Hello, I'm pretty new to these forums but since vaccination is a topic that has interested me for a long time now, I've spent quite a bit of time already reading over the posts in this forum. So I'd like to first off thank those of you who take the time to help others and provide so much information (both pros and cons). I am not a mom yet, but we're hoping to ttc this summer, and I think this is something I want to learn as much as I can about before making any decisions. Sorry in advance if this post ends up long, I think I'm writing it as much to get my own thoughts down on paper as I am to get a few questions answered.
Let me start off by saying that I'm a pretty open-minded person, and I rarely fall prey to scare tactics. I'm very scientific, and always do lots of reading (I read every medication insert that comes with any drug I'm prescribed), read scientific studies, read everything about both sides, etc. I've been told I over-analyze everything, from both sides, of any argument. However, it never occurred to me not to trust vaccines. I remember a long time ago hearing about parents who didn't vaccinate their kids and immediately assuming the worst (about the parents). I didn't really think about it again. One year, we were offered flu shots at work. Now, I'd never had the flu before, but I have (very mild) asthma, and they were free, so I thought why not. I went and got it. I felt terrible for 3 or 4 days afterwards, but was told it was normal. Later on that year I got the flu for the first time. The same thing happened the next year. I still wasn't connecting the vaccine to anything though.
Funnily enough, my interest in vaccines started with my dog. I had recently switched her to a raw food diet because she was not doing at all well on processed foods, and was amazed at how much better she did, with liver/kidney problems basically disappearing completely. On a raw food list I was on, someone happened to mention minimal vaccinating and provided a link to some info on animal vaccinations and a pet vax-free e-mail list. I was intrigued. I worked at a vet clinic for 4 years, and the only cases of parvo I had ever seen were dogs that had been vaccinated for it. I always thought it was a good thing they were immunized or it would be worse! (Now I know better of course.) Reading the list, I read some very convincing things, and did a lot of research. One thing in particular stuck out at me. There was a lady on the list who bred dogs, and had decided to raise a completely vax-free litter. She had a previous litter, slightly older, who had been fully vaccinated, and she had both litters in the house with her. Somehow one of the dogs came in contact with parvo. She says that every single dog in her vaxed litter contracted it, most of them died.
In her unvaxed litter, 2 of the puppies contracted it, neither was very sick for more than a couple of days, and they were fine. Both litters were also kept with their mom as long as possible, and the dams were fed high quality raw diets.
The reason I bring this up is because one of the things that is said frequently on the dog vax lists is that puppies get a lot of their immunity from their mom when they nurse. Some on the list say as long as puppy is still nursing, he won't need shots. Others say the immunity they get from nursing should last their whole lives and that titers done years after an unvaxed puppy has been weaned often show high immunity still. I'm wondering if anyone here has heard anything similar for humans? Is this one of the reasons people who choose to delay vaccines wait until age 2, as that is when many extended bf'ers tend to start weaning or have weaned? Or is an age based on child development?
Moving on, I decided my dog would never get another vaccination again. She has a neurological/balance problem, that became noticeable after her first vet visit. Her breeder assumed she just hadn't noticed it previous to that, I strongly believe vaccinations caused it. Especially since the first (and only) time I did get her vaccinated, her balance got much worse for months afterward (again something I at first attributed to nerves from the vet visit, and then just thought must be coincidence). Her balance has slowly been improving, though it has improved in leaps and bounds since I switched her food, and there's no way I will compromise her health again.
It still hadn't occurred to me that humans may not need these shots either. For some reason I thought dog immunity and human immunity must be vastly different. Dogs can fight off these diseases if they're fed good food and are healthy, us humans can't though! (Yes, again I know I was wrong about that now.) I didn't start looking into human vaccines until someone on the dog vax list commented her own kids weren't vaccinated either, and had linked several articles/studies on human vaccinations. I thought she must be some sort of fanatic or something, and went on a search to do my own research, and was shocked at what I found. I seem to remember reading that some of the vaccine manufacturers will not vaccinate their own grandchildren (I can't find that anymore now though, anyone know if this is true?), and yet recommend the vaccinations to other children.
I have to admit, despite all this, the thought of not vaccinating does kind of scare me. However, the thought of vaccinating scares me more. I could deliberately inject known poisons into my babies, or I can help them develop strong immune systems and hope if the worst were to happen, they will be able to fight it off themselves, coming out even stronger on the other side. Meningitis does kind of scare me. My cousin (who was fully vaccinated) contracted meningitis and is now profoundly deaf. The fact that she was vaccinated though tells me that the vaccines aren't as effective as we are told. I sometimes wonder if she would have been able to fight it off easier if her little body hadn't also been dealing with all the effects from vaccines at the same time. Does anyone have any good sites on meningitis (the disease itself, how common it is, etc.) and/or the vaccine for it? At this point, unless I see compelling evidence otherwise that isn't just scare-mongering, I won't be vaccinating, but I do like to see any information I can get my hands on. (I got enough scare-mongering from my vet, who was trying to convince me my dog, who wasn't even overdue on shots at that point, was already suffering from an unknown infectious disease because I wouldn't vaccinate her. I haven't been back there since, and she has still shown no symptoms whatsoever of this infectious disease she's apparently carrying around.)
Anyway, this turned out way longer than I expected. Thank you to anyone who made it this far, like I said earlier, I think part of me just felt a need to get some of my thoughts out in a place where I wouldn't immediately be thought of as nuts.
Oh, and I haven't had another flu shot, and haven't ever developed the flu again, but I think I got it a total of 4 times in the 2 years I did have it. Never again for me. I'm curious, do any mothers here who as a rule don't vaccinate, or selectively vaccinate, vaccinate their children with the flu shot if their children have asthma?
One last question, anyone know about the vaccine laws in Canada? My understanding is that it's considered a constitutional-right to decide if you want to be vaccinated or not, and we can't be forced except in certain cases, like epidemics. So if we decided not to home school I don't think we'd have a problem getting an exemption. Does this sound right to anyone who might know the laws here? I always wonder though, if vaccines are so effective, why people who do vaccinate would even worry about people who aren't vaccinated...
I can only hope I can repair the damage that has already been done to me due to vaccines, and start fresh with my little ones when they come. I'll probably mostly silently hang out in this part of the board, absorb everything, try and get as much info as I can, and probably occasionally post some questions. I promise not to post anything this long again though.
Let me start off by saying that I'm a pretty open-minded person, and I rarely fall prey to scare tactics. I'm very scientific, and always do lots of reading (I read every medication insert that comes with any drug I'm prescribed), read scientific studies, read everything about both sides, etc. I've been told I over-analyze everything, from both sides, of any argument. However, it never occurred to me not to trust vaccines. I remember a long time ago hearing about parents who didn't vaccinate their kids and immediately assuming the worst (about the parents). I didn't really think about it again. One year, we were offered flu shots at work. Now, I'd never had the flu before, but I have (very mild) asthma, and they were free, so I thought why not. I went and got it. I felt terrible for 3 or 4 days afterwards, but was told it was normal. Later on that year I got the flu for the first time. The same thing happened the next year. I still wasn't connecting the vaccine to anything though.
Funnily enough, my interest in vaccines started with my dog. I had recently switched her to a raw food diet because she was not doing at all well on processed foods, and was amazed at how much better she did, with liver/kidney problems basically disappearing completely. On a raw food list I was on, someone happened to mention minimal vaccinating and provided a link to some info on animal vaccinations and a pet vax-free e-mail list. I was intrigued. I worked at a vet clinic for 4 years, and the only cases of parvo I had ever seen were dogs that had been vaccinated for it. I always thought it was a good thing they were immunized or it would be worse! (Now I know better of course.) Reading the list, I read some very convincing things, and did a lot of research. One thing in particular stuck out at me. There was a lady on the list who bred dogs, and had decided to raise a completely vax-free litter. She had a previous litter, slightly older, who had been fully vaccinated, and she had both litters in the house with her. Somehow one of the dogs came in contact with parvo. She says that every single dog in her vaxed litter contracted it, most of them died.
In her unvaxed litter, 2 of the puppies contracted it, neither was very sick for more than a couple of days, and they were fine. Both litters were also kept with their mom as long as possible, and the dams were fed high quality raw diets.The reason I bring this up is because one of the things that is said frequently on the dog vax lists is that puppies get a lot of their immunity from their mom when they nurse. Some on the list say as long as puppy is still nursing, he won't need shots. Others say the immunity they get from nursing should last their whole lives and that titers done years after an unvaxed puppy has been weaned often show high immunity still. I'm wondering if anyone here has heard anything similar for humans? Is this one of the reasons people who choose to delay vaccines wait until age 2, as that is when many extended bf'ers tend to start weaning or have weaned? Or is an age based on child development?
Moving on, I decided my dog would never get another vaccination again. She has a neurological/balance problem, that became noticeable after her first vet visit. Her breeder assumed she just hadn't noticed it previous to that, I strongly believe vaccinations caused it. Especially since the first (and only) time I did get her vaccinated, her balance got much worse for months afterward (again something I at first attributed to nerves from the vet visit, and then just thought must be coincidence). Her balance has slowly been improving, though it has improved in leaps and bounds since I switched her food, and there's no way I will compromise her health again.
It still hadn't occurred to me that humans may not need these shots either. For some reason I thought dog immunity and human immunity must be vastly different. Dogs can fight off these diseases if they're fed good food and are healthy, us humans can't though! (Yes, again I know I was wrong about that now.) I didn't start looking into human vaccines until someone on the dog vax list commented her own kids weren't vaccinated either, and had linked several articles/studies on human vaccinations. I thought she must be some sort of fanatic or something, and went on a search to do my own research, and was shocked at what I found. I seem to remember reading that some of the vaccine manufacturers will not vaccinate their own grandchildren (I can't find that anymore now though, anyone know if this is true?), and yet recommend the vaccinations to other children.
I have to admit, despite all this, the thought of not vaccinating does kind of scare me. However, the thought of vaccinating scares me more. I could deliberately inject known poisons into my babies, or I can help them develop strong immune systems and hope if the worst were to happen, they will be able to fight it off themselves, coming out even stronger on the other side. Meningitis does kind of scare me. My cousin (who was fully vaccinated) contracted meningitis and is now profoundly deaf. The fact that she was vaccinated though tells me that the vaccines aren't as effective as we are told. I sometimes wonder if she would have been able to fight it off easier if her little body hadn't also been dealing with all the effects from vaccines at the same time. Does anyone have any good sites on meningitis (the disease itself, how common it is, etc.) and/or the vaccine for it? At this point, unless I see compelling evidence otherwise that isn't just scare-mongering, I won't be vaccinating, but I do like to see any information I can get my hands on. (I got enough scare-mongering from my vet, who was trying to convince me my dog, who wasn't even overdue on shots at that point, was already suffering from an unknown infectious disease because I wouldn't vaccinate her. I haven't been back there since, and she has still shown no symptoms whatsoever of this infectious disease she's apparently carrying around.)
Anyway, this turned out way longer than I expected. Thank you to anyone who made it this far, like I said earlier, I think part of me just felt a need to get some of my thoughts out in a place where I wouldn't immediately be thought of as nuts.
Oh, and I haven't had another flu shot, and haven't ever developed the flu again, but I think I got it a total of 4 times in the 2 years I did have it. Never again for me. I'm curious, do any mothers here who as a rule don't vaccinate, or selectively vaccinate, vaccinate their children with the flu shot if their children have asthma?One last question, anyone know about the vaccine laws in Canada? My understanding is that it's considered a constitutional-right to decide if you want to be vaccinated or not, and we can't be forced except in certain cases, like epidemics. So if we decided not to home school I don't think we'd have a problem getting an exemption. Does this sound right to anyone who might know the laws here? I always wonder though, if vaccines are so effective, why people who do vaccinate would even worry about people who aren't vaccinated...
I can only hope I can repair the damage that has already been done to me due to vaccines, and start fresh with my little ones when they come. I'll probably mostly silently hang out in this part of the board, absorb everything, try and get as much info as I can, and probably occasionally post some questions. I promise not to post anything this long again though.
:
. Instead we went to a re-enactment down in Virginia, and looked over the Mayflower replica....
The logic escapes me.
I did not know this. I am not sure if my aunt knows this or not, but I don't think I want to be the one to break it to her if not, since the damage has been done.
I notice a huge difference here from some of the other message boards I have been to in the past, where if the question of vaccines is brought up, the posters throw out sweeping generalizations (vaccines eradicated childhood diseases, for instance), claim anyone who doesn't vaccinate is a lunatic who is endangering the whole world, and provide no evidence or studies to back up what they say. (However, I am most definitely not saying the people here who are pro-vax do this too, it seems that people on both sides of the argument seem to be more thoughtful for the most part.)
: My fiance and I have started researching the diseases together. It's funny how scary they try to make them sound. I'm starting to feel more confident already.
interesting how that works 
our dog only got one set of shots when she was spayed. Then we found out about them... she's also on the BARF diet 
)
only to find out he still vacc's his kids! 
