Curing Cavities with Nutrition - Page 42

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia 

Ah, thank you! And you like Pascalite?

Of course

We take FCLO as much for the vit A & DHA as for the D. Are you taking another form of A? Liver? I've thought of just getting our intake of A from liver and taking a D supp (+ K2) to save money, but we're still taking FCLO because I think it helps with my mood in the winter. Just be careful that you're getting A & K2 with your D - they're important to balance.

I'm pretty lax with the D drops in the summer because we spend most days out in the full sun for 3-5 hours in bathing suits with zero sun block.

I eat liver a few times a month and eat beef everyday, and tons of greens and drink nettles infusions every day. I also eat lots of sweet potatoes and carrots although those forms of A need to convert. I do think I am good though.
I was taking K2 and tried 2 different forms and felt horrible with it and my teeth got worse. I so want it to work as I hear such good about it. I think I will try it again someday... I am just not sold on the whole K2 thing as my dd developed cavities when eating tons of kerry gold ghee every day. Or I just don't think it is the key to healing as it didn't prevent it for her at age 2.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by mombh 

just chiming in here that we have had good results with clay. I have personally healed a tooth by packing it with clay every night and I have since started brushing  ds  (2 1/2)  before bedtime. I have been  trying to actually paste 2 of his molars ( they have the most decay) but with a squirming toddler it is not really working. I also give him the pasicalite internally. I also give him xylitol and calc phos.

Anyone have any ideas as to why with such decay he does not seem to be in pain at all?

Anyone know about acidic being condusive to decay and alkaline, not?

Can you explain how you packed your tooth? Thanks!

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Koalamom 


I eat liver a few times a month and eat beef everyday, and tons of greens and drink nettles infusions every day. I also eat lots of sweet potatoes and carrots although those forms of A need to convert. I do think I am good though.
I was taking K2 and tried 2 different forms and felt horrible with it and my teeth got worse. I so want it to work as I hear such good about it. I think I will try it again someday... I am just not sold on the whole K2 thing as my dd developed cavities when eating tons of kerry gold ghee every day. Or I just don't think it is the key to healing as it didn't prevent it for her at age 2.

We had a similar experience with the supp'd K2 -- even in careful combo with lots of A and D, it made this weird scum show up on both my kid's teeth every time I gave any significant amount. My older son can't take FCLO because of bleeding issues, so we're always looking for alternatives. I tried the supplemental K2 in combo with liver and D drops for my older son, as well as in combo with FCLO for my younger son, and it had the same effect on both of them.

[mombh]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia 

Can you explain how you packed your tooth? Thanks!

After  brushing before bed I take the paste ( clay mixed with a little water) and paste it on the gum around the tooth and in between the 2 teeth as much as I can and then just went to sleep with it. after about the 3rd day I could eat and drink hot foods again without the sensitivity and the pain was gone.

Interesting about the supp' k2, I also did not see the results I have heard about.

How about butter oil ? anyone have good experience with that?

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by mbravebird 

We had a similar experience with the supp'd K2 -- even in careful combo with lots of A and D, it made this weird scum show up on both my kid's teeth every time I gave any significant amount. My older son can't take FCLO because of bleeding issues, so we're always looking for alternatives. I tried the supplemental K2 in combo with liver and D drops for my older son, as well as in combo with FCLO for my younger son, and it had the same effect on both of them.

The scum!!! Yes! We experienced that too. My dd developed a start of a new cavity even when on K2 (went away after we stopped k2 and upped cell salts) , dh broke a tooth, and me and kiddos got horrible buildup scum. Then at the dentist, my teeth were worse than ever. I packed the K2 far away in a tote, not ready to try it again.

We tried butter oil and since we are allergic to dairy, it made things worse for us.

I pack clay around dd's teeth when she was little and had the 3 cavities. She loved it and helped. We just put some in the palm of my hand she licked her finger so it was wet and then stuck it in the clay and then to teeth. Quick and easy.

[mombh]

Iam going to stop the k-2 supp and see what happens.......This seems to run contrary to everything I have read but since some of you are experiencing the same thing, at least I know I am not imagining it.

Is this because it is a supplement and maybe disrupts the balance of  A D K2, or absorbed differently or maybe their bodies are not able to absorb it for some reason??

It does not make sense to me, but we have to  continue to try and find answers and solutions.

Do any of you give your lo nettle infusion  for the greens, minerals, even vitamin A ?   I have been giving my youngest, adding it to herbal flavored tea and freezing or making ice tea, since he will not drink any green smoothies/juice and does not yet eat much greens.

[meandk0610]

how do you give him the clay internally? do you know if bentonite clay would be ok? (we already have it and i can't afford to buy another right now)
 

Originally Posted by mombh 

just chiming in here that we have had good results with clay. I have personally healed a tooth by packing it with clay every night and I have since started brushing  ds  (2 1/2)  before bedtime. I have been  trying to actually paste 2 of his molars ( they have the most decay) but with a squirming toddler it is not really working. I also give him the pasicalite internally. I also give him xylitol and calc phos.

Anyone have any ideas as to why with such decay he does not seem to be in pain at all?

Anyone know about acidic being condusive to decay and alkaline, not?

[Koalamom]

I give my kids nettles infusions all the time. They absolutely love it and I don't even sweeten it. And actually, if I am drinking it, my kids fight over who get a sip first.

[Metasequoia]

So interesting about the K2. We haven't noticed any "scum," but this makes me think twice. I really want to ditch the K2 supp. and add butter oil - or do the Royal Blend instead since it's a food.

The kids had their dentist appts yesterday & poor Dd2 had 4 spots they were "watching" from last time (6 months ago) & they said that one spot had made it through (the enamel?) and needed to be filled. I made the appt for next Friday, but I don't plan on keeping it. It's between her molars - do you think packing it with clay might work? I wonder if it would get in there okay.

Ds has a few dark spots on the insides of his upper teeth. Where can I get one of those metal probes to see if they're sticky or hard? The dentist said he was fine, which makes me think that they're just remineralized decay.

What do you guys think about something like the Hydrofloss? It's recommended in Cure Tooth Decay & I've seen it recommended by holistic dentists who are in the same line of thinking as Ramiel Nagel. We've always been flossers but after reading Cure Tooth Decay, I'm not sure we should be doing it. I feel like we shouldn't have to go to these lengths! I mean, biologically, it seems wrong that we need to spend SO much time and go to such lengths for healthy teeth/gums. If we have gotten to the place of excellent nutrition (taking minerals to make up for what's no longer there in the soil), then shouldn't our teeth/gums eventually be resilient to decay? Anyway, the Hydrofloss is over $100, so I don't want to waste money, but it's supposed to be a better option than flossing and I figure, if it heals gum tissue, allowing it to reseal along the teeth, maybe it won't always be needed.

In other oral news, I spoke with Dr. Gerald Smith's office yesterday about Dd1's bite and braces (she's had them for a month now.) It's $7500 a YEAR for the ALF appliance, which includes craniosacral checks/adjustments every 6 weeks and adjustments to the appliance. This would address her entire cranial structure as opposed to just moving teeth around like in traditional orthodontics. Yikes.

[laneysprout]

The backstory is that my 14 month old DS had a prenatal stroke which may or may not have disrupted the process of tooth formation in utero.  When he was 8 mos. old he was hospitalized twice for upper respiratory infection/bronchiolitis/ear infection and received (after the second hospitalization) deep suctioning, albuterol through a nebulizer and an antibiotic.  Around this time his first right front tooth came in and I thought it looked a little transparent.  As it continued to come in it looked like a whiter patch had formed in the center of the tooth, almost to the edges.  Now, at 14 mos. it is discolored in several places and there appear to be small craters forming on the surface of the tooth.  He is a mouth breather and chronically congested.  He had a colic for 4 months and now I'm wondering if gluten might be the culprit since I remember reading somewhere that a gluten intolerance can cause weakened enamel.

I am putting off taking him to the dentist because I would like to try to treat it nutritionally at this point.  I ordered the butter oil/FCLO blend from Green Pastures and he gets raw milk, pastured butter, chicken, eggs, and bone broths.  We aren't a big meat eating family, but I'm not opposed to adding that in.  What vegetables can help?  Which ones should he avoid?  Should I avoid gluten altogether?  Ideally, I would like to be able to prepare food for him that the rest of us can also eat to avoid it spoiling before he can eat it all.  My husband has a history of high cholesterol and heart disease and I am a bit nervous about him eating too much of a TF diet, which probably indicates some of my ignorance on this topic.

Can someone give me specific menu ideas for trying to heal baby teeth?  What I'm really looking for is a sample daily meal plan, I guess.  I've read through the thread and am somewhat familiar with general TF principles, but I would like some feedback on food I can prepare for him other than bone broth, meat, and dairy because I'm running out of ideas.  I am heading back to work full time in a few weeks (I'm a college lecturer with a semi-flexible schedule, but he will be with his babysitter for lunch and snacks four times a week) and I need idea for things I can prepare the night before/that morning for him to eat to ensure he's getting enough of everything he needs.  Ideas on breakfast, snacks, babysitter-friendly lunches, and dinners would be very much appreciated.  I'm thinking I'll try to post a picture of his tooth soon, too, to get some feedback on what you all think.

Thanks in advance!

[gabbyraja]

I'm sorry you haven't received much of a response this past month. Check out the cell salts thread also, for minerals, http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1188755/tell-me-about-cell-salts/1160#post_16680646 and Susun Weed's Youtube videos on nettle infusions. Nettle infusions are a fantastic source of minerals.  http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=susun+weed+nettle&aq=5&oq=susun+weed

I can't really think of specific menu ideas since my kids are allergic to nearly everything (well, I guess it just feels like it). But, thankfully, it seems gluten may not be one of our allergens. Won't know for sure for another month when yet another round of tests comes back. Anyway, a good place to start for basics on TF is "Real Food, what to eat and why", by Nina Planck. Then if you want more reading check out her resources, or the TFs thread here on MDC. You'll learn that the healthy fats in TFs do NOT trouble heart disease and, in fact, can help reverse it. I read an article on Mercola the other day that worded it this way "We now believe heart disease is caused by a deficiency of cholesterol." Imagine when that hits the mainstream media (years from now)... More great reading is David Wolfe's books on superfoods, and Superimmunity for Kids by Leo Galland.

Another great resource for the importance of vitamins (not synthetic vitamin supplements, but vitamins from food) is Linus Pauling. Now dead, he earned 48 phds and 2 unshared nobel prizes. Freaking genius, but a bit more difficult read for the layman.

GL! 

[Awaken]

sigh...back again.  After 1/2 his tooth turned brown and fell out, (following 5 cavities in one dental visit), my son now has a black line on the edges of the filling that was just done 1-2 months ago.  This is while we're working hard to improve his nutrition, doing FCLO, raw/pastured butter, eggs, raw yogurt, homeopathics (calc phos), and using Toothsoap.  So depressing after all this work and money spent.  I don't know what to try next- I don't want to keep spending money on all the supplements if it's not going to help, yet I'm afraid not to do it all and have the decay get even worse.   I just don't understand this- no one else in our family has teeth like this, he is incredibly healthy in every other way, and breastfed thru preschool age!

What is the next best thing to FCLO?  The kids truly hate it, make a huge fuss when it's time to take it, and take 1/2 hr or more to choke it down, so we are only getting to do it about 1-2x a week. It doesn't matter what I mix it with, and they won't take it off a spoon or quickly with a chaser.  They will happily take other forms of Vit D or EFA's and are actually begging me to get them again- is it worthwhile to buy carlson's or nordic naturals, even if they're not fermented?  I don't want to waste my money on expensive supplements if they're not the correct form to do any good.

Or should we forget the Vit D/A/oil suppls and just focus on diet?  He won't eat any vegetables, but will do eggs, raw dairy, pastured/grass fed meats.

Still have to look into cell salts- haven't yet gotten to look up whether homeopathic calc phos is something different from cell salts!

Has anyone heard of or tried painting the mouth with betadine to kill the cavity-causing bacteria?  Or a peroxide/water rinse after brushing?  Both have been suggested to me by healthcare providers.

Metasequoia:  "I feel like we shouldn't have to go to these lengths! I mean, biologically, it seems wrong that we need to spend SO much time and go to such lengths for healthy teeth/gums. If we have gotten to the place of excellent nutrition (taking minerals to make up for what's no longer there in the soil), then shouldn't our teeth/gums eventually be resilient to decay?"

YES!  My thoughts exactly!  It shouldn't be THIS difficult, complicated, and expensive just to maintain biologically normal teeth, once our diets are corrected and providing the right nutrients.

[gabbyraja]

Awaken, I'm not sure how familiar you are with TFs, but there are some things that rob the body of nutrients, particularly calcium. Off the top of my head:

1. Phytates. These live in the outer covering of grains, seeds, nuts and beans. Soaking them breaks down the phytates and makes them nutritious. If your ds is eating anything processed, or anything unsoaked, that could be part of your problem. There was a study using 3 groupd of rats. One got no food and starved to death. One was given only cereal (unsoaked grains). The third was given only the cardboard box that the cereal came in. The cardboard group survived the longest. The starvation group was second. The cereal group died first, by several days. Because at least the starved group was left the nutrients they had in their bodies when the experiment began. But the cereal group lost their stored nutrients, in addition to reeiving very few nutrients from the cereal.

2. Sugar. Your body requires calcium to process sugar out of your body. This is the truest cause of cavities. White flour turns to sugar in your body as surely as you'd eaten the equivalent measurement of sugar, so keep that in mind. If you truly believe that "sugar bugs" actually cause cavities, rather than the bacterial imbalance in the entire body being another symptom of internal disease, then go with the "balance of bacteria" solution, rather than the ANTIbiotic/bacteria solution. Don't kill all bacteria, good and bad, in the mouth. Balance the bacteria, instead. Introduce more good bacteria to the mouth. I know you mentioned raw yogurt, which is great, but step that up a bunch. Make water kefir "soda", water kefir mouth rinse, lacto-fermented pickles, or saurkraut, or fruit. Add yogurt and/or kefir to smoothies (as well as lots of other superfoods that you can hide in smoothies), or freeze the smoothies into "popsicles", paint probiotic powder in his mouth before bed, etc. keep the probiotics in his mouth as long as possible.

3. Phosphorous. Phosphorous is used to carbonate carbonated beverages. If he's getting soda, etc, this leeches calcium from his system.

All I can think of at the moment. Baby crying. HTH.
Edited by gabbyraja - 10/3/11 at 6:09pm

[Awaken]

Hi yes,  that is helpful :)  I am pretty familiar with TF's but am still learning :) 

He does not get any soda, and I do give him soaked grain hot cereal several times a week, but he does get other unsoaked though mostly whole grain snack-y type stuff, and bread for sandwiches, etc.  I could probably switch to sprouted grain bread.  He is a sugar fiend but obviously we seriously limit it and brush his teeth after.  Compared to the perfect, NT diet it's not good, but compared to the SAD he eats excellently!

Oh- and nettle is a great idea too. I personally use a lot of herbs and love to make nettle tea for myself.  I could see convincing them to drink that (likely w/ some raw honey) MUCH more easily than the FCLO! 

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by Awaken 

Hi yes,  that is helpful :)  I am pretty familiar with TF's but am still learning :) 

He does not get any soda, and I do give him soaked grain hot cereal several times a week, but he does get other unsoaked though mostly whole grain snack-y type stuff, and bread for sandwiches, etc.  I could probably switch to sprouted grain bread.  He is a sugar fiend but obviously we seriously limit it and brush his teeth after.  Compared to the perfect, NT diet it's not good, but compared to the SAD he eats excellently!

Oh- and nettle is a great idea too. I personally use a lot of herbs and love to make nettle tea for myself.  I could see convincing them to drink that (likely w/ some raw honey) MUCH more easily than the FCLO! 

Is your son able to swallow capsules? Can he learn?
The capsules that are sold are quite small, and if he is able, you can fill either size 0 or 00 for him. If you fill them yourself, you have to keep them in the fridge.

[gabbyraja]

Oh, I came back to update the post after the baby went back to sleep and the kids went to bed. Go back and read my expansions. Putting FCLO in small capsules is a great idea, too! But yes, nettle tea is so good for everyone! Definitely try it. My 10 yr old won't do it (though he always tries it again, just to be sure he still hates it), but the other kids LOVE it with honey and drink it a ton.

[Koalamom]

Awaken, I will answer more later.

I would focus way more on vitamin D3 than CLO. My kids get 2000 ius per day and I take 4000 ius.

And yes homeopathic calc phos is way different than cell salts. Switch right away if possible.

Have you looked into a gluten intolerance issue?

[gabbyraja]

http://www.foodrenegade.com/how-to-cure-tooth-decay-guest-post-by-ramiel-nagel/

[mbravebird]

Awaken, have you tried the new emulsified FCLO? The cinnamon kind tastes like candy. Seriously. I have the FCLO/Butter oil blend, cinnamon emulsified. It's helping my 2 year old. My older son, who had decay caused by meds he was taking, wasn't helped significantly by the CLO alternatives we tried with him (he can't take CLO due to a medical condition). So I'd say spring for the CLO/Butter oil blend in cinnamon emulsified, and give it another shot.

FCLO/BO blend, emulsified cinnamon:

http://www.building-health.com/blue-ice%C3%82%E2%84%A2-royal-blend-gel-81-oz-240-ml-p-66.html?zenid=eb73273c608caca8770c54a494598e75

It's sweetened with stevia.

[Awaken]

Wow, thanks so much for all the great suggestions!  Very good stuff.

Good news to report, well, somewhat good- my son's black tooth was the result of the filling being cracked, and not new tooth decay!  Whew!  So, not fun that we had to get the whole thing redone, but so happy that he doesn't have more decay, I was just beside myself at the thought, when I feel like we're doing everything "right"!

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 


Is your son able to swallow capsules? Can he learn?
The capsules that are sold are quite small, and if he is able, you can fill either size 0 or 00 for him. If you fill them yourself, you have to keep them in the fridge.

Ooooh, great idea, I never thought of that!  I do as a matter of fact have a )) capsule-maker (that I have to encapsulate placentas ;-)  and he doesn't take capsules, but I'm sure he could learn if it meant not taking that yukky oil!

Originally Posted by Koalamom 

Awaken, I will answer more later.
I would focus way more on vitamin D3 than CLO. My kids get 2000 ius per day and I take 4000 ius.
And yes homeopathic calc phos is way different than cell salts. Switch right away if possible.
Have you looked into a gluten intolerance issue?

Ok, thanks- I will look into cell salts asap! 

They are fine with taking D3 capsules, so if we just did that + other high vit A foods they'd be very happy!

Originally Posted by mbravebird 

Awaken, have you tried the new emulsified FCLO? The cinnamon kind tastes like candy. Seriously. I have the FCLO/Butter oil blend, cinnamon emulsified. It's helping my 2 year old. My older son, who had decay caused by meds he was taking, wasn't helped significantly by the CLO alternatives we tried with him (he can't take CLO due to a medical condition). So I'd say spring for the CLO/Butter oil blend in cinnamon emulsified, and give it another shot.

FCLO/BO blend, emulsified cinnamon:

http://www.building-health.com/blue-ice%C3%82%E2%84%A2-royal-blend-gel-81-oz-240-ml-p-66.html?zenid=eb73273c608caca8770c54a494598e75

It's sweetened with stevia.

Oh, YAY, so glad to hear this!!  We currently get the green pastures FCLO through our farm food delivery for a discount, I will have to see if that flavor is on the list!  If not, it still sounds worth it to buy directly via the website.  I just hated to buy another flavor, and find out it was just as bad and have them reject it.  So glad to hear it is actually better-tasting!