My childrens dental visits Vent :(

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I guess I am just unlucky with dentists for my kids. First I took ds in to a family dentist, over the phone they tell me sure we can deal with one his age, 14mo at the time. Well I take him in and the dentist comes in has me hold ds's lip up to see his top 4 teeth then says yep he needs to see a pediatric dentist. So there is #1 wasted trip : So they make me an appt for him with a pediatric dentist, at least that is what they say this dentists is.

I drive a hour to get there and get into the office of what is obviously a dentist that deals with mostly adults. They call me back and this very young dentist comes in and askes some ? then I hold ds's lip up to show him his teeth. Well he is stumped and goes out to confer with another dentist there in the practice. Comes back in and askes if he takes a bottle, no he never has a bottle he is still bfed. Well that throws him off again so he goes out and calls a actual pediatric dentist to ask what to do.

He comes back in takes the little tooth checker thing and checks to see if Xanders teeth are soft. Says he cant tell anything. This dentist is obviously scared todeath he is gonna hurt Xander. The dentist he has called says that he will need to be put under general just to do a exam WTH?? And he will need to be 3yo anyway before they can do anything. Then he adds that he dosnt see how it could be a genetic factor, I had told him about my older brother his top 4 teeth did the exact same thing at the same age, and then he says since I nurse Xander to sleep and thru out the night that I should consider changing that : Xander is not nearly ready to night wean and nether am I. I firmly beleive that nursing him at night wont cause this as I nursed my dd till 32mo and for the last 6months only at night and her teeth were perfect.

So he walkes me out and says I need to call back and make the appt. to have Xander put under to do an exam. Well I am thinking of course that isnt gonna happen. So at this point I gave up and said unless he started to hurt with them I wouldnt bother with another dentist since he said that about him having to be 3yo. So that was wasted trip #2 I have since posted here and found out that there is things that can be done so I went on the net and found a pediatric dentist all the other ped. dentist recommend and I have a appt to take him next month. Wish me luck that this just isnt anouther wasted trip.


Now onto my daughters story she is 5yo. I took her in today to a childrens dentist. I will not be taking her back there since after the first visit the parents are no longer allowed back with them. there is no way on God's green earth any child of mine will be left alone in a room with a stranger wether it be a dentist or a dr. It just blew my mind to see all those little 5-8yo kids being not only left back there alone but the parents actually LEAVING the building (whole other vent in that topic )

Anyway she does great, this is only the second time she has been to the dentist, the first time was when she was around 18m and got a extra tooth. Since then she hasnt needed to go back. Now she has a cavity that is hurting her when she eats So we sat there for and HOUR AND A HALF!!!!!! I went up to the window and asked was this typical and she said yes needless to say I wouldnt have went back there even without that stupid no parents policy. I dont mind so much a 30 min wait but a frigging hour and a half no exscuse for that other than there poor schedualing.

So they wanted to do a x-ray to see if the nerve was affected yet. Poor little thing they put that piece in her mouth and it makes her gag, she has a major fear of throwing up always has I guess since she has rarly thrown up in her life. They bring anouther hygenist in to try to get it done even spray her throat with that numbing stuff to try to stop the gag reflex but now Alenna is scared because she knows whats coming so she starts to cry I talk to her encouraging her to try again and she does but she couldnt handle it. All this time the hygenist is commenting on how she isnt even trying and how if she wants mommy to stay in the room then she will have to try harder : well we ended up not getting the x-ray and a referal to another dentist who can give her laughing gas. Silly me for thinking that since they delt with children there they would be able to give this but NNOOOO so wasted trip #3.

I will have to pay for all these visits were nothing was really done. Altho it wasnt their fault that Alenna couldnt handle the x-ray thing. I hate having that done myself it always hurts my mouth enough to make my eyes water.
So the dentest she is supposed to go see next is Wednesday. They are supposed to call me tomarrow to get info and give me directions and I will be asking them about there parent in the room policy and if they say no then I will be hunting anouther dentist.

Well that is the end of my saga for now. I never thought this would be this complicated and irritating. I will be back after I talk to the person that calls tomarrow to let you know how that goes. Feel a bit better getting that off my chest. Thank you all for reading my post if you made it this far

[crunchy_mama]

oh, how terrible! I have a friend going through this right now, why, oh why is it so hard to find good dentists for kiddos. Good for you for standing up for your babies.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Well I talked to them today about the appt they had schedualed tomarrow for the other dentist. They also have the no parents in the room policy after the first visit. they did have a different way to get the x-ray so I was considering going to get that done but they wont see dd because she has asthma. :

So I called anouther place that was recommeded to me by a woman at church. They are fine with parents in the room and fine with dd's asthma. But I dont know if they can do the x-ray or not. I asked if they had the stick thing instead of that big hunk of plastic but I am not sure she understood me. But they do offer laughing gas so at least they wont have to send me to someone else. She said that they would work with dd to get the x-ray i am just hoping that dosnt involve threatening her like they did yesterday. : since I know that wont work I will tell them to stop if they start. So I have to wait till the 13th to take her and ds has a appt the 1st so I will be back with updates. Hopefully with good news.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Today was ds's appt at the ped dentist. The hygenist sp* looked at his teeth first and asked does he take a bottle I said no he is bf she said yep that is what is causing the problem. Then went on to explain that my nursing him at night was causing the milk to just sit there and suggested that after each feed at night I brush his teeth : She then had me fill out the pre-admitance form for the hospital were they would need to do the caps. Telling me the usual no eating 12 hours before surgery thing and I asked does bm count for food she said yes he couldnt nurse either. I told her there was no way that was possible as he still nurses every 1-2 hours at night. She said well you'll have to talk to the dentist about it.

The Dentist comes over and talks to ds and then looks at his teeth and proceeds to tell me the exact same thing the hygenist did. I asked him why my dd who was bf just like ds had no trouble at all with her teeth he said he really couldnt say. Then went on to explain that new studies have shown that decay can be caught just like a cold?? From the saliva of anouther person from kisses or eating after me dh or dd he said good news tho in his life time there should be a vax that will protect the babies from those decay germs

The hygenist told him what i said about the 12 hour no nursing and he told me that they consider bm a clear liquid and he would only have to not nurse for 4 hours before the surgery. At this point I dont care what they think caused it I just dont want ds to end up loosing those 4 teeth. I in no way think nursing has anything to do with what caused it. Now that the decay has started tho anything food or bm is gonna make it get worse Right now they are savable.

So I was faced with 2 choices I could go ahead with the hospital and general anethesia or he could do it there in the office via papoose. Me and dh talked about it all the way home with me nearly in tears thinking my baby could die under anesthesia I just am not at all comfortable with that. I hate the idea of him crying and being scared but I think in this case it is the least of 2 evils. The dentist said the risk of doing it in office included he may cut his lip, he may drop the crown into his mouth and he could choke or swollow it. I know it will be hard on ds but in the scheme of things it is the safest option. He didnt say anything tho about the death risk with the general. : I just have a horrible feeling something bad will happen with the general anesthesia.

So now all i have to do is come up with the $1,500 to get it done I have no idea how we will accomplish that as we live check to check as it is. We do have dental ins. but it is the kind that reimburces after we pay.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Update

Well in about 12 hours dd has an appt with the other dentist to see if they can do the x rays and fix her cavities. I am not holding my breath that this visit will go any different from the others. I want to have my : but after all i have been thru dont wanna get my hopes up to much. I just want her teeth fixed so that we can get on with our lives already. :

For now getting ds's teeth fixed is not gonna happen cause we just dont have that kind of money. If it becomes a must, if they start bothering him we will come up with is some way but for now just gonna watch him close and go from there.

I will be back with a update when we get home tomarrow.

[mamaGjr]

what horrible experiences! i have never dealt with anything like this
but i did notake ds to the dentist for the first time til he was almost 3!

i would definitely not let them tell you that bf does anything bad!
waiting for more updates

[gabysmom617]

Originally Posted by MRDCatLvr

.....Then he adds that he dosnt see how it could be a genetic factor, I had told him about my older brother his top 4 teeth did the exact same thing at the same age, and then he says since I nurse Xander to sleep and thru out the night that I should consider changing that : Xander is not nearly ready to night wean and nether am I. I firmly beleive that nursing him at night wont cause this as I nursed my dd till 32mo and for the last 6months only at night and her teeth were perfect.

Check out this link:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/tooth-decay.html

In that article:

In a study done by Dr. Torney, no correlation was found between early onset (< 2 yrs) dental caries and breastfeeding patterns such as frequent night feeds, feeding to sleep, etc. He is convinced that under normal circumstances, the antibodies in breastmilk counteract the bacteria in the mouth that cause decay. However, if there are small defects in the enamel, the teeth become more vulnerable and the protective effect of breastmilk is not enough to counteract the combined effect of the bacteria and the sugars in the milk. Enamel defects occur when the first teeth are forming in utero. His explanation is based on quite a large study of long-term breastfed children with and without caries.

According to this research, a baby who is exclusively breastfed (no supplemental bottles, juice, or solids) will not have decay unless he is genetically predisposed, i.e.. soft or no enamel. In a baby who does have a genetic problem, weaning will not slow down the rate of decay and may speed it up due to lack of lactoferrin

i'm sorry you had to come up against so many idiot dentists.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Thank you very much for that link gabysmom617 I had looked other places for that kind of info but didnt find it. I have read many times tho about the protective qualities of bm and teeth. I know that now that his teeth are like they are no matter what he puts in his mouth be it table food or bm it will contribute to the decay

I will be back later with info on dd's visit.

[gabysmom617]

Just to paraphrase a quick additional point i found interesting in that article.

In that article, they mentioned that there is a higher risk of toddlers developing dental caries when they share any kind of saliva involving activities with adults. Such as sharing food, utensils, cups, wet kisses, etc.

There is a link with that and dental carries. Also, some toddlers/people are just genetically predisposed to dental problems, so even if you do everything "right" according to the dentists, they will still get it.

I have a feeling that in your case, it's just genetics, since you mentioned (i think it was) your little brother or some one in your family had the exact same thing happen to them.

(nak)
n-e-how, u r doing the best by nursing. who knows?--maybe if u weren't, your babes teeth may have been worse than they are now. nursing helps give his teeth protection during this time.

Ok, keep us posted!

ETA: U may get more responses with helping with your son if you cross posted the part about him in one of the extended breastfeeding forums. Maybe some moms have been through the same thing. After all, they also nurse their toddlers, and their toddlers have teeth too.

I just wanted to post since I had looked up that info before for some one who was worried about nursing their babe in their sleep during a nursing strike because they were worried about the babe's teeth.

I have no working knowledge about this topic, as I have one child who is only 7 months old, and as of yet, still very toothless.


just a thought, you may get some more responses out there.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Update yet again with a bit of venting

Well we are back home and I am very upset. The dentist couldnt get a x ray of course I knew tht would be next to impossible after what happened last time. He looked at her teeth and told dh (I stayed in the waiting room with ds)that she has 8!! cavities and that she needs to be put under general anesthesia to fix them otherwise it would take 4-6 visits there to the office to do it. I am so upset I DO NOT want to put her under any more than I wanted to with ds.

I am gonna have to really start my research on the risks of general I know for a fact that people die when they go under and some never wake just become a shell, some have allergic reactions and have sever brain damage. Yes I know those are all worst cases but it DOES happen. So what if it is just 1 in a 100,000,000 that could still be my child Part of me cant help but thinking they want to do the ga thing just to get more money, : I know sad and maybe harsh but with the past experiances i have had with the medical profession and the more I read about things they do I cant help but wounder.

Of course I want to go the least tramatic route with things but i dont want to risk my child's life for something that isnt a medical necessity. Yes I know that having bad teeth can totally mess up the rest of your health as well. It is just so hard to know what is the right thing to do. If something were to happen while she was under I could never forgive myself. DH says if we pray everything will be ok I know that he is right but deep inside I am terrified.

I am writing all this here in the hopes that it may help someone who may come across the same thing and to help me gather my thoughts as well.

[gabysmom617]

Did you say your daughter was 5 years old?

I don't understand, I remember being a kid, and I had a few cavities and they just numbed my mouth to give me fillings. I didn't have to go under general anaesthesia or anything. I don't remember, but maybe I was not as young as she is. If I was older, it couldn't have been all that much older. I had fillings in my molars and I kept them for a few years until they fell out naturally in middle school.

i must have been around 8 years old or so.

What kind of work do they have to do on her?

Can't they even attempt to numb her mouth first, and then if that doesn't work, discuss alternatives?

It doesn't hurt to numb your mouth, for I never even knew that they used a needle in there until I was much older. My mom says after my fillings were all finished, and I was set to go, she asked me if the needle hurt. I was like, what needle? She was like, they use a needle to numb you. I was like, well, they must not have used one on me.

Later, I realized that they rub a heavy dose of novacaine (sp?) gel on your gums first and then they wait awhile for that to take effect and then the use a needle to do the heavy numbing. The result is you don't even realized they even used one, especially if they go real slow while injecting.

I think it's a load of crap for them not to want to allow you in the room with your daughter. I would think you would have the right to insist on being with her.

I'm not sure about the age if your little son and needing to be under general anaesthesia, but I would think that they could at least try other alternatives to general anaesthesia with your 5 year old. (Not including a papoose. I have a real problem with those.)

I'm just ranting with you now, I'm not really sure of all your rights and options regarding this matter.

I'm sorry mama. I wish I had more advice for you.

ETA:

Upon reflection at your posts it seems like you are more concerned about the general anaesthesia than anything else.

Just calm down for a moment and describe exactly how bad the cavities are and what exactly needs to be done?

Depending on how severe the cavities are, there are different ways to handle them.

There are sealants. The lesser of all the evils. I've had them before when I was young to last me until I was able to get the fillings.

Sealants are for minor cavities and don't take much time at all. I've had time before. I think they just cover the spot to protect it. They don't last long, however, and have to be refreshed, or whatever, from time to time. Not very permanent.

Then their are fillings. They are usually metallic. I had to have my mouth numbed for those, as I think it was for cavities that had penetrated into the "pulp" of my tooth, where my nerves and things were.

Then there are "caps". I think they are for worst case scenario type situations.

It sounds to me like either
1) The mouth numbing doesn't last very long, so they are trying to get your daughter in there and get everything done and out the way in one big project to keep from having to stretch you out over many visits and prolong the process.

or

2) not sure about the cost difference. Perhaps maybe they are trying to clean you out. And wrack up some $$$$$$$$$ But maybe not. I'm not sure about that one.

Calm down and don't stress so much over general anaesthesia. NO one will think you are a bad mother because you don't want to go that route. I think you are a very GOOD mother to consider all the risks of every procedure.

There ARE other options than general anaesthesia, even if that means you have to go back a few times before getting done for your peace of mind and your daughters safety, then that's ok.


What exactly is it that they need to do to your daughters teeth? Sealants, fillings, or caps?

Keep us posted,

[eminer]

I'm so sorry you have been through all this.

I don't have much time to write right now. However, after going through a ton of dental crap with my older dd, I would like to comment...

- There is no excuse for a dentist recommending deep sedation (GA) with no particular reason -- i.e., in most cases, without having tried less invasive approaches, in order from least on up. My dd has been to a number of dentists and, big surprise, I've found that the GA-recommenders tend to be the least good at working with kids! They just don't want to bother learning the social skills needed to do it the safe way. :

- Dental visits shouldn't be traumatic. Make sure you find a dentist who is gentle and patient. THANK GOD after so many years of seeing dentists and having problems (including previous work that fell out, and good dentists who moved), my dd is finally in the middle of that series of 4-6 visits! Some of her dentists could not take an x-ray without becoming threatening, manipulative, coercive. With the right approach, several visits just means several positive experiences to reinforce a positive attitude toward seeing the dentist. Much is made of the pediatric vs. regular dentist distinction: TOO much, IMO. Some generalists are good with kids, and some pediatric dentists are awful. To save yourself money and trauma, you can call and ask to speak to the dentist on the phone, then pull out your list of questions, just like you might when interviewing a pediatrician.

- Don't forget to question the treatment options. My dd was 2yo the first time a dentist told us her four front teeth would need to be extracted. In the hospital under deep sedation, of course. She is now almost 4 1/2. She's enjoyed the use of her teeth for 2 1/2 more years, and now finally actually does need one extracted (the worst decayed -- it was broken -- the rest will very likely last until they come out on their own). She will have that done with nitrous and novacaine.

Good luck to you and your kids!!!

[TudoBem]

I am going through a somewhat similar situation as you in that my 17 mo. old has decay in the front four teeth. He will need to get caps placed.
I debated initially about the oral sedation vs. IV (where I am IV sedation is an option).
First, I asked a ton of questions about the necessity of the treatment. Basically I wanted proof that the teeth were as bad as they said they were. I also asked was the decay moderate or severe and could treatment be held off for a few months.
Secondly, I spoke with the anesthesiologist that would perform the IV sedation. I had a page of questions with all scenarios written out and spent close to 2 hours talking to her.
In the research that I did a couple interesting points came up as I had concerns about the "risk of death" from being put under. According to the anesthesiologist, the greatest risks have to do with factors such as previous medical issues (i.e. heart murmurs, history of ill health, allergies, asthma). Age of the patient can be a factor, but mostly if the young age (under 18 mos.) is combined with previous medical conditions. There can be a risk of allergic reactions but they have counter medications on hand that can be administered immediately if that comes up. The positive with this level of sedation is that the child is monitored extremely well and if anything like respiration or oxygen saturation decreases they can address it immediately.
Now, regarding the oral sedation, a lot of people think this is the "safest" option. Under a trained person with emergency back-up and if the sedation is very light this can be the case. There was a big controversy with this, I believe in the early 90's in California when there were quite a few deaths of children under oral sedation. Basically the children experienced complications and the dentist had no idea how to handle it. I believe that now pediatric dentists in CA have to be certified in oral sedation in order to perform it and hopefully it is much safer. If anyone's interested, there was a segment on 60 Minutes about this in 1999, I believe. You could call and request a transcript.

So regarding your decisions I would just advise you to do a lot of research and to go with your gut. For me, I initially thought the oral sedation was best because I felt it was safer but I had a strong sense that it would be wrong for my child. Maybe for yours oral sedation would be best. If you have a gut feeling that the general would be too risky for your child, then go with that feeling. But if you feel that it might be best, then talk to the anesthesiologist and ask all the hard questions. If your child is healthy the risk is very low. If they have medical issues risk does go up, although honestly I'm not sure it's any more risky than the oral sedation (I say this based on my research of deaths and complications due to this option).

Best of luck in your research and decisions. Going through this is agonizing. We're scheduled for my son's surgery in March and I'm already dreading it. I'm just trying to remind myself of all the people who said that once it was done they felt so much better. You'll get to that point, too!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Thank you all for being so great in responding. I will try to answer the questions u have.

Yes she is 5yo. First with dd she has 8 total cavities 2 of them are bad enough that they are causing her pain when she eats they will need caps on them the others, that i wasnt even aware of, can be fixed by filling them or putting sealents on. The dentist today did say that it would take 5-6 visits to fix them all seperate that is why he suggested putting her under and doing it all at once. I would much prefer just going back a few times especially since only 2 of them are actually causing her pain.

It was honestly a shock to hear about the sedation when the last dentist had just said put a cap on it in office and never even mentioned putting her under. They just wanted to send me to anouther dentist who could do it with nitrus oxid since they didnt do that there.

I didnt go back with her my dh did so I didnt get to ask him if he would be willing to do the seperate visits. They tried to do the x ray thing again but she would have nothing to do with that. My dh said that she was very uncooperative about keeping her mouth open and he was worried they wouldnt be able to do anything with her. I am thinking tho that with the nitris oxide this wouldnt be such a big problem? I have never had it before but dh has. They have already schedualed the "operation" for april the 10th : The price of this will be around $1,500 to.

They always used novacain on me to as a child so i dont understand this new thing about putting them to sleep at the drop of a hat.

About my ds his top 4 teeth are in very bad shape they look like they are not all the way in because they have broken off so bad You can actually see the white enamal at the gum line and below that it is just raw brown tooth. The enamal has broken off to the gum line. He wont bite down on anything with them so I have to assume they hurt if he does He dosnt cry or anything like that yet.

I also have issues with the papoose but when I weigh that against possible death with sedation it definatly seems like the lesser of 2 evils. He was born with a heart murmer but his ekg at 2 months was normal. I honestly dont know if it is still there the dr at the last visit we went to didnt mention it. I plan to take him back in the summer to request they check it and to possibly get a ultra sound( my brother was born with heart problems) so I want to make 100% sure than ds dosnt have the same thing.

Right now I dont feel a rush to get his teeth fixed but I know that it will have to be done at some point because of the horrible decay. And I dont want them to get so bad that they cant do the caps and have to pull all 4 teeth.

I think i covered it all but if i didnt u can let me know it helps just to be able to discuss everything.