Need help convincing dh

[elmh23]

So, dh and I started talking about circ this past weekend. I don't want to, he does. I'm not great with speaking on the fly, esp. about something I'm just learning about (like circ.) Dh asked me to talk to him when it wasn't a day off (this was Friday and he had had a HORRIBLE week at work!) He also asked that I get the positives and negatives of not circing. Obviously there are more positives, but I need to know everything, or else he'll just call it biased and dismiss it.

On the plus side, he said he wouldn't argue with me if I was pregnant. But I do want him to decide before I'm actually pregnant, ya know?

Thank you so much!

[Yoshua]

should be asked. Any religious backing or are you asking for purely medical information?

[Tofu the Geek]

Hmmmm, you want to leave your baby intact, the same way he will be born. He wants to cut off part of his penis but he won't do the research?? I think that it should be up to him to prove that circumcising is beneficial. You could do some research if necessary to refute any incorrect information he comes up with, but if he does proper research he'll come to the same conclusion you have.

Really, the default state is intact. His logic that you have to come up with proof to keep your baby the way he was born is not right.

[Jasmyn's Mum]

There is an awesome thread in CAC forum called "Are we human or are we dogs" written by DaddyJoe. I highly recommend you read it. I found it quite powerful; especially cause it was written by a man.

[KBinSATX]

I think you will find tons of good medical info on this subject on this site.
Here's also a site with lots of research articles: www.circumcision.org

Just give him the link. You can also shorten the debate to a more ethical and less medical focus:
Having parts of your body removed should be the decision of the person that body part belongs to. You do NOT have the right to make that 'choice' for another human being. If your child should later on desire to have it done I am sure you will support him in whatever decision. But if you circ, you deprive him of that right.

[LeosMama]

What a strange idea to me: That you should have to defend not amputating normal, healthy, functional parts of someone else's body.

There are no medical reasons to remove the foreskin or any part of the foreskin on a normal person. So why would you remove a part of his body? For medical reasons, of course, and no one here would deny that. But there are no unequivocal medical reasons. The penis is healthier, has few problems, and works sexually and physiologically better when intact, just like any part of your body.

Sorry, I know that's not facts. A great place to get a lot of links to information:

http://www.coloradonocirc.org

-Lindsay

[elmh23]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

should be asked. Any religious backing or are you asking for purely medical information?

We're Catholic, but the circ converstation actually started off of a religious converstation about not needing to circ. He's got all the religious stuff covered (he went to seminary to be a priest) so just medical stuff please!

[channelofpeace]

We are Catholic too, and i found this really fantastic website when we were pregnant with ds

www.catholicsagainstcircumcision.org

ETA: Just in case you were curious, i know you were only requesting medical info

[Yoshua]

Well if there is no circumcision then you avoid risks like

1-Infection of the wound the surgery leaves
2-Inverted Penis which can be caused by the trauma and needs surgery later to fix
3-Meatal Stenosis which is a malfunction of the pee hole is directly related to minor infections after a circumcision happens in 1 out of every 10 circumsized boys and goes undiagnosed for the most part coz you dont find out until the kid is poddy trained.
4-and of course, death does occur from circumcisions, yes it is rare, but it is a possibility, it is documented and it has happened.

Now to the sexual aspects

1-Forskin has nerves which enduce pleausre during sex
2-The forskin protects the Glans (head) during life, which makes it more sensitive during intercorse and forplay. IE: Guy gets more pleasure
3-The frenulum (sp) which is the hangy part underneath the glans of a circumsized man is also desensitized during a circumsicion. It would be compared to the g-spot of a woman from what i read. I am circumsized, I dont know, I do however know that even though I am circumsized that area of my genitlis is much more sensitive than other areas and it makes me wonder what it would be like if I wasnt.
4-Men who are not circumsized do not need to 'thrust' as hard to get the feeling in the glans required to orgasm (or so I read). I know that as a Circumsized man it can occasionally take me up to an hour to finish and for the most part I do not think the female counterparts like this unless they are able to maintain more than once.

Intact men it seems have a different sexual experiance overall then circumsized men, and it makes sense, seeing that their genetalia was never mutilated.

You can also inform him that Female circumcision gives little girls the same medical benefits that male circumcision gives boys. Which is next to nothing.


Remember that if you do happen to get them to keep the boy intact, that is just the first step, if they do not learn how to maintain an intact son, such as NEVER retracting until the kid himself can do it himself, this includes medical check ups as well as if there is an infection seeing as most infections are cured with oral antibiotics. So just getting them to agree to no circumcision isn't your last step in this process.


If you get them to agree to this, getting the faher and mother to look at this bored will be helpful.


I am not an intactivist, but I have been lurking these boards for a few weeks, this is the info i've found and logged in my head so far, you should still do your own research to find medical links proving what I said.

[morning glory]

There is nothing about having a foreskin that will kill your son before he turns 18 (or any other time for that matter). Circumcision on the other hand HAS killed babies and young children.

Why not let your son decide for himself when he is an adult?

Really, I don't get the whole "needing proof"...its a bit of a no brainer to not cut bits off a new baby. When you buy a new car do you debate about snapping off the antenna as soon as possible? I don't mean this as criticism to the OP....just saying in general.

Casey

[Yoshua]

she asked for help... more helpful posts would be nice. i know i am not the most informed person on this board that could help this woman out.

[Galatea]

The problem with taking the "why would you amputate a healthy organ?" approach with an unenlightened, circumcised man, is that it assumes in the first question that there is something wrong with his penis. This could make a lot of guys shut down. I agree that it is a fair question, and the way that most of us see it, but someone who thinks their circ'ed penis is the way they are supposed to be might be really put off.

This is my favorite list of medical facts: http://www.noharmm.org/advantage.htm It has links to citations and is very thorough.

Finally, as someone else suggested, tell him that female circumcision cures all the same problems as male circumcision, and is even better, b/c women get more infections overall, yet he would find that abhorrent, and prefer to simply treat any problems that arise in his daughter with normal medicine and antibiotics. So why would his future son deserve any less?

[veganf]

My husband is circumcised, but he easily agreed that it was not something he wanted for his boys. Here are the reasons he decided against it:

a) when they grow up, it can be THEIR choice if they want it done.
b) evolutionarily speaking, if boys are born with foreskins, they must serve some purpose.
c) circumcision hurts (even if they're given a painkiller during the procedure, it's going to hurt for a while during healing)
d) why perform unnecessary cosmetic surgery on a newborn?
e) and sadly, his own wife (me) knows that sex is better with uncircumcised men, though I decided that wasn't a deal-breaker for marriage.

- Krista
mother to Ryan (3, self-weaned in Nov.), A.J. (2, still nursing), both born at home, and babe #3 (due Aug. '06)!

[L&IsMama]

Have him read DaddyJoe's "are we human,or are we dogs" post. Seriously,I don't know how anyone could circ their sons after reading that..Very powerful...

[calngavinsmom]

Hello there and good for you for talking this issue out while you are not pregnant. No need to get those pregnancy hormones all worked up(like they need any help ). I have a circed dh and two intact little boys. I did a ton of research while pregnant with my first and put it into a very lengthy post here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=207626 This thread is EXCELLENT for information. People have put together some of their favourite links, all categorized and easy to find.

If there is anything more specific you are looking for, let us know.


Tara

[rmzbm]

Staying intact should be the "default." Someone should show reason TO circ. - not NOT to, KWIM??

[Quirky]

Have your dh watch the circ video at www.intact.ca - I think many people don't realize what a brutal, bloody surgery circ really is. The foreskin is attached to the glans exactly like a fingernail is attached to the finger, and a circ starts with a blunt probe ripping those adhesions apart.

Also have your dh read this Men's Health article - it's good, and it was published in a very mainstream magazine. http://www.infocirc.org/MensHlth.htm

Remember that no major medical organization recommends circ. If they reviewed all the studies and found that the potential (i.e. unproven) benefits do not outweigh the known risks sufficient to recommend circ as a routine procedure, who are we to second-guess them?

Great site on what the foreskin is for: http://research.cirp.org

Also watch the video at www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org - this was done for med students and it really covers the structure and function well.

And finally, for you, read this one: http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

[Frankly Speaking]

Erin, there are virtually no positives to circumcision. Consider this: The AAP has conviened a taskforce to study the issue and for almost 30 years, they have found no reason to endorse infant circumcision. At their last general meeting, they reviewed 671 research projects and concluded that they could not endorse circumcision.

Let's look at it from a point of medical reason and logic. If there were a 50/50 chance there would be a benefit from circumcision, it wouldn't be a hard decision. The medical profession figures that if there is a 30% chance of a benefit, the procedure should be considered. The fact is that there may be a 1% or 2% chance of a benefit but that has not been established and they know that the risks are greater than that of an unexpected outcome. You only have to read this board for a few days to confirm that.

What your husband has done is to set up an impossible situation for you. He wants to see the benefits and this is a challenge that not even a panel of 9 doctors could do. You will be able to do no better. You should take the burden off of yourself and put it where it belongs. That is on your husband. You want to take no action to modify your son's body and he wants to. The human body has evolved to a level of perfection not witnessed anywhere else in the animal kingdom. He should have to justify marring that perfection, not you justifying leaving it in it's perfect state. He will search and search but in the end, he will see that it is a pointless endeavor and in the meantime, he will see your side and quit pressuring you to justify why you want to protect your son.



Frank