, too many questions.

[gridley13]

I included this in my reply email to her:

Well, I vowed not to stop trying until he was born... as far as his circle of friends, suppose he was ****'s age and our playgroup was still intact... no pun intended. The only ones in that group circumcised were ****, being half Jewish, and **** for medical reasons. That was a white middle class group, right? Remember that the possibility of being teased is just that- a possibility. The loss of his perfectly normal and very useful foreskin is definite, and so are the risks of an unneccesary cosmetic surgery. To protect him from possible teasing. Hope he doesn't need glasses! Better get lasik surgery on him just in case. Better safe than sorry.

included the doctors against circ links too.

[morning glory]

I know you are worn out on this one...I'm worn out just reading about it...but...since the main issue for her seems to be the teasing her son *might* encounter why not ask her has she ever thought that her son might end up being teased for being circ'd?

I don't see the teasing argument as holding a whole lot of water but lets just say it does. Its generally minorities that are teased. With the way circumcision rates are going in Canada her son will be in the minority. So it would stand to reason that he could actually be made fun of for being circ'd.

Not that I'd ever stand for my boys teasing anyone, but I don't plan to sugar coat the circ issue for them once I feel they are mature enough to hear it they will know that the reason they have a foreskin and some other boys don't is because their parents had a surgery done on them as babies that I consider to be mutilation. I'm sure other parents of intact children will tell them the same thing (maybe using weaker language) but does she really want her boy to hear about a surgery she had done to him as a baby in school? Or is she planning to tell her son that she had a really good part of his body chopped off because she thought it would look better that way?

And while we are on the topic of teasing...are they going to bind his feet so that they don't get too big? (we teased my sister all the time for her big feet) or dye his hair if its red? (a girl in my class got a lot of flack over hers) or tell him to not have an opinion? (can't even tell you how many times I've been made fun of for what I think)

I hope you have one more conversation in you...it might sway her.

Casey