Help! My 3yo twin ds hate 10mos sis.

[doula and mom]

(Cross post from "Toddler" board)

By the way, I am an only child, so I don't know what's "normal" sibling fighting and what's not.

My 3yo MZ twin boys are STILL not fans of their baby sister. DD is 10mos now, and crawling everywhere, and they are really awful to her. She will happily crawl toward a toy, and one of them will run over and grab it and shriek, "No! Mine!" If she gets too close to them, one of them will smack her or knock her down. She is an easy-going baby with a sweet disposition and it just breaks my to see them being so rough with her.

I do spend a lot of time with just them, since she is still napping twice a day and sleeps much later than they do in the morning, and I feel I am a very loving and nurturing mom, so I don't understand where they are getting the physical-ness and the agression!

Please! Suggestions, advice! I feel so terrible about this. She is such a sweet happy smiley baby, but how much abuse can she take before she gets bitter or mean?

[~member~]

Originally Posted by doula and mom

If she gets too close to them, one of them will smack her or knock her down.

That is not normal.
Do your 3 yr olds get to have activities outside the home? That might help with the boredom and with the concept that it is never okay to hurt a baby.

You might want to spend more time with one 3 yr old and the baby teaching them how to be gentle or come to you for help. I think it would be too hard to do it with all three, so one-on-one might be more effective, kwim?

[j924]

MITB I have to disagree with you. I see it as perfectly normal. Someone has come into their home that they see as a threat for what ever reason. Couple that with the agression and power trips that most three year olds are going through and I see it as a normal expression. Of course it being normal amd okay are two different things. To the op, when my dd was three she would do all kinds of strange things to her 1 yo brother. She would push him, sometimes, hold toys out of reach pick him up etc. She feels that she doesn't have a lot of power over things(she is the third of four kids) and she was able to hold some power over her brother. They are now 2 and 4 and their relationship is remarkably different. I think you are doing a great job spending time with each child and making everyone feel special. When the three of them are together, could you help them learn some special "baby" games. My dd loved spending time in the baby's room, so we would all hang in there together until she understood better how to handle disagreements with the baby. I think your greatest ally is time. Your boys don't hate their sister. They just need some time and guidance and to see how fun she eventually will be. HTH

[~member~]

Originally Posted by j924

MITB I have to disagree with you. I see it as perfectly normal. Someone has come into their home that they see as a threat for what ever reason. They just need some time and guidance and to see how fun she eventually will be. HTH

So, in your mind it is abnormal for siblings to treat each other with respect, love, and care?
And, a baby is for fun?

I think when you start to think that way, it is more difficult to create a loving family unit. It is perfectly normal to love each other, including siblings.
It is abnormal to hate, to hurt, or cause pain.

[j924]

IIRC I mentioned that I don't think the boys hate their sister. Three year olds are sometimes agressive/soemtimes lack impulse control and sometimes have a hard time expressing their feelings. All completely normal. So is having fun with a baby. Babies are fun, siblings are fun and my kids have a lot of fun and lots of love but even with that they sometimes fight. We work it out. The family bond is still intact and we are all quite normal.

[j924]

Erika

Back again. I just read a really cool idea in another thread. The mama was discussing having a be nice to X day. That was a day where she would just be extra nice to her ds. How do you think having some be nice days would work? You could start with the boys and then when it is dd's turn you can all brainstorm some ideas of how to treat her extra nice. I am definitely going to try this one myself.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by j924

The mama was discussing having a be nice to X day. That was a day where she would just be extra nice to her ds. How do you think having some be nice days would work?

I see more problems than solutions using that idea. It implys that the rest of the days are okay to be not nice to X.
I, also, think it is wrong to force a child to be nice or give undivided attention to another all day.

It doesn't teach respect, boundaries, love, or ways to communicate feelings.
3 yr olds are at the stage of having their brains able to think or know what they want, but their language skills are not at the same level which leads to being easily frustrated or discouraged.
I would really suggest focusing on communication and how to meet everyone's needs as a family.

[momof4peppers]

Oh this sounds like our house! Some days they are all ok together, others, look out. Mine don't yet really get the 'we take turns' concept, so as a way to teach it, I've been planning on instituting it's S's day! or it's D's day! He gets buckled into his seatbelt first, gets out of the car first, picks whether we have PB&J or Mac and Cheese for lunch, that sort of stuff. I'm HOPING it will reduce the demands on MY time to be a short order cook, the frustration that one or the other feels by not being 'first'.

I also have twins who are 4, and a baby who is 20 months. I've tried teaching them negotiating (D, you were first last time, can S be first this time?), I've tried teaching them empathy (see how upset your sister is,can't you let her be first?), I've tried the mom-is-dictator thing, so the "day" thing is next. MIIB, it's NOT about 'it's ok to not be nice the other days' it's about setting up a system and a routine to teach them that it's not their turn now, but it will be soon. A structure to give them safety to express their feelings (I'm sad it's not my day) and the joy of being able to see how their decisions affect the family.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by momof4peppers

I also have twins who are 4, and a baby who is 20 months. I've tried teaching them negotiating (D, you were first last time, can S be first this time?), I've tried teaching them empathy (see how upset your sister is,can't you let her be first?), I've tried the mom-is-dictator thing, so the "day" thing is next. MIIB, it's NOT about 'it's ok to not be nice the other days' it's about setting up a system and a routine to teach them that it's not their turn now, but it will be soon. A structure to give them safety to express their feelings (I'm sad it's not my day) and the joy of being able to see how their decisions affect the family.

I have 9 yo twins, 5 yo, 4 yo, 3 yo, and 10 month old. IME, it is not a good idea to ever start the whole "my turn first" as that just sets everyone up for a power struggle.
Life is not fair, and life does not offer 'turns'.
I don't want my children to ever feel sad that it's "not their day", I would rather we are all happy and everyones needs are met.

Okay, for communication purposes, Sign Language has been an awesome and very effective tool. Especially when teaching my kids to listen to their body's and minds and decide if they are hungry, thirsty, need attention, need space, etc.

[Suzetta]

While the feelings of your older children are within the realm of normal, their actions are totally not acceptable.

I was the younger sister of two older brothers...my mom was totally useless to protect me from them, and my dad was of the "boys will be boys" mindset. Their abuse never ended, even into the teenage years when they were left "in charge," only to taunt me the full time the parents were out of the house. It got to the point that whenever I tried to tattle, I was pooh poohed away, and whenever I tried to defend myself, my mom and dad teased me saying "See, you are the one starting the trouble!" Needless to say, I don't have much to do with my crazy family these days. The second oldest brother has even done and said things to me into adulthood!!! Now I have zero contact with him, and my children will not be allowed any contact with him. This has caused a huge rift in my family, as my parents (as usual) will side with him.

In your shoes, I would help the boys understand that there feelings are normal, but they need to be dealt with in non aggressive ways. When you see that they are not playing nice, I would either send them to another room, or remove the baby and pay some extra attention to her, thus removing all of your attention from them.

I beg of you to protect your daughter from them...even if it "seems" like you are siding with her...with two big boys against one little girl she deserves to know that someone is looking out for her. I am ready to fall into tears just writing this post...I can't tell you enough times how terrible it is to look back on how defenseless I felt those days.

[Mountaingirl3]

You sound like a great mom, and I'm sure this will get better.

I think your boys' behavior is normal, but not acceptable. They aren't doing it because they are mean or violent people. It's up to you to find the real reason behind their aggression. Do they do it more when they are tired? Hungry? Bored? Cooped up inside?

Does each of them get separate alone time with you? Do they treat each other this way? Do they get enough running around exercise? Do they get away to pre-school?

Recently, I read a study that said that sibling rivalry results from boredom as much as from need for attention.

I have a 3 year old and an 8 month old. She tackles him, squeezes too hard, knocks him over with "hugs", and takes his toys. But, she also dances and sings for him, and makes him laugh.

Have your twins discovered how fun it can be to make the baby laugh with silly faces and noises (while you hold her and make sure it doesn't get out of control)? Our baby loves to watch his sisters jump up and down, and then I hold him under the arms and jump him with them. He is delighted. We also play chase when the baby is "it" and I carry him and make him run after the girls.

They preform for him--I'm a little teapot, twinkle twinkle and itsy bitsy spider. Also, we're teaching them baby signs and they love to show him. They get along best when they have breaks from each other (school), when they're getting enough time to run around outside, and when each one is getting a little bit of absolutely individual attention from me and dh.

If your twins actually hurt the baby, I would tell them they need to be away from the family until they can be gentle, and put them somewhere alone. But accept an apology and welcome them back as soon as they're ready. Other than that, I'd focus on the positive things that will build bonds with their sweet sister. Also, you could talk to the baby about being gentle and sharing with her brothers so they see that the same expectations apply to everyone.

FYI, my oldest was awful to her sister. She was not very verbal and constantly grabbed toys, knocked her over etc. But, she also kissed her goodnight, had fun in the tub with her, played peek-a-boo etc. The positive stuff wins out. Now, Dd #2 adores her sister and they play creatively for hours.

[doula and mom]

Thank you all, for the ideas and input.

I know what they are doing may be "normal" but is not acceptable, as I do NOT want what happened to Suzetta to happen with her.

I immediately attend to dd when they get physical with her, I pick her up, hold her, cuddle her, whatever she needs. It seem that any punishment towards them for their behavior is delayed by making sure the baby is okay.

They do OCCASIONALLY spend time with her happily, T will climb into her crib and jump with her, or R will make silly faces at her to make her giggle. But it is so rare.

Sigh.

[MsChatsAlot]

I think for awhile, you need to be there all the time when they are with the baby. Make sure you praise and reward all the times they are good and stop/prevent any incidents. If you are consistent, it could really help them learn that being nice to their sister is a positive experience.

Some personalities have more difficulty adjusting to a new sibling. My nephew used to deliberately kick, pinch, hit, knock over his brother. Being there and being vigilant is really important to teach everyone what is appropriate and acceptable.

BTW - I agree with those who have stated that a be nice day and a day for everyone to go first can create more problems than you are trying to resolve by doing it.

[Jane's4]

[QUOTE=MsChatsAlot]

Some personalities have more difficulty adjusting to a new sibling. My nephew used to deliberately kick, pinch, hit, knock over his brother. Being there and being vigilant is really important to teach everyone what is appropriate and acceptable.
QUOTE]

How true. I'm also a mom to 3yo MZ twins and a 9mo, so I empathize with you, OP. It seems from what you are saying that you are providing lots of attention and love to all of your kids, and FWIW I do not think labeling your sons' behavior as abnormal is at all productive. I do think that you need to protect your baby and have a zero-tolerance policy about aggression toward her, and I think the best way to implement that policy is to be right there next to them and to offer lots of encouragement when they are treating each other well.
It's easy to fall into the trap of feeling like you are "siding" with one child over the other, and I think moms of more-than-one face a lot of internal and external scrutiny about whether we are meeting each child's needs, providing enough attention, etc. Of course, you want to constantly evaluate your parenting, its effect on your kids, and so on, but sometimes it's helpful to just separate the issue at hand and just focus on getting through it. I don't know if that makes sense...but here's what I did--My girls had somewhat mixed emotions toward the new baby. One in particular was "rough" on occasion. So we addressed it from 2 directions. First, we told all the kids that we do not hurt each other, and that no one may hurt the baby. Any time either of them were rough with him, they were removed from the area and told "You may not hurt a baby", and we made a pretty big deal out of it, so they would know how serious it was. In that moment, we absolutely "sided" with the baby. Secondly, and apart from these incidents, we tried to figure out where the aggression was coming from, and if there was anything we needed to be doing differently. We decided that even though we were giving the girls a lot of one on one time, they needed a little more. We also decided to try to get them a little more invested in their baby brother's well-being. For example, I will ask them when I change him--which diaper do you think he wants to wear? Does his bum look red to you? Do you think it's sore?, or I will ask them to pick out a toy they think he will like to play with. When he cries, I ask them what they think he wants. I will even ask them now to "watch" him while I get something from another room, even though I can still see them all, just to make them feel like they are taking care of him.
The result has been that there is no aggression toward the baby at all anymore, and there hasn't been in months. Once in a while, one of the girls will grit her teeth and kind of growl at him, but she won't aggress, and because she stays appropriate, we can address her feelings right then and there.
HTH