National Geographic Programs?

[kalisis]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I just need to share with some like minded people.

There was a show on tribal Africa last night - it was very interesting and DH and I were watching it. It's talking about the daily life of this particular tribe and then started explaining their different kinds of celebrations, marriage, etc. Well, one of the celebrations is the 8 year old grandsons manhood ceremony where he gets circumcised. I had no idea it would affect me the way it did - I literally felt ill. I was in tears and pretty inconsolable and actually thought I was going to throw up. I've seen the videos that intactivists use of infants being circumcised, but maybe because I watched them without sound, or I don't know why, they didn't upset me nearly as much as this did. To see that beautiful innocent child be restrained by his father (who couldn't watch himself and was crying) and have part of his body cut off - OMG. I'm still reeling from it and just can't find the words to express the horror I feel. DH just said to me, "Well, it's their way and who are we to judge?" And I don't know that I'm judging, I'm just thinking about my own personal reaction to it and how much it affected me.

I was adament before about my own children, but now, I think I have to start speaking out for all children.

[LavenderMae]

I saw that show or one very similiar. I can still picture that child's face and hear his cries. His face showed shock, of course pain and something else even sadder that I don't know how to describe. And that stayed even after the mutilation was done. It changed that child forever and not just physically.
I think it is our duty to judge atrocities.

[LeosMama]

That's ridiculous.

I know that there's a gray line somewhere in there, but we can't just turn a blind eye to atrocities b/c it's not our culture.

How about rape? How about stoning a 14 year old child to death because someone thinks she was raped? How about selling a little girl into marriage at the age of ten so a 30 year old man can rape her repeatedly and kill her in childbirth?

It's not our culture, so it's okay.

Beat your children, slice off their fingers, rape your daughters, deny suffrage and economic freedom to half of your citizens. Condone slavery, genocide. Saw off a mother's breasts so she can't feed her baby.

Where is the line? Is it all or nothing? If I can't judge in the gray area, does that mean I can't judge in the black area?

[gabysmom617]

I saw that. I was horrified. The first show that came on their were 2 kids and they were 8 years old.

In that same show, a 15 year old girl was given in marriage against her will. You could see the glimmer in her eye was gone, she looked so depressed.

In the show that came on after that, they had a circumcision ceremony and there were 4 boys and they were all five years old.

In the latter show, you could see the changes in the boys eyes. For days before the ceremonies, their fathers acknowledged how they would go off by themselves and reflect on what was ahead. There were very afraid.

Their cries and while their fathers were holding their eyes shut was awful. The mothers were not even allowed to be anywhere near, even though they would steal away and get close enough to watch while hiding behind trees.

I felt naucious and held my babe a little tighter while I watched.

It was heartbreaking.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by LeosMama

I know that there's a gray line somewhere in there, but we can't just turn a blind eye to atrocities b/c it's not our culture.

I know it's been beat to death, and blind eye was turned for a long time, but there's certainly been plenty of international outrage over FGM in those parts of the world. But when it comes to MGM they make prime-time programming out of it. :

I saw those same shows, except I was thinking it was on the Travel Channel; I don't know what channel I'm on half the time, LOL. All that crap about those tiny little boys being made "into men" by mutilating them just makes me sick. And the one tribe sequestered them away from their mothers for 7 WEEKS following the circ in order to heal!!!

Still, I can see how it would be hard to stand up against your community and culture and say NO. It's sad that people in the US feel such enormous cultural pressure to circ; it's not even close to what goes on in those countries. It's a whole, elaborate public event for those tribes. Here, a parent can keep their child intact and pretty much keep the decision to themselves (thought it's better if they don't! ), without being outcast from their peer group. Yet... sad...sad...sad

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by anniej

DH just said to me, "Well, it's their way and who are we to judge?" And I don't know that I'm judging, I'm just thinking about my own personal reaction to it and how much it affected me.

Just imagine that it was an 8 year old girl instead of an 8 year old boy. Would you feel justified in judging then? Our culture comes complete with cultural blinders.



Frank

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by Sheacoby

His face showed shock, of course pain and something else even sadder that I don't know how to describe.

Perhaps betrayal.



Jen

[ScotchIrishMommy]

Originally Posted by gabysmom617

I saw that. I was horrified. The first show that came on their were 2 kids and they were 8 years old.

In that same show, a 15 year old girl was given in marriage against her will. You could see the glimmer in her eye was gone, she looked so depressed.

In the show that came on after that, they had a circumcision ceremony and there were 4 boys and they were all five years old.

In the latter show, you could see the changes in the boys eyes. For days before the ceremonies, their fathers acknowledged how they would go off by themselves and reflect on what was ahead. There were very afraid.

Their cries and while their fathers were holding their eyes shut was awful. The mothers were not even allowed to be anywhere near, even though they would steal away and get close enough to watch while hiding behind trees.

I felt naucious and held my babe a little tighter while I watched.

It was heartbreaking.

the show with the four 5-year-old boys was on the travel channel. did you notice how they could show the nudity of the women's breasts, and the men were scarcely covered, but the blurred out the vicious cutting of the children. I am still overcome by the perversion of the human race that takes a knife to the genitals of its own innocent children. it's bad enough to not keep hands off of children's genitals - but to not even keep KNIVES away! SICK

[ScotchIrishMommy]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

Just imagine that it was an 8 year old girl instead of an 8 year old boy. Would you feel justified in judging then? Our culture comes complete with cultural blinders.



Frank

We really our our "brother's keeper" i believe -- these are fellow human beings .... humans, esp human children, deserve protection from the certain lunatic practices some describe as "culture and tradition"

[Galatea]

Well, this is the problem with that "It's not our culture; we should not judge attitude."

Years ago, Europeans colonized Africa and the Americas, etc. And they discovered people there who were not as technologically advanced as themselves, and so easily conquered. So it was easy for them to say, "These stupid people with their stupid ways." This came from a thought position of total superiority - racism. Now, in the 1960s, people began to see that racism wasn't okay, and academia began to see everything from the point of view of the colonized peoples. If we used to say that the colonized people were less than us, then in the 60s we couldn't say that at all, b/c that would be racist like we used to be. So the pendulum swung the other way. Having been an anthropology major, I can tell you that it is easy to get stuck in this relativistic thought. But really, it is stupid to say, "Racism is all bad, so relativism must be all good." People need to understand the history of this type of thought, so that we can move beyond both and have a synthesis - just b/c racism is bad doesn't mean that all judgment is bad. If we say that we cannot judge circumcisers in Africa b/c their culture is different, yet we continue to say that circumcision is bad for American boys, then what we are really saying is that those African boys are worth less. So we are still being racist! If circumcision is bad here, it is bad everywhere.

[kalisis]

Thank you for your responses - I knew I'd get a better perspective here and a better way to articulate what I was feeling.

And you're right, it was the Travel Channel. We don't get cable and I watched it at my parent's house, so it all seems the same to me.