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Woman kills sons and....  

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
they use this to show how "sickly bonded" she was to them? I dont see how its relevant at all


Miller, a forensic psychiatrist, said Demeniuk, who breastfed her sons for 2 1/2 years, was "pathologically sickly bonded" to them. She killed them, Miller said, so they wouldn't have to live in what she saw as a "terrifying" world.

http://www.staugustine.com/stories/0..._3576832.shtml

you have to register to read it. i used username Mothering, password forums, or maybe its the other way around
post #2 of 21
My heart breaks for everyone involved in that sad sad situation I agree that there really was no reason to say that she breastfed her children until they were 2 1/2 unless the writer's intention was to show that she loved her children but was very very sick. I don't know if that is how the majority of readers will interpret it though. And to mention that and then say her drug and alcohol use is not relevant...weird. Poor babies.
post #3 of 21
Boy, I still can't get over Andrea Yates's story who drowned her 5 children in a bathtub
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou.../andrea_yates/
and here is another horrible story of a nut mom . How a woman (any woman, even a crazy one) can possibly do something like that?!???!
post #4 of 21
double post, sorry
post #5 of 21
Just a sad sad thing
post #6 of 21
Great, I love how EN is now "sickly bonding" with your child. Very sad story about the children.
post #7 of 21
Well, thankfully it wasn't mentioned until more than halfway into the article but I don't see where it has ANY relevance whatsoever. If it did, then I would also be curious to know how old they learned to use the potty and at what age did they start solids. :
post #8 of 21
Hmm, they were 4 years old and she only BF them for 2.5 years? Maybe the "problem" was that she couldn't handle the boys because they were prematurely weaned?

Seriously, it's a sad situation all around, and ludicrous to think that how long she nursed them was in any way relevant.
post #9 of 21
I sent the following email to the author of the article (richard.prior@staugustinerecord.com ) and to the editor of the paper (editor@staugustinerecord.com ) . Maybe some of you can do it more eloquently, but this was my reaction:

Why did you insert a completely irrelevant factoid about extended
breastfeeding into this article?

"Miller, a forensic psychiatrist, said Demeniuk, who breastfed her
sons for 2 1/2 years, was "pathologically sickly bonded" to them."

Worldwide, children are weaned anytime between 2 and 4 years, with
many mothers continuing to nurse their children even longer.

The World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for at LEAST 2 years.

Besides, this woman had NOT been nursing her kids for I assume at
least 18 months. To pull one facet of her parenting from many, many
months ago and insert it into this sentence about her "sick"ness is
very irresponsible.

I am currently nursing both my nearly-3-year-old and my 3-month-old.
I take offense at your obvious implication that breastfeeding is in
any way "sick." Its emotional and nutritional benefits are well
established, and it is a shame that you are surreptitiously casting a
negative shadow on breastfeeding in a culture that already has an
abysmal breastfeeding rate.

Sincerely,
post #10 of 21
I agree that the author of this piece was including this information because (s)he somehow considered it relevant to how "pathologically" bonded she was to her sons. But I did want to point out one thing no one has mentioned: this reporter almost certainly got that information from the forensic psychiatrist. That means the psychiatrist is the one who was saying it was pathological and sick. And it's pretty freakin scary that people who decide whether or not you're a criminal and whether or not you're sane can use something like extended nursing to build a case against you. Very scary.
post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R
Boy, I still can't get over Andrea Yates's story who drowned her 5 children in a bathtub
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou.../andrea_yates/
and here is another horrible story of a nut mom . How a woman (any woman, even a crazy one) can possibly do something like that?!???!
I am hoping that in your anger you can try to find some compassion for a a mom, Yes a sick- as in : Ill mom who loved her children just as much as anyone. When It comes to what happens in a persons brain and body with mental illness No-one can really know. I sincerely hope when people wonder about these situations they remember it was a MOM . If she really wanted to simply be rid of the kids she could leave, right? But see, when a mom is soo terribly ill and her head says all kinds of things there isnt rational thinking that says "whoa, no lets not do THis."

What needs to be said and shown over and over again so people can WAKE UP and see their neighbors, sisters, wives, aunts, clearly is that Mothering is a tough tough thing and the hormonal upheaval and illnesses that make themselves known at this time need to be checked and rechecked, again and again.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubylyu
I sent the following email to the author of the article (richard.prior@staugustinerecord.com ) and to the editor of the paper (editor@staugustinerecord.com ) . Maybe some of you can do it more eloquently, but this was my reaction:

Why did you insert a completely irrelevant factoid about extended
breastfeeding into this article?

"Miller, a forensic psychiatrist, said Demeniuk, who breastfed her
sons for 2 1/2 years, was "pathologically sickly bonded" to them."

Worldwide, children are weaned anytime between 2 and 4 years, with
many mothers continuing to nurse their children even longer.

The World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for at LEAST 2 years.

Besides, this woman had NOT been nursing her kids for I assume at
least 18 months. To pull one facet of her parenting from many, many
months ago and insert it into this sentence about her "sick"ness is
very irresponsible.

I am currently nursing both my nearly-3-year-old and my 3-month-old.
I take offense at your obvious implication that breastfeeding is in
any way "sick." Its emotional and nutritional benefits are well
established, and it is a shame that you are surreptitiously casting a
negative shadow on breastfeeding in a culture that already has an
abysmal breastfeeding rate.

Sincerely,
I think you are quite eleoquent for sure!------ Now, If only you could be in this persons FACE and verbalizing it!
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraess
I am hoping that in your anger you can try to find some compassion for a a mom, Yes a sick- as in : Ill mom who loved her children just as much as anyone. When It comes to what happens in a persons brain and body with mental illness No-one can really know. I sincerely hope when people wonder about these situations they remember it was a MOM . If she really wanted to simply be rid of the kids she could leave, right? But see, when a mom is soo terribly ill and her head says all kinds of things there isnt rational thinking that says "whoa, no lets not do THis."

What needs to be said and shown over and over again so people can WAKE UP and see their neighbors, sisters, wives, aunts, clearly is that Mothering is a tough tough thing and the hormonal upheaval and illnesses that make themselves known at this time need to be checked and rechecked, again and again.
ITA! Unfortunately, the attitude displayed in the post lauraess is responding to actually DISCOURAGES sick women from seeking help. Yulia_R, I have to say that your words are really not nice. You called a severely mentally ill woman a "nut mom". Did you really think that was a kind thing to say about a mentally ill person?

Yulia_R, it seems that you know very little (I'd venture to guess it's more like nothing at all) about postpartum mental illness. Postpartum mental illness can be classified as PPD, PPP or PPD-OCD. PPD is the one we all know about - the depression and lack of motivation many women go through after their babies are born. PPD-OCD is less common and much less discussed.

In a case of PPD-OCD, a mother will have constant thoughts about killing her baby. I mean CONSTANT. (But mothers w/PPD-OCD never actually do it.) I had PPD-OCD and I couldn't stop thinking that I was going to hurt my child. I didn't *want* to hurt my baby! I loved her with all of my heart and couldn't understand what was happening to me. I finally decided that, in order to protect my baby from myself, I would probably have to kill myself. Because of the attitudes of people such as yourself, Yulia_R, I was afraid to tell anyone. I was afraid everyone would think I was a horrible mother and that my baby would be taken from me. Luckily, I decided that it was a chance I had to take. And fortunately my husband was understanding. I got help and was better within a few weeks. I really just needed to TELL someone. If everyone were as unsympathetic as you sounded in that post, I probably would have decided to kill myself instead.

Postpartum psychosis, which is what Andrea Yates had, is the worst of all. Not only do these women have bizarre thoughts of killing their babies - they actually believe these thoughts are messages from their creator. They believe that killing their children is the RIGHT thing to do. And part of PPP is paranoia, so although they believe it is the right thing to do, their paranoia prevents them from telling anyone about it. And when they are rational enough to realize they have a problem, they're so afraid of being labeled "nut moms" and having their children taken away that they can't seek help. From there, it all spirals downward, until someone gets hurt. These women didn't want to hurt their children.

I'm sad that in this day and age, our society still has so little compassion for the mentally ill that we make them fearful of seeking help. It is society's fault when a woman becomes so unstable because of mental illness that she kills her children. If more women were made aware that this is a possibility, it's only an illness and nothing to be ashamed of, that there is help and treatment available, that she is NOT a "nut" and she is still a good mother, then maybe more women would get HELP before it was too late. But as long as we're going to treat them like the'yre monsters, this kind of thing will never end.
post #14 of 21
I agree. I had ppd with my kids and OCD. I had obsessive thoughts of doing odd harmful things to my oldest for a long time. I never acted but I was scared that if someone knew that obsessive ideas of harming him that ran through my head they would have him taken away from me. I love my kids and never want any harm to come to any of them, but these thoughts just would not stop. I think they were more a fear, but they still would not quit. For the first 6 years of his life the only time I dreamed about him, it was of harm coming to him. THen when I was pg with #2 I had dreams of harm coming to her before she was even born. I had no idea then that it was a combination of disorders. WHile mine was more a fear of something happening than a desire, I can understand where alot of these people come from. Sadly enough, I had even been at a point recently in my depression(now a non ppd, chronic depression) that I understand the thoughts of people who kill thier families AND themselves.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummeting
But I did want to point out one thing no one has mentioned: this reporter almost certainly got that information from the forensic psychiatrist. That means the psychiatrist is the one who was saying it was pathological and sick. And it's pretty freakin scary that people who decide whether or not you're a criminal and whether or not you're sane can use something like extended nursing to build a case against you. Very scary.
I have been wondering for a while what the psychiatrists in our culture think of extended breastfeeding. I'm guessing I don't want to know.

It's sad - I think it's entirely possible that breastfeeding her children for as long as she did helped her maintain her balance or a little while, and then when she stopped maybe things got worse and worse. Entirely unproven hypothesis, I know, but I think it has some merit.

One thing I don't get... Any mother who kills her children (especially when she doesn't benefit from it in any way!) is OBVIOUSLY mentally ill in some way and needs treatment. I really don't get how anyone could argue (a la Andrea Yates) that she wasn't ill.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R
Boy, I still can't get over Andrea Yates's story who drowned her 5 children in a bathtub
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou.../andrea_yates/
and here is another horrible story of a nut mom . How a woman (any woman, even a crazy one) can possibly do something like that?!???!


While that was a horrid tragedy, your post comes off, intended or not, as extremely insensetive.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R
Boy, I still can't get over Andrea Yates's story who drowned her 5 children in a bathtub
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou.../andrea_yates/
and here is another horrible story of a nut mom . How a woman (any woman, even a crazy one) can possibly do something like that?!???!
Your post smacks of anyone who has not suffered through something as debilitating as PPD. And while I never would wish such pain on anyone; I do urge you to educate yourself on the topic - - if for nothing else than to learn compassion for other mothers. It's attitudes like yours that still hold mental illness like PPD under such stigma and discourages women, like Andrea Yates, from seeking the help they so need and deserve.
post #18 of 21
I tried to sign in with the username and password you specified but it tells me "Account has been deactivated". Apparently you have not yet validated your email address (I guess it sends you an email and you have to click on a link to validate?) so it hasn't activated the account.
post #19 of 21
Crime library
Quote:
As far as Hugi quickly ascertained, the fetus of something evil had taken form in the embryonic blackness of that rural roadway in Lane County.
When I read something like this, it makes me wonder if the writer has some subconscious dislike for women, and perhaps is not the best judge of these mothers who have killed their children.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
TechnoGranola-It didn't ask for a password, but maybe that is just needed for purchasing the stories, not reading the excerpts.
Hmmmm...when I click on the link the OP posted, I get a register or login screen. I type in the username and password she listed in her post and it tells me the account isn't activated yet (and then I can continue on to see the email address where they are expecting a response from).
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