swords in pre-school?? I need advice!!

[twin1coby]

Hello all! I'm an MDC reader who has rarely posted, but today I feel like I need to call on mdc mamas for a little perspective. My ds is enrolled in 3 days/week (2.5 hrs/day) of pre-school through our local unitarian church. Today when I arrived for pick-up the teacher was reading PeterPan...swords, lost hand,and alligator attack and all. Now my question is am I over-reacting?? We have tried to keep all aggression and violence in books (not to mention commercial junk--not that Pet.Pan is junk but it falls into a big category for me of Disnified stuff) at an absolute minimum, with the thought that seeing violence and aggression played out at 3.5 yrs old is not helpful for the burgeoning gentle boy we are trying to raise. As he gets older, I think more complicated stories will be useful as a means toward talking and teaching about things like swords and people who are don't have a gentle way of treating others!

Anyway, it boils down to this: his teacher is a sweet older woman for whom I have a lot of respect (she's taught 3 yos for almost 30 yrs!) do any of you have suggestions about whether or not I should discuss this with the teacher (am I over-reacting) and perhaps for ways that I could talk about it that would be the least hurtful...

Thanks for ideas and suggestions!!

[Marsupialmom]

I do think you are over reacting, but that is my personal opinion.

Do you read him any other fairy tell? Most have violence.

Once you put your child in a school setting/away from you you loose some of the control.

Not all these books are bad. It is the time you start talking about these ideas and putting in your morals and values.

Also many bible stories have violence. My sister was very disturbed by God's violence in flooding the Earth story. They were trying to show how wonderful it was and alls she oculd see was good killed everyone......

[twin1coby]

I know, fairytales are usually really complicated and often violent, and we don't want to keep these stories from our ds forever (impossible anyway!!!!) especially because some of them are wonderful stories! But, I just don't know if he's ready...and this concern comes partly from the fact that ds has banned books with crisis and meanness in them from bedtime reading (we were given a buddhist children's book about a tree that gets angry when people try to burn the forest...we've only read it a couple of times, and now ds says "there's a very angry tree in that book" when he sees it on the shelf and doesn't want anything to do with reading it...similar reaction to several other books with minor anger/violence in them) ... He's very sensitive and attuned to emotional dynamics in books!

So, anyway, this is where my reaction comes from, but I do feel on the cusp....part of me feels like stories with "difficult themes" will be entering our world soon enough (and that this is good and educational!!), so no big deal, and part of me feels like his teacher should know better than to introduce sword fights to three year olds....ugh. I'm trying to become better adjusted to the realities of the world but at this point I feel protective and disappointed.

[Marsupialmom]

I also want to encourage you to read at least one of these books

Raising Cain : Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys (Ballantine Reader's Circle) by Dan Kindlon

The Wonder of Boys by Michael Gurian

What Stories Does : A Guide to Books and Movies that Build Character in Boys
by Michael Gurian

[johub]

I feel that even sweet civilized boys who are in touch wiht their emotions experience things like aggression. By keeping all references to agression and violence out, it deprives them of healthy outlets and the ability to understand and label their feelings.
Keeping all references to violence and aggression away from children doesnt make these normal human reactions cease to exist in our children.
My gentle sensitive boys also happen to be excellent little swordsmen though so I am likely biased.

[twin1coby]

[I feel that even sweet civilized boys who are in touch wiht their emotions experience things like aggression. By keeping all references to agression and violence out, it deprives them of healthy outlets and the ability to understand and label their feelings.]

Yes, yes! We think that too, and of course don't forbid aggressive feelings, we have just been pretty careful about not offering books that play out aggression between people to our son at this young an age (3). We talk with him about how to respond to anger and try to model productive ways to express emotions ourselves (not OK to hurt others, but ok to be angry, and even to want to hit (etc), just not OK to do it)...Acting out his own stories that include aggression is OK with me, but I'm wavering about offering him the (kind of prefab) exaggerated snarling grimaces found in many disney stories.........yet....?

Also, thanks for the refs marsupial mom, I know the arguments of Raising Cain, and need to read it more carefully now as my little guy is getting to be a bit bigger, AND very excited about the media book by MG! I think both will be helpful!!)

Eik, I am still more than a little unsure about putting books with violent/really mean-spirited material (sword play and "evil" characters) in front of my 3 yo. Perhaps he is ready for slightly more complicated story lines (in these regards) than we have offered so far...Also, I think I have some issues to work out myself w. regard to all this too...and maybe reading the books marsupialmom suggested will help me start to sort it out.

[Hera]

Do you mean the actual Peter Pan by Barrie, or a re-telling? Because the actual book is very dark and scary, imho. I tried reading it to my dd at age 4 or so and there was no way. Very spooky.

That being said, I'd recommend the book "Killing Monsters" by Gerard Jones. It offers another perspective.

[alegna]

3.5? Yeah, I think you're probably overreacting. Pre schools are going to read typical books and I don't think that a child's version of Peter Pan is unreasonable for 3-4 yr olds.

-Angela

[Marsupialmom]

Another good book to read is Playful Parenting....

Your son is growing his play is going to change greatly. His play most likely will turn aggressive with a wide range of emotions. Playing can held him through these things.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

What was your son's reaction to the story?

[Kincaid]

3 year old? nope, I don't think you are overreacting at all. Not if you chose a preschool affiliated with a Unitarian church, there are certain things you must have expected (i.e. non-violence). You don't teach one thing during services and then set different standards for children. "Kids will be kids" I think is a cop out.
Maybe the point is there are better things that could be done with limited pre-school time (usually 2 hours a day) than reading a story with weapons or fighting. I think this shows lack of thinking on the part of the teacher. Gosh, there are so many wonderful, gentle, exciting books out there for THREE year olds. We don't need to put bopping/hitting/hurting in front of their faces, what ever happened to "redirection"? LOL

[nicole lisa]

Originally Posted by Hera

Do you mean the actual Peter Pan by Barrie, or a re-telling? Because the actual book is very dark and scary, imho. I tried reading it to my dd at age 4 or so and there was no way. Very spooky.

Lol, I was going to suggest the exact opposite. I HATE the re-tellings but find the orginal beautiful. DS was riveted the whole way through. We have the centenary edition which is also gorgeously illustrated.

DS just found it the most magical story.

[4evermom]

The story would have been disturbing to my ds at age 3. I think he would be fine with it now, at age 4.5. He would have been particularly bothered by the concept of motherless children. The important thing is how your ds handled the story. Many people think that anything written for children, especially Disney, is fine for them. But children vary greatly in sensitivity. With regards to sword play, I don't think the typical 3-4 yo has the impulse control to not thwack another kid if they are excited and playing "swords".

[twin1coby]

In response to pp, it was a rewrite of the original (cartoon Disney version). In a similar incident (not at school at Gpas and Gmas) he listened to the original Jaberwocky (sp??) ...talk about not OK for kids! He's been processing that one ever since just after the holidays, we still talk about it almost everyday...

He doesn't seem to have been bothered by the story at school. But as I stood bhind the group and watched the reading of the last 5 or so pages, and saw my little guy on his knees bending in to see the pictures *I* was bothered...

[Kundalini-Mama]

Originally Posted by johub

I feel that even sweet civilized boys who are in touch wiht their emotions experience things like aggression. By keeping all references to agression and violence out, it deprives them of healthy outlets and the ability to understand and label their feelings.
Keeping all references to violence and aggression away from children doesnt make these normal human reactions cease to exist in our children.
My gentle sensitive boys also happen to be excellent little swordsmen though so I am likely biased.

I have to completely agree.

And the following is 100% true. Tonight before bed, we read Barrie's "Peter Pan and Wendy" and must have engaged in 60 sword fight throughout the day. Even the baby picks up a sword and tries to fight.

HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Playful Parenting by Cohen.

[TranscendentalMom]

It would probably bother me. I don't think 3.5 is ready to be exposed to it. I don't freak out when my son is exposed to things like this by his peers because I have absolutely no control over that except to quarantine him which is not an acceptable option. But I don't like it when adults expose him to it and when he has no choice. In other words, if he goes over to the shelf and picks out a book on Hercules...fine. But when an adult starts saying things like "let's play good guy bad guy..bang bang" that bothers me a lot because I feel that its putting ideas and concepts in his had that he is not seeking out.

There's a book I'm reading called "Who's Calling the Shots?: How to Respond Effectively to Children's Fascination With War Play and War Toys" that is WONDERFUL. It gets into the benefits of war play and why boys are fascinated by it. But also the downsides of modern war toys which have only a singular purpose, don't encourage creativity and therefore the toy is in control of the child not the other way around. Its a great book.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by johub

I feel that even sweet civilized boys who are in touch wiht their emotions experience things like aggression. By keeping all references to agression and violence out, it deprives them of healthy outlets and the ability to understand and label their feelings.
Keeping all references to violence and aggression away from children doesnt make these normal human reactions cease to exist in our children.
My gentle sensitive boys also happen to be excellent little swordsmen though so I am likely biased.

I agree. My very sweet sensitive boy is also a fine swordsman and archer for that matter. He even made his own wooden sword at preschool. All the children did, boys and girls alike.

[lilsishomemade]

I remember loving stories like this as a child. Was he bothered by it? If it's still bothering you, then bring it up, and discuss it. See what he got out of it, if anything. That may help you feel better about where he is emotionally, and understand what it is he can handle and so on. I think you understand that sometimes, it's when kids are confronted by different situations, that they better understand these values we're trying to teach them, especially when their parents take it as an opportunity to learn from it.

[twin1coby]

Thanks to all for helpful replies, and especially for the book recs. I have read Playful Parenting, and it is helpful to think about particularly bc it might help me to "play through" some of the issues that may come up as my son begins to understand aggression between people and starts to act it out (in hopefully mostly playful ways). I'm eager to collect the other recs at our library!!

I'm still unsure about whether to bring the whole issue up to his teacher, but after reading replies and thinking more about it, I think I'll wait this one out and talk with her if there is another instance of this kind...