"MY child, MY choice!!!" - Page 2

[baybee]

I've been thinking while reading this thread about some of the things that I have had to confront in raising my daughters. When my oldest dd was about 4 she went to a little pre school and, one day, came home and began singing a little song in German. I was upset. . . I do not know one word of German (except for Liebframilch ) and I realized that my daughter knowing more than I did felt threatening and dangerous on some level. I just noticed my feelings and realized how totally nuts that was but it was very visceral. Same feelings when my youngest dd went to university. I do not have a univ education and it felt somehow risky and dangerous for this young woman to be growing past me. It's like an unspoken taboo. If I put it into words it would be "It's okay for my daughters to grow up and become women, BUT don't grow past Mom and Dad." It's something that I have really had to make an effort to be aware of and release my grip on my girls. I think when our kids criticize us it's another time when this fear of them growing past us comes up automatically and we react.

I think all the men who have been cut and then give their sons the gift of intact genitalia need to be deeply acknowledged for their awareness. The way us humans are preprogrammed is to make the same dumb mistakes generation after generation, so when someone breaks through that automaticity, I consider it a miracle.
Baybee

[Robin926]

Originally Posted by splash

Parenting comes with no rights... and I wish people could get it.
You have no rights to that child. To only thing that being a parent gives you is responsibility. It does not give you the RIGHT to make any decision, it gives you the responsibility to do it. If it were about RIGHTS, then parents could do any old thing they wanted... because RIGHTS are for themselves. But responsibility is for others. And therefore it is a parent's responsibility to do things in their child's best interest. And if that means they have to accept that they were violated as a child, and that their child will have something they never did, then oh well. It's the responsibility of a parent to put the child's needs above your own desires.
We make decisions for our kids every day, because they cannot. But those are decisions that MUST be made. The kid has to have a name. He has to have medical care. He has to have clothing. He has to have schooling. He doesn't NEED to be circumcised. So, once the NEED of the choice is gone, the responsibility of it is gone as well. And only the people who think that parenting is about parental rights will continue to choose to circ. The ones who understand it's all about responsibility realize that they've done their already by letting the kid stay the same as he was born.

splash, that is an amazing post. I wish I could print that out and hand it to everyone I know who is a parent or planning to be one!

[ared1]

Wow. Some of these responses are so way off my base ad MEAN. I started my whole venture with It's MY kid MY choice so FU, and now I have 2 intact boys. Sarah took the time to come back and respond in an articulate and intelligent manner to my defensiveness.

I think people who are adamently "my child, my choice" either grew up in homes where they were considered a little less than meaningless, or they are currently in relationships where their partner has most of the final say. I think it's all a big power trip to them. They are gods, in a sense, with the power to control everything about their child--even which body parts he "deserves" to keep

This is so absurd I don't even know where to start. My parents loved me, and i knew it, my DH is great and not controlling and I certainly don't have a God complex. I just simply didn't know better. I never even knew that you had a choice NOT to circ. If my DD had been a DS, I would have circd. NOT ONE DR, not one person told me otherwise. Every man I have been with has been circd. I didn't have access to the internet and online Moms groups. I simply just did not know and when someone ATTACKED my parenting ability/decision my first knee jerk response was-MY kid MY choice. If that 1 mom on my DI board hadn't posted asking Who will circ? And my innocent response...Why wouldn't you? I don't know what would have happened. SO go back and read this thread and all your responses and think how what you say could effect the way people respond. Thanks Sarah, for taking the time to educate me even with my abrupt attitude, you persisted and I have you to thank for saving my boys. Shame on the rest of you. I know this post is rambling and I am sorry but I was just so angered by some of the responses. I know we get tired of hearing the same excuses over and over but what if no one had taken the time to explain to me or you?

[MommytoB]

It can be definetly hard to approach people when they use that phrase even in knee jerk way because I have seen people talk about how they so happy that their son's are circ and with no infection diseased causing foreskin which I just wonder where in the world do they get that kind of information ?

So more likely more future intact males in the usa like the other world that have foreskin and as long the quacks which are old school doctors are not in the greedy initiative or uneducated on the 'truth' of foreskins will help future mom's realize it's not as bad as once people "once" thought.

Wait until the day future conversations of the mom's pro circs

Mom: WAnt my boy circ
Dr. You can't
Mom: Why ? It's my choice , I'm his parent
Dr. It's not allowed anymore

So I can't wait til the choice is not allowed and I will be like hip hooray because I also believe that a parent has no right of altering a normal functioning right of a healthy body part to me it's like removing a heart.

[lizzie]

Well stated, Splash. That ought to be posted throughout the land.


lizzie

[hipem]

Originally Posted by splash

Parenting comes with no rights... and I wish people could get it.
You have no rights to that child. To only thing that being a parent gives you is responsibility. It does not give you the RIGHT to make any decision, it gives you the responsibility to do it. If it were about RIGHTS, then parents could do any old thing they wanted... because RIGHTS are for themselves. But responsibility is for others.

Beautiful, really well stated!

[Minky]

When people question me wanting to homeschool my children, not having my children vaxed, cosleeping, extended nursing, I often say that it is my choice to do these things with my children. I don't mean it in a possessive way and try my best to meet my children's individual needs as people. But we do all use that argument, my child, my choice.

And while we may realize that circumcision isn't an issue where "my child my choice" is a good response, someone who knows nothing about circumcision may think that it is a decision like homeschooling, cloth diapering, cosleeping, where there's one thing the medical establishment says, theres the thing that everyone's doing, and neither way harms the child, it's just different choices.

We know circumcision is not like that but not everyone who says "my child, my choice" know's!

I think when someone says it we need to realize it's because we're misinformed and attempt to inform them. I never used "my child my choice" when I intended to circ my children but if I had and I would have received an insulting response I think I possibly could have shut down, stopped researching and had my son circed.

The way to respond is more information. The one thing I agree with is explaning who's penis it is does constitute giving more information. But insulting a person and there way of childrearing isn't going to do it and its counterproductive.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by MommytoB

Wait until the day future conversations of the mom's pro circs

Mom: WAnt my boy circ
Dr. You can't
Mom: Why ? It's my choice , I'm his parent
Dr. It's not allowed anymore

So I can't wait til the choice is not allowed and I will be like hip hooray because I also believe that a parent has no right of altering a normal functioning right of a healthy body part to me it's like removing a heart.

That sounds nice, but I don't think there is the remotest possbility it will ever happen. As long as any religion requires it, followers will see attempt at banning the procedure as religious persecution and it therefore will never be banned. And as long as those who believe they must cut their sons for religious reasons are allowed to, then anyone for any reason must also be allowed to cut their son.
But if we all keep working, perhaps your hypothetical conversation will have the doctor tell the woman that he will not perform such a procedure and it isn't covered by insurance and if she insists on doing it despite the harm it will cause, he will not keep them as patients. And then if the next several doctors she sees tell her the same... maybe it will start to sink in and she'll change her mind. (Or maybe she will just keep looking and will find an unethical doctor who will do it.)

Jen