I need to whine!

[OTMomma]

I hate this. I am to the point that I even hate that I want to be pregnant, that I want another baby (I have one dd who is 3.5). I hate that my family doesn't feel complete. I hate how I feel when I read other people's sig. lines who have many children, or who are preg. I hate that AF showed today, and I knew it was coming, but it still hurt. I hate that I can't just find peace about this and "relax". I hate that I feel I can't control this. I hate that my desire to have another baby has turned into such a negative thing- because wanting a baby shouldn't be so heart breaking!

If I'm not supposed to have another baby- Why do I want it so bad? I've never wanted something this badly in my life. Nothing. I've never wanted something so much for so long that I just wished I could not want it anymore. Not to say that I wish I didn't like kids, but if I could just feel like my family was complete and the pain of missing this child I've never met would go away!

I hate that I feel so ill about this I can't even post to the TTC threads anymore, because I am trying so hard not to think about it. I hate that thinking, charting, planning, taking herbs and crap, didn't matter. I hate that I feel like I have a hole in me. I hate that I actually said out loud in front of dd the other day "I want another baby"- I quickly explained that I meant a sibling for her. I hate that she's asked for a baby brother for a year and all I can tell her to do is pray- I don't know what else to say. I hate that I feel like God doesn't care. I hate that I feel like if I never have another baby, that something inside of me will die. I hate that I've had to buy 8 baby gifts for others who have had babies while I've been trying. I hate that my mother just doesn't get it. I hate that my best friend just got an IUD because she's too fertile and I'm not.

I hate the look on dh's face when I tell him I'm not pregnant again. I hate women who get pregnant easily and don't appreciate it. I even hate pregnant smilies!!

OK, I think that's all out.
OH, I hate that someone is probably going to read this and this what a b*tch I am. If so, please don't tell me about it. I"m sure I"d hate that too.

[Yulia_R]

Well, let me tell you a funny story.

A man was praying all his life, many times a day, for wealth and he believed with all his heart that one day the One will give him alot of money.
It never happened and he died being very poop. When he saw God he asked him "Lord, why you never answered my prayers I was praying so hard?!"
Well, God answers "What do you want from me?! you have never even bothered to buy a lottery ticket!"

I guess the bottom line is that we can make things happen for ourselves instead of hating, whining and feeling pity for ourselves and frustrated because somebody didn’t give us something that others take for granted.
I can not conceive naturally too, so we went with IVF and now enjoying our baby-boy. The decision of whether to whine or to work hard to make your dream come true is up to you and your husband. It's really up to you! If you really want it so much, stop whining and just do it! Cheer up, mama, everything is cool !

[Attached2Elijah]

just stop whining and do it? Seriously... if it was the easy, I seriously doubt there would be so many infertile women out there. So what happens to a woman who wants a baby very badly but can not afford the infertility treatments and/or her insurance won't cover it? Does she just not deserve to have any more children? I think perhaps that statement was a bit heartless.

That being said... OP, I feel your pain. Secondary infertility hurts so bad. It makes me feel so guilty most of the time when I think about how badly I want another and how I think that our family is not complete... I wish that I, too, could just be happy with the blessing I do have but unfortunately, my heart does not agree.

I pray that we each get our BFPs very soon and our deepest desire is to be fulfilled. Much love and light to you, momma... I so know how you feel.

[Yulia_R]

Well, I do not think that my advice was heartless. It’s always much easier to whine then actually trying to make things happen. Guess what, we also could NOT afford IVF and still paying it off and like most, our insurance covered nothing. But we wanted it bad enough to make it happen!

Now, there is always another option: adoption. It made happy and completed so many families. There are always kids our there that need a loving family.
See, there is always a better choice vs. whining and feeling pity for yourself!

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Attached2Elijah

Secondary infertility hurts so bad...

Secondary infertility...There are alot of women here who could tell you how it feels like when you can not conceive your first baby! It feels BAAAAAAAAD, however they don't tutn into people who hate everything and everybody!

It really hurts me that you attacked me right away. I was trying to give constructive advice instead of whining all together.
I know a lot of people who had to find a second job for few months to pay for IVF.

Few more tips that I forgot to write on the first place. The more a woman thinks about conception the less chances that it happens. I do not remember the explanation (I used to know it) but it blocks something in the woman's body somehow. So, first thing you need to relax and quit thinking about it (do yourself this favor). That is exactly why there are so many stories about infertile women who got pregnant naturally after a baby was born through IVF or adoption or these who just gave up on conception.

Now, it’s a good idea to check your husband first. This test costs just over $100; who knows maybe he is in fault and the problem can be easily solved by using donor sperm.
And finally, there are a lot of different IVF programs. It’s possible to find $10,000 (for everything, including hormones) one cycle or $19,000 which is for as many IVFs as one needs to get a baby home.
Good luck!

[OTMomma]

Yulia- I don't think your posts are constructive or sensitive. No where in my OP did I ask for advice about actually concieving. I needed a safe place to express my emotional distress. I appreciate that you are trying to help, but your posts come off sounding much more like "Suck it up! Get back out there and Do IT- OH, and don't think about it, because that makes it worse!"
How is that even possible?

Attached2Elijah- thank you for your supportive post.

[Attached2Elijah]

First of all, the secondary infertility comment was to the original poster... I was not by any means saying that primary fertility is any less painful. I went through that too, BTW....

I never once attacked you. I simply said that IVF and such are not always an option for everyone. I have a child to take care of already, I can't simply go out and get another job...My husband can't either. He already breaks his back working everyday. To ask him to get another one would be unreasonable.

The adoption process is by no stretch of the imagination a cheap one either... Not everyone can just jump and 'do something about it'... Sometimes our only option IS to conceive naturally and being frustrated that we can't do it is a completely normal emotion. I wouldn't call that whining... I would call it venting and I feel so bad for the original poster being made to feel bad for her perfectly reasonable emotions and the fact that she is being told to 'just do something about it' instead of whining... sometimes people just need to get their frustrations out and I believe MDC INFERTILITY board is supposed to be somewhere safe to do so...

I guess what it comes down to is because we can't afford it we don't deserve another child.

and as for this...

Few more tips that I forgot to write on the first place. The more a woman thinks about conception the less chances that it happens. I do not remember the explanation (I used to know it) but it blocks something in the woman's body somehow. So, first thing you need to relax and quit thinking about it (do yourself this favor). That is exactly why there are so many stories about infertile women who got pregnant naturally after a baby was born through IVF or adoption or these who just gave up on conception.

I have yet to find one person facing infertility that could just relax and let it happen... it's a stressful thing and I think anyone that has been TTCing for any amount of time would agree that sometimes 'just relaxing' isn't as easy as some people would like to think.

[Yulia_R]

OTMomma I’m sorry I misunderstood the pose of your post. However, if you really mean what you wrote there I think you do need help this way or another. Hatred won’t make your life any easier or happier and of course, it won’t complete your family. I’m so sorry for saying that straight and I swear I’m saying it with best intentions!

Attached2Elijan, I think it comes down to “because we give up we don't deserve another child”.

There is a way to adopt and there is a way to adopt. The first way is well known, convenient and expensive: to do it through an adoption agency. You fill a form out and have your money ready. Then you wait forever and ever and by the time they found a child you are ready to adopt her/him without even seeing. I would never go this way!
There is another way, which is harder, but so much better and…cheaper.
First of all, I’m Russian so I know a lot about the country and the way things done there. Second of all, I did check a lot about adoption from Russia and if what I’m going to say now can be done. It can. You do not go to any agencies. You simply fly to Russia, not to a big city though (in big cities orphanages work with adoption agencies). So, you go to a small town (it’s not too hard to online find a lot of addresses of orphanages in small towns). You hire an interpreter in Russia (it will cost you no more then $8 per hour). You visit few orphanages and choose a kid you like. Then you start an adoption process.
Perhaps, the same way you can adopt from some other countries, just need to have some research done.

[melanie.willett]

Perhaps this isn't fair

Because I'm the best friend who just got the IUD, but OTMama's post isn't about hate. It's about frustration. It's about how exahusting it is to fight fate and be reminded every month that you lost, again.

Part of being supportive is knowing when to push and when to just be the shoulder to cry on.

[OTMomma]

, Mel

[melanie.willett]

[AdinaL]

Whoa - stepping in here.

Posts about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and just "doing it" and not whining - ARE NEVER HELPFUL. Regardless of the context.

Infertility - As I am sure we all know - is overwhelming. It takes over ever part of your life, it makes you crazy, depressed, hopeless, frustrated. If you managed to get through your journey to having a child without feeling any of that - Congrats and more power to you. You are the FIRST woman I have ever met to be so lucky.

Infertility is infertility. My pain trying to conceive my first child is no less or greater than OTMomma's trying to conceive her second. Period. This one upping that so frequently happens does nothing but push another woman down. This board is a source of support, not belittling of someone's pain.

As for whining - she wasn't whining - she was venting, raging, getting all the crap out of her head so that she can face another day, so she can deal with the problem. You telling her to buck up and "decide" to do something, makes her think her pain isn't valid. Which if you are infertile, seems awfully unfair.

It is NEVER as simple as saying "oh, relax" or "just adopt" or "do IVF". Whata load of horse puckey. Every circumstance is different, every life is different, everyone's capacity is different. Some people can move on to adoption, some people can't bring themselves to do IVF, some people decide to live childfree.

REGARDLESS - just because there are options doesn't make the options attractive from the get go. You can't honestly tell me you jumped into IVF with nary a hesitation - and if you do (having gone through it myself) I will call bullshit.

Posts venting one's frustration when it comes to fertility are pretty common here. In fact, there is one that I wrote 2+ years ago still kicking around on here. When people are driven to post their frustrations - they don't want a "just relax" or a "my pain is worse than yours" - they want commiseration, they want support to get it all out before they burst. The permission to be angry. Society doesn't allow us to be angry over this, to be upset at the seeming defectiveness of our bodies. Holding all that in leads to a very depressed woman. A very alone woman.

I am pretty sure that OTMomma has read a lot (most infertile women do) and knows all the steps. Whether or not she is ready to take them, or has emotionally processed all of what is going on is entirely another. Allow her some space to vent, whine, bitch or complain. We have all earned it. And just because you have a day where it is all too much for you, doesn't mean you have become bitter, or full of hate or whatever else you were saying.

I went through it all, there were days when I wanted to strangle something, someone with my bare hands. There were days I felt alarmingly hopeful. Now that I am pregnant, I feel relieved. And apphrehensive. I know this is going to come up again. I know I will have to face it all again.

But you know what - I am NOT a hate filled, ugly person. I got those emotions out when I had them, expressed them, instead of telling myself to be a frickin happy shiny care bear, and moved on. I am better person for THAT- for being able to express when I am angry, when I am rageful - for not expecting myself to always be proactive, and pragmatic. For allowing myself to experience human emotions.

This board is a space for that - in addition to sharing knowledge! As the moderator here, I intend to keep it that way. This board wasn't around when I first came to MDC - and I love that it has become the place it has- that people post things like this - and other women know, KNOW, they aren't alone. Infertility is still too much in teh dark, too much thought to be "the woman's fault", there is still shame associated with it. I may not be able to single handedly change that for all of America...but I will sure as hell go down trying to change that for people here.

[AdinaL]

Oh, and one more thing.

Infertility is NOT in someone's head. Often it is a MEDICAL CONDITION.

I so dare you to go to a hospital and tell someone with a heart condition to "just relax" or "stop thinking about it" and it will all get better. It doesn't work that way. You don't get better because you relax or ignore something.

I think that the BS we are handed about stress causing our infertility is just that. BS. Complete and utter.

Do I think that there may be people out there who get so worked up that their relationships with their spouses suffer, they begin to eat badly and dont' take care of themselves? yes. But I do not think that women getting stressed magically makes their reproductive organs cease to function. Women get pregnant during all sorts of stressful situations, rape, poverty, war torn countries....and yet, my stress is magically at the root of my infertility.

That is, in fact, an insensitive comment.

[djs_girl517]

OTMomma, I am sorry that this is hurting you so much right now. You have every right to hate everything right now, and every right to use this safe place to vent. I encourage you to get very involved with the 30+ thread. The ladies there are amazing. If you ever need to talk, you are more than welcome to IM or PM me. I have moved on from the obsessive trying, but I have not forgotten what it's like. In fact, I've seen enough people forget what it's like and make insensitive comments that I vow to NEVER forget what IF feels like.

Adina, thank you for once again saying what I am too angry to say myself.

[Yulia_R]

Well, what can I say, I guess we all are very different and therefore, we function differently too. Whatever would have helped me in a situation and mood like that was met almost as an offend by you guys.
I didn’t think about it and that was my mistake. Unfortunately, no one interpreted my words the only way I meant them, words of support, share of my own experience, words that I hoped would cheer up and bring hope.
I’m a very straight person who also has often difficulties with being tactful. My friends have learned to accept me the way I am, but I guess unintentionally I can hurt people who don’t know me too well. I’m sorry if this was the case here. I do remember how difficult infertility is (I'll have to face it at least a couple more times) and I never meant to hurt a person who is going through this right now.

Adinal, just wanted to add that I have never stated that my pain is any grater then anybody else’s. It is not.
I did have a lot of rough days due to my infertility problems. But it is also true that my husband’s and my attitude “We will do what we have to do and we will try everything we can try to conceive and if nothing works we are going to have kids this way or another (meaning adoption)” did help ALOT and I honestly do not remember myself being too angry, too frustrated or too miserable. I have also never felt guilty for being infertile and this was probably also crucially important to remain in more or less good spirit. My husband was my GREATEST support, so I really can imagine it being so much more difficult if this wouldn’t be the case.
As far as IVF, I swear, I felt SO good about it! There was not a doubt in my mind (even for a second) whether to do it or not. The only problem was its cost. It was extremely expensive for us and I was very stressed over the money. That’s it.

Ok, guys, I better leave the forum, I really didn’t want to make anybody’s life any harder than it is by making you angry or annoying you. I just didn’t want to disappear silently; I felt a need to let you know that my words were not to hurt but to help.
Regards,
Yulia.

[Attached2Elijah]

Originally Posted by AdinaL

Whoa - stepping in here.

Posts about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and just "doing it" and not whining - ARE NEVER HELPFUL. Regardless of the context.

Infertility - As I am sure we all know - is overwhelming. It takes over ever part of your life, it makes you crazy, depressed, hopeless, frustrated. If you managed to get through your journey to having a child without feeling any of that - Congrats and more power to you. You are the FIRST woman I have ever met to be so lucky.

Infertility is infertility. My pain trying to conceive my first child is no less or greater than OTMomma's trying to conceive her second. Period. This one upping that so frequently happens does nothing but push another woman down. This board is a source of support, not belittling of someone's pain.

As for whining - she wasn't whining - she was venting, raging, getting all the crap out of her head so that she can face another day, so she can deal with the problem. You telling her to buck up and "decide" to do something, makes her think her pain isn't valid. Which if you are infertile, seems awfully unfair.

It is NEVER as simple as saying "oh, relax" or "just adopt" or "do IVF". Whata load of horse puckey. Every circumstance is different, every life is different, everyone's capacity is different. Some people can move on to adoption, some people can't bring themselves to do IVF, some people decide to live childfree.

REGARDLESS - just because there are options doesn't make the options attractive from the get go. You can't honestly tell me you jumped into IVF with nary a hesitation - and if you do (having gone through it myself) I will call bullshit.

Posts venting one's frustration when it comes to fertility are pretty common here. In fact, there is one that I wrote 2+ years ago still kicking around on here. When people are driven to post their frustrations - they don't want a "just relax" or a "my pain is worse than yours" - they want commiseration, they want support to get it all out before they burst. The permission to be angry. Society doesn't allow us to be angry over this, to be upset at the seeming defectiveness of our bodies. Holding all that in leads to a very depressed woman. A very alone woman.

I am pretty sure that OTMomma has read a lot (most infertile women do) and knows all the steps. Whether or not she is ready to take them, or has emotionally processed all of what is going on is entirely another. Allow her some space to vent, whine, bitch or complain. We have all earned it. And just because you have a day where it is all too much for you, doesn't mean you have become bitter, or full of hate or whatever else you were saying.

I went through it all, there were days when I wanted to strangle something, someone with my bare hands. There were days I felt alarmingly hopeful. Now that I am pregnant, I feel relieved. And apphrehensive. I know this is going to come up again. I know I will have to face it all again.

But you know what - I am NOT a hate filled, ugly person. I got those emotions out when I had them, expressed them, instead of telling myself to be a frickin happy shiny care bear, and moved on. I am better person for THAT- for being able to express when I am angry, when I am rageful - for not expecting myself to always be proactive, and pragmatic. For allowing myself to experience human emotions.

This board is a space for that - in addition to sharing knowledge! As the moderator here, I intend to keep it that way. This board wasn't around when I first came to MDC - and I love that it has become the place it has- that people post things like this - and other women know, KNOW, they aren't alone. Infertility is still too much in teh dark, too much thought to be "the woman's fault", there is still shame associated with it. I may not be able to single handedly change that for all of America...but I will sure as hell go down trying to change that for people here.

Thanks... I was feeling a bit enraged trying to get my oppinions out. You voiced exactly what I was unable to.

[monocyte]

Originally Posted by AdinaL

Whoa - stepping in here.

Posts about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and just "doing it" and not whining - ARE NEVER HELPFUL. Regardless of the context.

Very well said!!

OTMomma - s, everything you hate, I do as well. Except I cannot put it into words as well as you did. The emptyness is within me as well, and most days I feel like no one understands. Another baby for a friend means endless nights of crying myself to sleep, always asking why not me? I feel like I have no one to talk with, just another voice that could understand for real what this feels like. And I HATE having strangers ask me when we are going to have another child. As if I can open a can and out pops a baby.

[pycelan]

OT: I am so sorry that you are having such a hard time.

I do, however, want to tell everyone that I think they were a little hard on Yulia. She apologized and said that she did not mean her post the way it sounded...she felt as though she was trying to help. After she apologized, noone said anything except to continue to attack/reprimand her. I just think that everyone could have given her a little bit of a break. She is new here, and I would be surprised if she posts on the entire site again because I am afraid this experience has left a bad taste in her mouth. I think everyone could have at least given her a "that's ok...thanks for apologizing".

[djs_girl517]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

Well, I do not think that my advice was heartless. It’s always much easier to whine then actually trying to make things happen. Guess what, we also could NOT afford IVF and still paying it off and like most, our insurance covered nothing. But we wanted it bad enough to make it happen! <snip> See, there is always a better choice vs. whining and feeling pity for yourself!

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

It really hurts me that you attacked me right away. I was trying to give constructive advice instead of whining all together.

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

OTMomma I’m sorry I misunderstood the pose of your post. However, if you really mean what you wrote there I think you do need help this way or another. Hatred won’t make your life any easier or happier and of course, it won’t complete your family. I’m so sorry for saying that straight and I swear I’m saying it with best intentions!

Attached2Elijan, I think it comes down to “because we give up we don't deserve another child”.

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

Well, what can I say, I guess we all are very different and therefore, we function differently too. Whatever would have helped me in a situation and mood like that was met almost as an offend by you guys.
I didn’t think about it and that was my mistake. Unfortunately, no one interpreted my words the only way I meant them, words of support, share of my own experience, words that I hoped would cheer up and bring hope. <snip> I did have a lot of rough days due to my infertility problems. But it is also true that my husband’s and my attitude “We will do what we have to do and we will try everything we can try to conceive and if nothing works we are going to have kids this way or another (meaning adoption)” did help ALOT and I honestly do not remember myself being too angry, too frustrated or too miserable. I have also never felt guilty for being infertile and this was probably also crucially important to remain in more or less good spirit.

I don't see an apology in there anywhere. I see a few back-handed apologies: "Well, I'm sorry you misunderstood me, but here's why I'm right."

[OTMomma]

Thankyou all for the support. And thanks Adina for your post, because although you were responding to Yulia, you validated all my feelings. I do suspect that with Engilsh as a second language, that my OP may not have translated well for Yulia, as strong emotions sometimes don't. And I envy Yulia that she has a dh who was with her every step of the way, I'm sure that did help her a lot.

For me, I feel like my dh and I have never been on the same page with ttc this child. First I wanted it much more, and he just went along, then months later I suggested we just wait until he was ready, instead he suddenly put lots of energy into trying, while I was wondering if we were ready. Months passed, and I started to feel like looking into adoption- he says he's not ready for that yet- and I respect that, we've agreed to revisit that discussion in a year. Then dh wanted to push forward with medical assistance, but I have a lot of apprehension about that. I have had blood work done and an exam, which found nothing wrong, excpet for slightly low progesterone. And this subject has become so painful in our home, that I really can't discuss it with dh. Not to say he wouldn't talk to me about it, but that it doesn't help. So I wait. I wait to see if we will concieve naturally. I wait to see if I will become ready to deal with further medical intervention or if a year will pass and we'll adopt. Or if dh and I will ever reconnect the way we used to.
BTW- we've been trying for 18 months now.
to all of you who know how I feel.

Laura