Feeling pessimistic about the culture I'm raising my kid in...

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I get so down sometimes with the culture in the US regarding family life, parenting and childhood. I don't feel like pointing out examples but, if you feel this way too, please share and tell me how you deal with it.

[johub]

I am having a real hard time with this right now.
I have both a teenager and three little ones, and I really am doing a 180 when it comes to my views on the negative influences culture has on our kids and family life.
I USED to be the non-sheltering type. I wanted to raise a kid who knew what was going on, and who I believed would have the skills to navigate life with some wisdom.
But I am starting to see things differently. I have even been thinking more and more about homeschooling, but the fact remains that I personally dont think I want to or would enjoy it. My primary motivation is (sadly) to keep my three precious children away from all the other kids and influences in this world.
I used to think that children who are raised in a "sheltered" way grow up to be entirely unprepared for the "real world" . Now I question that and wonder if perhaps children who are protected from negative outside influences more are more likely to reach a true maturity and in the end be MORE capable of dealing with the "real world" because they face it with true wisdom and self-knowing and not as innocents.
Or maybe there is some middle way. I dont know.
I am in a real bad place right now where it seems everythign I believed was "right" might very well have been "wrong" after all, so I guess I am not in a good position to answer this. I am likely being reactionary!
Joline

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by johub

I am having a real hard time with this right now.
I have both a teenager and three little ones, and I really am doing a 180 when it comes to my views on the negative influences culture has on our kids and family life.
I USED to be the non-sheltering type. I wanted to raise a kid who knew what was going on, and who I believed would have the skills to navigate life with some wisdom.
But I am starting to see things differently. I have even been thinking more and more about homeschooling, but the fact remains that I personally dont think I want to or would enjoy it. My primary motivation is (sadly) to keep my three precious children away from all the other kids and influences in this world.
Joline

Hi Joline,

I don't have teens yet, so maybe I shouldn't be replying

I don't homeschool and in many ways I'm not sheltering. But I have always followed my kids lead and never forced them into something they're not ready for. So far I've seen good results. My kids are still fairly young though.

I know some sheltered kids who are not the nicest kids. They are mean to other kids which is one thing that really pushes my buttons. They are not so much "ap"ed but they are raised fairly crunchy. I think doing ap stuff and parenting is much more important than lifestyle choices but that's just me.

I've seen bad parenting in all sorts of families. And maybe the results of it too.

[muse]

Well we dealt with it by leaving the US and moving to England. We preached a lot to people here about how awful US culture is for kids, how we feel so much better raising them in Europe, etc etc. But now, guess what, we miss America and will likely move back soon.

The way it will work for me will be to surround myself with a community of like minded people, steer well clear of mainstream US culture (no TV, shopping malls, etc) and make the most of the opportunities in US culture that we didn't appreciate enough at the time.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by muse

Well we dealt with it by leaving the US and moving to England. We preached a lot to people here about how awful US culture is for kids, how we feel so much better raising them in Europe, etc etc. But now, guess what, we miss America and will likely move back soon.

The way it will work for me will be to surround myself with a community of like minded people, steer well clear of mainstream US culture (no TV, shopping malls, etc) and make the most of the opportunities in US culture that we didn't appreciate enough at the time.

Your post made me step back and say, "HUH!?!" We recently moved back from Europe VERY RELUCTANTLY. I came back to the US kicking and screaming. The US culture is poison, but more than anything, kids are not taught to look at issues from all points of view and work is valued over family here. Europe has such a wonderful focus on children and family, opportunities for kids, diversity, great schools, tolerance. I love that babies are considered important enough that they PAY mommies to stay home with their babies for a year or more. Mostly, I love that the media does not have a hold over people's minds in Europe and that people educate themselves about all aspects of an issue before making up their minds. I hate that in the US, FOX News is considered a place to get information. Most people here don't even consider alternative news sources and therefore are like sheep to the slaughter. I mean where in Europe could a president do what Bush has done? (Actually, I'm surprised Tony Blair IS still around.) Although I've never LIVED in England or any other parts of the UK, I've probably spent the equivalent to about... 6 months or so there. Why in the world would you want to come back to the US?

[velochic]

ICM - there a lot of things we are starting already, although dd is only 4. Knowing that we will not homeschool, we applied to, and thankfully were accepted into a multi-cultural language-immersion school. She's learning her 4th language now. Over 50 countries are represented by the student population and we are hoping that this diversity will help. Dh is not American, so even at home we talk about tolerance, diversity, and different cultures. We travel OUS as much as possible, live abroad every chance we're given, return to Istanbul to see family as much as possible. We avoid mainstream media, including PBS, and try to get our news from alternate media sources, including subscribing to French, German, Turkish, and English news sources. We avoid mainstream food sources (processed foods) and are teaching dd about eating healthy, organic, and whole foods. We teach her about conservation and not wasting resources. We don't allow her to be caught-up in commercialism, including not dressing her to be a walking Disney, Dora, Wiggles, Barney, etc. advertisement. We are trying to teach her about buying only what you can afford, when you can afford it (save to buy instead of using credit) and that it should be a quality item that is not meant to be disposable. Reduce, reuse, recycle.

That's about all I can think of right now. Basically, we try to steer her clear of those things that make the US culture so scary. I don't want her to be a sheep... I want her to swim against the tide.

[TinkerBelle]

Originally Posted by velochic

Your post made me step back and say, "HUH!?!" We recently moved back from Europe VERY RELUCTANTLY. I came back to the US kicking and screaming. The US culture is poison, but more than anything, kids are not taught to look at issues from all points of view and work is valued over family here. Europe has such a wonderful focus on children and family, opportunities for kids, diversity, great schools, tolerance. I love that babies are considered important enough that they PAY mommies to stay home with their babies for a year or more. Mostly, I love that the media does not have a hold over people's minds in Europe and that people educate themselves about all aspects of an issue before making up their minds. I hate that in the US, FOX News is considered a place to get information. Most people here don't even consider alternative news sources and therefore are like sheep to the slaughter. I mean where in Europe could a president do what Bush has done? (Actually, I'm surprised Tony Blair IS still around.) Although I've never LIVED in England or any other parts of the UK, I've probably spent the equivalent to about... 6 months or so there. Why in the world would you want to come back to the US?

While I am a proud American and respectfully disagree with some of your political views, I will say that I agree that a lot of people in the US do not educate themselves on issues properly. But it is not all on the side of the more conservative. A lot of the more liberal folks I know are just as bad as the more extreme conservatives I know.

JMO.

I would love to visit Europe though. So many things to see and places to visit.

[wildmonkeys]

I often feel this way too. I am very worried about the materialism/elitism and lack of interest in knowing anything that I run into on a daily basis. The suburban sprawl and big box stores that seem to be taking over the entire country really freak me out. The fact that Bush was elected again still baffles and angers me. Aggressive driving and a general feeling that people are getting less nice scares me. The lack of support mothers who make different decisions and live different lifestyles saddens me - where is the fellowship of motherhood I expected?

That being said, other countries have their own issues. They might not be the same as issues in the US, but in the end people are people and behavior often falls short of ideal.

We spent time in Peru and though there are aspects of Peruvian culture that I prefer and we have tried to incorporate into our lives; however, the disparity in wealth and opportunity there was so extreme that I have never been able to reconcile how people treat other people like that. I am aware of extreme poverty in the United States - have worked in poor neighborhoods in Washington, DC and as a social worker in rural West Virginia, but it still misses the mark of what I experienced there. The riots in suburban Paris - genocide in Africa - extreme classism in India - sexual exploitation - etc. etc. etc. Around the world - human beings could do better.

But, back to the OP. Yes, I also find it very depressing and struggle with it daily.

Peace & Much Love,
BJ
Barney & Ben

[DoubleOven]

:

[USAmma]

I have tried to bypass some of the cultural things I don't like in the US by homeschooling. I am not trying to shelter my children. They are well informed. My 5yo knows about war, how babies are conceived and born, she knows that different families pray to God differently and some do not pray at all, and where meat comes from. What she doesn't know about are cliques, racism, pressure to wear the latest fashions, teasing, and bullying.

She will get exposed to those in some ways when she starts to attend a one day a week program for homeschooled kids, held at a public school. But she will not be thrown into it 5 days a week. I feel like limited exposure with us talking about it will be a gentle way to expose her to it.

As she gets older she will have to learn to live in our culture, but she will hopefully have the strength and values from her upbringing and the kind of people we choose to hang out with, so that she will feel confident with who she is. It's important for all of us to raise our kids to stand up to pressures from society at some point, to learn to speak their mind when it goes against popular views.

I want to see adversity as a chance to make her strong, but on her timeline, with me supporting her untl she can support herself. OTOH it would be nice to have neighbors and friends who all shared our values so I didn't have to constantly explain to her why that mom is not picking up her crying baby, or why that other mom is saying four-letter-words to her kids at the store. I guess what I'm saying is that, since we can't move to another culture, I am creating that culture in our home.

[annakiss]

I really feel that it comes down to how you parent. There will be negative influences that our children are confronted with, but I feel like that's part of life. That's part of the context of our lives. Granted, we are homeschooling, but that doesn't mean that my children will never face this throw-away, consumerist culture. They will most certainly be confronted with it. I will be here to help them process it. I am not restricitive. I do not believe in sheltering, but we have our own mini-culture (our community) that our children will be exposed to most and that will give them the foundations they need to make sense of the world.

My parents were very, very cool parents. Very socially-conscious, very rock-n-roll, AP, whole foods, politically active folks. My sisters and I went to Montessori before going to public schools and I can see how we grew up and where we got our ideas from. They came from our family and our family's friends. We are all very outspoken now and I can see my sisters (who are 7 & 9 years younger than me, still teenagers) still formulating who they are within all the noise of the world. They are very much themselves.

I've seen unschooling families too where the kids still get into the consumerist culture. I'm not sure how that will play out as they get older, but I think it's an important lesson that says we can't control who our children become - they will always have that choice.

My main concerns these days are the state of the world - I am nervous about an uncertain future and if my children will live to have children. Granted, I'm dealing with emotional anxiety these days, so I'm afraid of zombies, but that's a whole 'nother issue. :

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I'm feeling a little bit better today. For the record, I know there are pros and cons to living anywhere and I did make a conscious decision to live where I do. But, it's on days where I get a heavy dose of the cons that I get down but I'm not a generally negative person.

Right now, what's really getting to me is the price of food (compared to other less necessary goods) and the lack of respect for my safety when I'm on my bike. Also the pricey kids activities and the fact that the playgrounds are empty. The TV and commercialism gets to me as well.

It's also the extremes that get to me. I can't describe this without getting far more petty than I want to be right now but there just seems to be this phenomenon where every idea gets taken to a level where it doesn't appeal to me. Or where, the core ideas get left out of something and the focus is on a more minor issue.

Anyway, thanks for joining me in a little vent and giving me some things to think about.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

X-post with lots of people...I'll be back. Gotta go play cards with DC

[muse]

Originally Posted by velochic

Your post made me step back and say, "HUH!?!" We recently moved back from Europe VERY RELUCTANTLY. I came back to the US kicking and screaming. The US culture is poison, but more than anything, kids are not taught to look at issues from all points of view and work is valued over family here. Europe has such a wonderful focus on children and family, opportunities for kids, diversity, great schools, tolerance. I love that babies are considered important enough that they PAY mommies to stay home with their babies for a year or more. Mostly, I love that the media does not have a hold over people's minds in Europe and that people educate themselves about all aspects of an issue before making up their minds. I hate that in the US, FOX News is considered a place to get information. Most people here don't even consider alternative news sources and therefore are like sheep to the slaughter. I mean where in Europe could a president do what Bush has done? (Actually, I'm surprised Tony Blair IS still around.) Although I've never LIVED in England or any other parts of the UK, I've probably spent the equivalent to about... 6 months or so there. Why in the world would you want to come back to the US?

Well I agree with you on many many points (particularly about the media, BUsh, and about the work-family balance) and they are many of the reasons we left the US to start with. But, to clarify, I would *only * go back if it's to the SF Bay Area, which to me in many ways is a whole different country.

And I feel the culture there in some ways beats that of England; here it is the norm to spend many days of the year indoors, watching TV. There we were out and about all day every day. Here, unless you live in London, there are very few truly multicultural areas to live; there the diversity was astounding. In many ways it was a much more progressive, creative and activist minded community. I've always felt England is fine, but the extremes in the US are what make it a very interesting place to be and are what has given rise to some amazing artists, musicians and thinkers. I could go on and on but having grown up in England myself I don't feel it's a particularly wonderfully child-friendly or child-positive culture.

And all that aside, from all our moving around something I've learned is that children are incredibly resilient and it's more important to us that we are doing what we need to be doing in order for our children to grow and be happy. I am happier there and more able to do the things I need. I trust in our parenting to believe that our dc's will survive and benefit from the culture there.

[mommytolittlelilly]

The foremost issue in my mind right now is why do so many little American children we've encountered seem so aloof or scared or alienated or WHAT? My daughter is 2.5 years old, and keeps trying to approach other kids up to maybe 6-7 years old to just talk or play, in settings such as our public library, the playground, just around the neighborhood, or at the mall. The other day we walked by a little girl about 4-5 years old on a bike with training wheels, and my daughter said hello to her and complimented her on her bike in a friendly sweet voice, and this girl totally ignored her. She could talk, because I heard her talking to her dad. At the library the other day, my daughter approached a couple of girls who were playing with a puzzle, introduced herself, and asked if she could sit down and play with them. They were probably 5-6 years old. They said NOTHING. NOTHING at all. Just looked at my girl like she landed from outer space. Then, she tried talking to a couple of other kids, must've been a brother and sister, who were just standing around. What did they do when she started talking to them? Looked nervously at her, didn't say anything in response, and quickly walked away....

Is this normal? Is this stranger-danger BS to the nth degree? I sure don't remember being totally IGNORED as a kid when I approached other kids...

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

I get so down sometimes with the culture in the US regarding family life, parenting and childhood. I don't feel like pointing out examples but, if you feel this way too, please share and tell me how you deal with it.

This is BIG issue for me. Though I am not pessamistic........deeply concerned would explain my feelings better.

I am hopeful that we all can make a difference. I am hopeful that my children will see the evil for what it is and make good choices.

It saddens me how far from good America is.

However, I am grateful for the freedom that I have here.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by TinkerBelle

While I am a proud American and respectfully disagree with some of your political views, I will say that I agree that a lot of people in the US do not educate themselves on issues properly. But it is not all on the side of the more conservative. A lot of the more liberal folks I know are just as bad as the more extreme conservatives I know.

JMO.

I would love to visit Europe though. So many things to see and places to visit.

Please go back and read my post. I never once mentioned anything about liberal vs. conservative.

[USAmma]

Originally Posted by mommytolittlelilly

The foremost issue in my mind right now is why do so many little American children we've encountered seem so aloof or scared or alienated or WHAT? My daughter is 2.5 years old, and keeps trying to approach other kids up to maybe 6-7 years old to just talk or play, in settings such as our public library, the playground, just around the neighborhood, or at the mall. The other day we walked by a little girl about 4-5 years old on a bike with training wheels, and my daughter said hello to her and complimented her on her bike in a friendly sweet voice, and this girl totally ignored her. She could talk, because I heard her talking to her dad. At the library the other day, my daughter approached a couple of girls who were playing with a puzzle, introduced herself, and asked if she could sit down and play with them. They were probably 5-6 years old. They said NOTHING. NOTHING at all. Just looked at my girl like she landed from outer space. Then, she tried talking to a couple of other kids, must've been a brother and sister, who were just standing around. What did they do when she started talking to them? Looked nervously at her, didn't say anything in response, and quickly walked away....

Is this normal? Is this stranger-danger BS to the nth degree? I sure don't remember being totally IGNORED as a kid when I approached other kids...

YES!! My dd gets this all the time. It's awful!! Luckily she's persistant and will find other kids that talk back on a busy playground. But the two girls in our cul-de-sac choose to ingore her.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by muse

Well I agree with you on many many points (particularly about the media, BUsh, and about the work-family balance) and they are many of the reasons we left the US to start with. But, to clarify, I would *only * go back if it's to the SF Bay Area, which to me in many ways is a whole different country.

And I feel the culture there in some ways beats that of England; here it is the norm to spend many days of the year indoors, watching TV. There we were out and about all day every day. Here, unless you live in London, there are very few truly multicultural areas to live; there the diversity was astounding. In many ways it was a much more progressive, creative and activist minded community. I've always felt England is fine, but the extremes in the US are what make it a very interesting place to be and are what has given rise to some amazing artists, musicians and thinkers. I could go on and on but having grown up in England myself I don't feel it's a particularly wonderfully child-friendly or child-positive culture.

And all that aside, from all our moving around something I've learned is that children are incredibly resilient and it's more important to us that we are doing what we need to be doing in order for our children to grow and be happy. I am happier there and more able to do the things I need. I trust in our parenting to believe that our dc's will survive and benefit from the culture there.

That's interesting. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I've never been to SF, but have always heard about its WEATHER... so wonderful. It's good to hear that there are more substantial reasons to live there. FWIW, right now we are living in the midwest... ick! Worse still, in the suburbs. There is NO multi-culturalism here in our 'burb. Dh is nearly an outcast (he's middle-eastern) and gets strange looks in this community. If we are up for a move within the US, I'll make sure to check out SF. Cheers!

[EnviroBecca]

I know what you mean, but I try not to bog down in it. I've recently been involved in a discussion about alternatives to marriage in which a woman's been saying that no individual woman can have a non-oppressive relationship with a man unless ALL women rise up and demand better relationships, and explaining why I think she's wrong is helping me understand how I've handled being different from the norm in many aspects of my life. It's very disheartening to feel surrounded by people who are "wrong", esp. if they're always nagging you to be like them. But if you have enough contact with people who are "right", you can carry around that rightness with you even when you're awash in the dominant culture. I learned from my mom that it's okay to be different from the people around you when you are following your own conscience and learning and growing.

The biggest thing I've done to cope is to move to Blue America. Yes, there are people here who CIO and watch Fox News and any other "wrong" thing you can think of, but at least they're aware that not everyone thinks the same way they do. (I grew up in a town where, according to my parents, in 2000 and 2004 nobody put up signs about the presidential election because it was assumed that everyone within sight would vote for Bush!) No, not everyone we meet agrees with us, but it isn't too difficult to find people who do. Hanging out with like-minded people on a regular basis fortifies us for dealing with the others.

Some things I've done to build my culture:
Hosted a weekly "game night" open house, inviting friends to come over and hang out.
Become a Girl Scout leader. The values of Girl Scouting are the tenets of my daily life, and guiding girls to learn them strengthens my soul.
Joined a church where people believe that religion isn't just for Sundays, and gotten involved with lots of activities there.
Split an organic farm share with friends and met for a weekly dinner (alternating houses) on the night we get our veggies.
Become a Mad Lab Rabbit.
Organized recycling programs at gigantic conventions and gone around from booth to booth collecting recyclables and getting signatures on petitions to ask the convention center to collect recyclables. The general population is much more in favor of recycling than you might think!
Chosen to commute by public transit so that I feel like part of a group rather than an individual in a car, and so that I'm not contributing to the traffic problems that so distress me as either a pedestrian or a driver.
Looked in the events listings of the local free newsweekly for interesting things to do. Many of these are poorly attended, which provides opportunity to talk with those who are there.
Decided to buy certain staple items from small local businesses where the staff have time to chat and my money is going back to my community.
Joined the Friends of the Library.

Just some ideas that might help.