20/20 Friday--Stupid in America - Page 4

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Leav97

I agree. I don't think that vouchers are the end solution to the problem. But, at least it would give the students that are stuck in the system some options.

I think the final solution would be a complete redesign of the system. I'm having a hard enough time considering all of the choices for my ONE child. Designing a system that would work for every child... I'm not sure it's possible.

This is why I think that the first thing that needs to happen is decentralization. With vouchers, we come closer to the Belgian system where the money follows the kids. Think about it: if every parent had the right to send their child to any school around, initially the choices would be quite limited but within a few years, I think that we'd have all kinds of specialty schools around. Why? Because there are all different kinds of *kids* around. The more demand there is for a particular kind of school, the more of them would exist. Of course vouchers aren't perfect, but they are a step in the right direction.

[ErikaDP]

I agree with the PP who said that the system is completely broken and needs to be replaced. And we have a great example with what to replace it with in the community college and public libraries systems.
I say that community learning centers could be put in to place in former public schools to be used like the libraries and community colleges are used now.
A student would get a community learning card, and sign up for the classes and programs that interest them. Families would be able to structure their child's education based on the child's interests and abilities, at their own pace, and in their own time and schedule. Learning would be relevant because it would be chosen by the student. All of the traditional subjects(hopefully taught in non-traditional ways), the arts, music, sports and all other elective activities would be offered. There would also be child care available for students that need a safe place to be during the day.
Just replacing the present public schools with "choice" schools that compete for students to attend will only help those students who are "inexpensive and easy" to educate. And I think that any student that has needs beyond the "norm" will be left in the ineffective government system as it exists now.
We need radical systematic public educational change, not just reforms. Just like the changes that were enacted to set up the present system 100+ years ago.

Take Care,
Erika :
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"Knowledge without compassion is useless"-SCW
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by ErikaDP

I think that the one thing that has not been said here about the school system in the US is that it is producing EXACTLY what it was designed to produce.
A willing consumer/student class who asks no questions(even if they have problems that need answers), a consumer/student class who believes what it is told by the government(even if it makes no sense), and a consumer/student class who will work, live, learn and spend according to an arbitrary schedule set by the government(lately, this involves earlier and earlier testing and identification of the consumer/student into categories that follow them through out their lives. In the recent past, this was mostly achieved by gender, class and race).
And when you are in such a all consuming environment(everyone around you is in the identical situation with pretty much the same options) it can be near impossible to see a way out of those circumstances(and the media makes sure to portray anyone who gets out as rare and unique, thus reinforcing the impossibility of real change). This explains why even in the "good" suburban schools, the failure rates are growing but it is not seen by those populations as a problem at "my" schools.
What to do about fixing the problems is the topic for a whole other thread. And I am not sure that schooling public is ready for the radical changes that need to happen.

Take Care,
Erika :
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"Knowledge without compassion is useless"-SCW
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt

Wow Erika . . .so well put. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Openskyheart]

Erika - my kids go to public school homestudy programs that are very much like you've described. We're fortunate that the programs offer weekly optional workshops that my kids can take, have curriculum available in all subjects, which can use or not, and have almost total freedom to educate them in whatever way the family sees fit (I say almost, because technically, we have requirements - although they are very loosely defined). I even know several radical unschooling families in each of the programs my kids are enrolled in. So...I know that what you've described can work - because it is working in our community.

There is a caveat though, and it is also one of the reasons I voted *against* vouchers in California when the proposition came up years ago: When tax dollars are involved with education, the system requires "accountablity." What this means in my son's program at this time, is that they strongly advise the kids to take the standardized tests each year, because the program has more than 99 kids enrolled, so money for the program is tied to test numbers. My dd's program has fewer than 99 kids enrolled, so testing does not effect their income. My kids do not take the standardized tests, because I exercise my right to opt out. I told my son's consultant that I was opting out for her, and her colleagues' sake since I thought it was appalling that one high stakes test can be used to fire teachers. I have a big problem with the high stakes aspect of the tests. She understood, but still wished I'd let ds take the test. .

I think a voucher system would also effect private schools, and give them less freedom to educate the way they see fit, because when tax dollars are involved, the government wants accountability. Soon, the private schools would be required to give standardized tests, the tests would soon become "high stakes" and the private schools would begin teaching to the tests in much the same way the public schools are now doing. The other problem with vouchers was that the amount they were offering per student wouldn't even cover the cheapest parochial school's tuition. I thought it was a scheme devised by the wealthy who wanted some assistance with their children's private school tuition.

My son was actually going to an independent secular private school at the time, so presumably I could have benefited from vouchers directly, but I still voted against them.

The Belgium system as described on the program could be a better system than the voucher system, but I'd still be wary of "accountability" and it's effect on the way the schools could operate.