restoration?

[channelofpeace]

*

[Yoshua]

If you bring this to him, and he actually understands what you are saying. The first thing he will feel is that he is not good enough in bed for you.


Not that I am knocking this. But restoration should be a very personal choice for a man, not something his wife says 'what do you think about this cosmetic procedure, there is nothing wrong with you, but take a look at it'

that would be the same as a man saying 'Hey honey, look at this lipo procedure, hmmm maybe a face lift? oh, no dear, you are beautiful just the way you are, but take a look, i'll even pay for it'

It is dangerous, and rocky grounds. My ex wife cheated on me, I left her, got divorced, and then tried to work things out with her. She decided to divulge to me a multitude of what she had done while she was out, including that she had found a fantastic lover that was intact. No one else ever made her feel that way.

Including me. and she told me this.

It logged in my head, and it hurt alot, pretty much crushed my wanting to actually have sex with her. What was the use if I wasn't good enough?

Well, evidently I wasnt good enough because history repeated itself and we are no longer working things out.


My current girlfriend who is fantastic is an intactivist. She has never been with an intact man and she claims I am the best she has ever had. I still have my hang ups about my own manhood because of my past, which sometimes cause me to take up to and over an hour to orgasm. It is because I don't feel that I have 'done my job yet'

Even though I know I had, my body doesnt always work the way it should. And I chalk it up to my ex telling me I was broken.


I thought I was fine being circumsized, I didn't think I was broken at all. Then I came here and found out there was a way to restore. I've thought about it, and may try it. I don't know.

But it was my personal choice, if my current girlfriend had prompted me to do it, or told me it would 'help out our sex life' i would have been crushed. Lucky for her she didn't and I think she realizes how touchy of a subject this is for me.

All I am saying, is that you should be very careful, if your husband alreay feels as though he is broken but doesn't understand why, the way you bring this up is important and I have no idea the right way to do it. In my case I would say it should never have been brougt up.


Id almost say you should try to get him to take a look at the facts of being intact vs circed. And then slowly lead him to the boards. There are some things on here i do not agree with. I've talked it out with my GF, but there are other things I'm completely open to too. Lucky for her that she didn't point me to the Case against Circ boards. and I found them on my own.

[Yoshua]

one more thing



A possible opening would be if he has ever complained about a loss of sensation in sex on his glans (head) I would say it is 'sorta' safe to say something to him about some of the guys on the board talk about how they restored and it brought back all their sensations and then some.


that would be possibly ok, because you are more concerned about HIS feeling more in sex, then you getting more out of it from him.

[channelofpeace]

*

[Yoshua]

You do what you want to do, do it as nicely as possible.

My advise was to get him to see the anti circ info ont he boards and see if he found the restoration stuff on his own.

I dont know your husband. But if my spouse told me I was not good enough for them in bed, it would personally make me not want to have sex with them at all.


And I dont think you saw the argument i made up top.

I am sorry it is painful for you, but it would still be the equivlant of a man going up to his wife, telling her that she is to over weight for him to maintain an erection and asking her to go get lipo becuase sex is not pleasurable for him.

and a side note, this isn't a garuntee that sex will be better for you anyways. It is just a 'possibility' and restoration takes years of work and effort to do it properly so it isn't like you would be asking him to do a quick trip to the dr's office. and he would forget about it. He would have to remind himself daily that he needs to do this so that you will have a better sex life together.


IMO restoration should be a mans choice he comes to on his own. Push the issue at your own advise I listed 2 ways of broaching the subject more safely, which is almost 'not at all and hope he finds the subject on his own'


Heres to hoping other men will post in here. coz i am only one guy giving his personal advice/opinions. I am not every guy and my psyche is a bit more fragile than most guys when it comes to my genitalia because of my ex wife.


i am still lurkin this thread hopin someone comes up with a good answer for ya. but remember, it is never good to point out anyones faults and expect a good reaction back from them. and telling someone that they need to be better in bed is a major fault no matter how you look at it.

i'm sorry for your dillema. I really am. If i wasnt, i wouldnt be posting here in the first place

[phatchristy]

Wow, we are sort of in the same place.

I would have to say that for me it was basically focusing on the fact that restoring would bring a great increase in the sensitivity of the glans and that sex probably would no longer be a huge aerobic event for him. I did tell him that YES, sex is supposed to be improved for the woman as well, however that is not the major reason why I would want it for him. Obviously, if I learned something that would give the man I love the optimum pleasure during sex I would tell him about it...right? It would be ridiculous not to.

Of course, whether or not he chooses to do it--that is something you cannot control. And, if you're like me, emotionally entangled in it (DH is my one and only as well), you may feel a sense of loss and grief if he tells you that. It may be something that you are saddened about because you have lost the potential peak of sexual marital bliss which was wrongly taken away from you by his parents, the medical system and society. It sucks. They had no right to do it, yet they did.

I remember reading once of a woman who was born in the US with a large clitoris and inner lips...and the pediatrician at the time said they should reduce it so that it looked normal. They never told her that they had, and then as an adult she discovered it. She felt betrayed, angry, devistated and felt that her parents should not have had the right to alter her genitals (it was affecting her sex life). I don't see why these feelings shouldn't be normal for a man who is circ'd who learns that the foreskin wasn't just a flap of skin. I am serious....that is what my friends thought when I was a kid...they thought it was a senseless flap of skin with no feeling. They imagined it to be something like a skin tag or an earlobe. So, when you find all of that out...I think it is only normal and human to have those painful feelings. Somebody wronged you...and I have to say if I was in a similar situation it would really make me go through the stages of grief.

Having only been with one person, I wouldn't have bothered me at all if DH was intact when I was a teenager. It would have been part of him and I would love it. Sad to think that society and his parents apparently thought differently.

[channelofpeace]

Thank you both for your replies. Your situation with your ex-wife, Yoshua will weigh heavily in my decision to pursue this conversation or not.

I do think it might be a better idea to ease him into intactivism first, though.

Thanks for your responses!

[DahliaRW]

Milkydoula - thanks for bringing this up. I have a lot of the same questions you do. At first sex for dh and I was very painful too (well for me). I was never abused like you, but after research I realized the pain I was experiencing was most likely from his circ. I spent years feeling guilty that I didn't like sex so much and couldn't have it frequently because of that, just to find out that it's my in-laws and the doctor who circ'd dh's fault and not mine or his. It has gotten better, but still is not perfect.

I would love it if dh would want to restore. I dunno if he even knows what it is or that it is a possibility. I wondered if I should ever bring it up or not, as I'd want him to do it for himself, not for me. He is very sensitive about his circ and sometimes says he feels inadequate because of it (since we've learned so much about what it really entails when choosing to not circ our son).

Anyways, I dunno what to do either, but I think this is a great thread and I enjoy reading the opinions of men who have been circ'd on this topic. Thank you for your input.

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by DahliaRW

Milkydoula - thanks for bringing this up. I have a lot of the same questions you do. At first sex for dh and I was very painful too (well for me). I was never abused like you, but after research I realized the pain I was experiencing was most likely from his circ. I spent years feeling guilty that I didn't like sex so much and couldn't have it frequently because of that, just to find out that it's my in-laws and the doctor who circ'd dh's fault and not mine or his. It has gotten better, but still is not perfect.

I would love it if dh would want to restore. I dunno if he even knows what it is or that it is a possibility. I wondered if I should ever bring it up or not, as I'd want him to do it for himself, not for me. He is very sensitive about his circ and sometimes says he feels inadequate because of it (since we've learned so much about what it really entails when choosing to not circ our son).

Anyways, I dunno what to do either, but I think this is a great thread and I enjoy reading the opinions of men who have been circ'd on this topic. Thank you for your input.

Your situation is a bit different then the OP's thought. Your husband is anti-circ. If he is really feeling inadequate about being circed already then if you tell him you heard of people on the boards who restored their penis's and it made the sexual experiance more fulfilling for the man, you can spin it in a different light. It is the men who see 'no problem' with their circumcision that need to be walked lightly around.

Coz if you point out that there 'is' a problem when they previously thought there wasnt, then they feel like you think they aren't good enough.

If you can convincethem that they are fine the way they are, get them to be anti circ and then they wonder what they are missing? then it is safer to bring up that you heard something about 'restoring a forskin naturally, no surgery' and send them to www.norm.org or sites like that. Let them do their own research and see if they are interested on their own. Make sure that you can really upplay the fact that they will get more out of it if they do it, and you wouldn't feel any differently about their penis (IE: You will still perform all the acts you perform now, you wouldnt be grossed out in any way shape or form) but it is also ok with you if they decide to not do it at all.

Pretty much let it be their decision, let them know their personal benefits, and let them know you are ok if they don't wanna do it, but you would be more than willing to help them through the process since they would be getting more benefits out of sex.


ALSO OP, if you can manage to do all that, then you are on safer grounds.

btw: I think i am being mildly manipulated by the girlfriend.... i think I will have a talk with her

[farmer mama]

This might sound stupid.... but could you get your hands on the Pen and Teller's "Bullsh*t" show on Showtime where they debunk circumcision? We stumbled onto it while at my MILs, and dh has decided to restore after seeing how great and intact a restored penis looks. He has always been anti-circ and I have mentioned restoration, but something about seeing it really made a difference. It might be a way to start a dialogue at least. Also it helped that ds is old enough to start asking why his penis is different from dhs.

[eightyferrettoes]

Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree that restoration is a "cosmetic" issue for most people, at least not in the way that weight loss sometimes is-- after all, a fat wife doesn't make her husband's genitals hurt after they have sex.

I do agree that it's a sensitive issue, and that there's no making a man restore when he's not prepared to confront the fact that he is missing something very important.

After all, he won't restore what he thinks has no value.

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes

Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree that restoration is a "cosmetic" issue for most people, at least not in the way that weight loss sometimes is-- after all, a fat wife doesn't make her husband's genitals hurt after they have sex.

I do agree that it's a sensitive issue, and that there's no making a man restore when he's not prepared to confront the fact that he is missing something very important.

After all, he won't restore what he thinks has no value.

I said poor example, but what I was trying to get across was that you make someone feel inadequate inside by pointing something out, or you make the person feel like you think less of them because of a flaw.

Not saying it is the same, saying the reaction it would give you inside is similar.


sorry, just had to clarify.

[susienjay]

I almost could have written your post except for the sexual abuse part. I'm the only partner dh has had. I had one other before him. It was pretty short lived and we were both 19. He was also circed but I don't remember it being painful. In hindsight I think he had a loose circ and dh has a very tight one. The first 4 years dh and I were together it was so awful to be with him. It was probably a good thing I wound up pregnant the first time we did it because back then I would be in pain for days afterwards. I probably would have broken up with him at the time except that I was pregnant with our first kid. It finally got a little better after our second child was born. About a year after that I found the Men's Health article on circumcision. Ironically I found it after deciding to research circ because our best friends had just had a baby boy and circed him and encouraged us to do it if we had a boy. We had never planned to circ (dh didn't want to put the baby through something unnecessary so there had never been much discussion about it). After I found that article I begged him to consider restoring. Knowing what I do now that was probably not the best way to get him to restore. He agreed to wear the t-tapes at night for a few months. He did and it made a huge difference for me. He claims he didn't see much difference and has pretty much given up on it. I think he didn't notice because he only wore the tapes at night so he didn't keep his glans covered at all. Things are pretty good now so I don't want make him feel any worse about it than he does already. He knew how much pain I was in the first few years we were together and he feels bad about it. It really makes me angry that everything could have been so easily avoided if his parents hadn't had part of his penis chopped off to match his dad's. I occasionally ask him about restoring and he says he would do it if he could find something he could wear without tape. I can tell he has very little sensation and I think he would notice a huge difference if he could have his glans covered and loose all the keritinization on there. I've considered getting him one of the tapeless devices out there but even with the few months he wore the t-tapes he is still pretty tight so he probably doesn't have enough skin to wear any of them yet.

[Frankly Speaking]

This is a difficult problem. Since restoration is so "out there," it's difficult to get a man to even take it seriously as a topic of conversation unless he recognizes that he has a problem. If he recognizes that he has a problem, he's most likely to deny that it has anything to do with his circumcision. It just seems so preposterous at first inspection.

I think you have little chance of success until he becomes strongly anti-circumcision because he doesn't know that it has had an effect on him or at least, won't allow himself to accept it. I have an idea that might work. I haven't read the book "Sex as Nature Intended it" yet (but I have a copy on the way) but I have read the website. You might consider buying a copy of the book and leaving it on the coffee table while you're reading it and afterward for a total of maybe 3 or 4 weeks. With men's natural interest in sex, I can't imagine him not being intrigued and eventually picking it up and at least browsing through it. Just the title will be thought provoking. It may be the knob that opens the door and my understanding is that restoration is given a lot of page space in the book.

The fact of restoration is that it takes a long time and it's a hassle. No man is going to do it unless he is 100% on board with it and no amount of coaxing is ever going to make him do it. Imagine if you asked him to begin changing his underwear every time he goes to the toilet and to wash his own underwear. That's about the best comparison I can think of in the mind of a man. You want him to do this when he's been wearing the same pair of underwear all day for his entire life. He sees no benefit from changing his underwear 12 times a day. You want him to do this for the next 3 years or 1,095 days and for what? It just doesn't make sense! Why commit to all of that hassle when everything's been just fine? To him, foreskin restoration is the same thing.



Frank

[eightyferrettoes]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

I said poor example, but what I was trying to get across was that you make someone feel inadequate inside by pointing something out, or you make the person feel like you think less of them because of a flaw.

Not saying it is the same, saying the reaction it would give you inside is similar.


sorry, just had to clarify.

Ah, thanks; it seems I misread your analogy.

I'd loooove if DH would restore. He's not as vehemently anticirc as I am (falling into the "not for our kids, but whatever other people do is fine" camp) but I sense this sadness from him about his own circ, just from a few little comments he's dropped since DS's birth.

And I've talked about how uncut men produce their own lubrication and can masturbate WITHOUT a gallon of lotion; he seemed very taken aback by this idea. You could see the wheels turning in there. Slowly, because, you know, he's a man. But turning nonetheless.

I'd actually like to buy a book on it. DH is pretty wary of advice from "people on the Internet" although he'll try anything that's in a book. I guess he figures that if an idea makes it into actual hardcopy print form, it must have SOME credibility.

[njeb]

Milkydoula, you've been given a lot of good advice here, but I agree with those who say that he should already be anti-circ. before you bring up the subject of restoration. Otherwise all he's going to hear is that he's terrible in bed, which is the LAST thing you want to tell him!

Yoshua, to you. I'm so sorry that your ex made you feel so bad. That's why I'm approaching this whole topic very slowly myself; I don't want my dh to feel inadequate, either.

Frank, leaving the book Sex as Nature Intended It lying around is problematic at best, for the reason stated above. The author really paints the circ'ed male in a negative light. A male who is insecure in his sexuality and is also pro-circ. is probably the last person I'd want to read the book. Also, I tried that tactic with my own dh, and the lunkhead totally IGNORED the book! : I guess I'll have to hit him over the head with the darn book! (Just kidding).

I wish I had more answers for you. But there's no magic bullet that will make anyone's dh go, "Gee, I think I'll start restoring!" If there was, I'd tell it to you.

[channelofpeace]

Thank you all for your replies and i see now that before i delve in to something so deep and time consuming as restoring, i should get him firmly in the anti-circ camp first. I am glad that i came here first before i shot my mouth off

Any suggestions as to how to nudge him in the direction of anti-circ? He just doesn't view it as a big deal. He is really quite logical and sensible, he supports natural birthing, agreed to a homebirth and loves that i breastfeed. A pretty enlightened guy all around except about circ. Too deeply ingrained and close to home for him, i think. We don't talk about it much since it has been decided. How do i help him to see that it is a really big deal without making him feel inadequate? It is such a touchy subject and i want to "convert" him the right way. Thanks so much you guys and ladies! I love this community

[Yoshua]

id start with telling him you are appreciative that he gave way on the circ issue, but you aren't 100% happy with how he agreed just to avoid an argument.

Ask him if he wouldnt mind seeing the reasons or listening to the reasons why you dont agree with it. If he says he's not interested, you have your answer. Probably because he doesnt want to feel anything wrong with himself, and unless you want him to feel something wrong with himself then you may wanna drop it at that point. At least for a while, until you have a male offspring that he needs to learn 'why' to yell at a dr who is trying to retract. Then he has less choice and really needs to educate himself a bit.


If he says he will listen start off with statistics of how the rest of the world isnt circumsized and how america is doing it less, then go in to what is involved int he procedure, pictures and videos work well for that and then tell him how you are sad that any baby has to go through it. explain why you feel the way you feel and talk about the complications of it.

If he is like I am/was, it is at this point he will get more interested in finding out what was done to him and why, then again I dont know how old he is, i'm still fairly young and open to things, some 'older' people open up to stuff easier when they run in to a wall. Just my opinion, i could be wrong.

He will start asking questions, do yourself a favor and find the answers BEFORE he asks, and if you dont have the answers be sure you can get at them at fairly short notice.

For me, this process has taken 2 months since my current girlfriend told me that she was anti circ, but would circ if it meant the difference between having a child and not having a child or losing the man she loved in the process. The state of the family was more important to her than lifelong arguments and bitterness. I respected that, and she respected that I had a like daddy mentality and I wasnt going to change overnight.

I am at a point where I probably wont circ my own son, but I am not going to tell someone else what they can and can not do. Not my personal place or agenda. I will educate people that ask but ah well.



Remember, its been a LONG 2 months to get me to this state, so dont think you are gonna change his mind in a 20 minute session, and if he seems like he is getting uncomfortable, do yourself a favor and change the subject, If he is interested, which most people are, he will come back to it again later. Or bring up something he heard and wants to confirm.


And if he dosnt like listening to 'internet people' find real research documents to quote, with facts and statistics or books. Do the research yourself if possible.


If any of that doesnt make sense for your situation, throw it out and ignore it. Just trying to help. I am in a state of confusion right now and I find telling other people what is in my head is helping figure things out for myself.

[Pandora114]

he doesn't see it as a big deal?

go to http://www.intact.ca

Click on the video link

Sit him down
Put the headphones on him
Turn the volume up and pick the longest video, the 13min one, to show the full procedure.

Have a bucket near by in case he needs to vomit. Make sure he stays and watches the whole thing.

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by Pandora114

he doesn't see it as a big deal?

go to http://www.intact.ca

Click on the video link

Sit him down
Put the headphones on him
Turn the volume up and pick the longest video, the 13min one, to show the full procedure.

Have a bucket near by in case he needs to vomit. Make sure he stays and watches the whole thing.

Bad idea. Point blank. May even be the cause of a divorce or 2.