Vegetarians and Breastfeeding BAD COMBO!

[guestmama9924]

And the winner for best dumb a$$ breastfeeding study goes to.....
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nfants_diet_dc

[guestmama9924]

and I will post my own reply. Go between veg and vegan and breastfeed ( as well as my pregnancy) ABOVE normal baby

Studies like this really blister my bum because SO many things now adays can cause delayed development. As for the whole B vitamin thang...well I never met a veg'n that did not supplement with B vitamins in some form including myself.

And to launch a SHOCKING study like that based on 2 two incidents??! Scandal.....

[kama'aina mama]

I have to be honest, I don't see anything offensive or dumb about that article. Yes, it's a drag that they chose to focus on what is clearly a very rare situation, but there isn't any study so I'm not sure what you are upset about. I'm not sure they can be more positive than

And don't abandon breast-feeding altogether, Jefferds cautioned.Breast-feeding has many advantages, and mothers who choose to not eat
animal products should still continue to breast-feed their infants.

"Vegetarians should absolutely breast-feed, there's no question about that," she said.

Sure, I expect virtually all vegetarian and vegan moms know they need to supplement the B, but clearly some don't. Is it wrong to try to make sure those few get the word?

[guestmama9924]

I think it would be more productive to warn mothers against infant formula ...It is a dumb article because the media and the medical establishment continue to try and prove that breastfeeding has loopholes, boundaries and the potential for harm thus paving the way that formula is dependable and safe. It is all connected. Who is to say that these babies did not have a birth defect, too many vaccines or prematurity that contributed to the delays?

[Marlena]

I definitely second Kama on this one.

[owensmom]

This is the less biased of the two articles on this my dh sent me this morning. The other is here -- http://www.healthcentral.com/news/Ne....cfm?id=511533

This other article just says they are vegetarian, not vegan, and even the title makes it sound like if you are a vegetarian breastfeeder you are making your baby slow-witted.

This other article also says that one of the kids was weaned at 8 months and diagnosed with failure to thrive at 30 months. Sounds like not a fault of bf'ing, but perhaps of whatever "regular" food she was feeding the babe.

Anyway - I guess if you are vegan you should know that B12 can be a problem and deal with it. Both kids were diagnosed with failure to thrive. Does anyone know more about what that is? I've only heard of it in infants.... Both were diagnosed with it over one year.

[Hannah's Mom]

This quote in owensmom's article really bothered me (actually the tone of the whole article was offensive):

The officials are blaming it on the mothers, both of whom breast-fed their children and both of whom were vegetarians.

Just the way it's worded - Let's blame the mothers.

I also agree that it's very unclear whether the children's diets once they were started on solids might be in part to blame.

It is a dumb article because the media and the medical establishment continue to try and prove that breastfeeding has loopholes, boundaries and the potential for harm thus paving the way that formula is dependable and safe.

ITA agree Keysmama!

[guestmama9924]

I guess my points of concern with the articles are this:
Case in point- a friend, that barely breastfed, read this and said" see! I can't be worrying about my vitamins and eating perfect, B vitamins are already in formula and I don't have to worry about all that because it is taken care of"

The subtle pressures that women must remain perfectly hydrated, motivated, nourished and calm in order to properly lactate is nothing short of creating doubt and making ABM look easy.

Vegetarians and vegans are typically interested in good health and this includes vitamins. There are other reasons for B 12 deficits other than veg'n diet - gastritis, too many antacids, Graves disease, and diabetes to name a few. These 2 women were in the same town, perhaps environmental causes?

This study, like many other that focus on 'problem women' is that it was incomplete, inconclusive, subjective and questionable. And by putting that "And don't abandon breast-feeding altogether, Jefferds cautioned"....altogether??? has such a double edged sword to it.

[sleepies]

my friend breastfed and was vegetarian

her children are SUPER DUPER HEALTHY

they are big and strong and wonderful.

i think that vegetarian diets and breastfeeding can be fantastic!

they are careful to included beans, peas, and stuff to replace the meat.

but, i KNOW they can be healthy. they are healtheier and bigger and stronger than some women's babies i know that breastfeed and eat meat! and than mine.

GO VEGGIES

[Marlena]

Here's the link to the MMWR report:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5204a1.htm

edited to add the following quote from the link posted above:

Persons who follow vegetarian diets should ensure adequate cobalamin intake. The only reliable unfortified sources are animal products, including meat, dairy products, and eggs. Most naturally
occurring plant sources of cobalamin are not bioavailable; however, plant foods fortified with cobalamin, such as some cereals, meat analogs, soy or rice beverages, and nutritional yeast (7), can be
reliable and regular sources. The content of fortified food is usually listed on the food label and ingredient list. Fortified food and supplements made from cobalamin (e.g., cyanocobalamin) provide
cobalamin that is physiologically active in humans (6). Products whose labels do not specify cobalamin and list only vitamin B12 might include nonbioavailable sources. Vegetarians, particularly women
during pregnancy and lactation, should be knowledgeable about the cobalamin content of their food or seek nutritional advice. Few of the common infant-toddler cereals are fortified with cobalamin (8).
Breast milk from mothers with adequate nutritional status, infant formula, cow's milk, or a cobalamin-fortified soy or rice beverage provide a cobalamin source for infants and children. If it is not possible
to acquire the recommended dietary intake of cobalamin through food, a daily supplement should be taken that contains at least the recommended dietary intake of cobalamin from a reliable source.a

[guestmama9924]

The NotMilkMan's take on B-12 and Breastfeeding
Loved this take on the 'study'. He also has another article out on better ways for vegans to get B12 that is VERY interesting! but I will let you search his site on your own for that one!

[veganmamma]

If you're a vegan, and you eat anything packaged, that's marked vegan, or even drink soymilk, you probably get more b12 than regular vegetarians. Besides, if you are a vegan, you will learn quickly to make sure you are getting adequate nutrition or you will feel like crap. I think those studies were the kind designed to say what the experimenters wanted. KWIM? Vegans with diverse diets do not need to supplement. Animal products are NOT neccessary for survival, and in this country we have access to lots of plants from far off locations and it should be easy for any American vegan to have a healthy diet with no supplementation. Lazy vegetarians or junk food vegetarians may need to supplement.
L

[Marlena]

The study, as published in MMWR, merely notes that vegetarian and vegan breastfeeding mamas should make sure they're getting sufficient cobalamin, whether through the normal food they eat or through a supplement. Their recommendations are really very reasonable, and don't appear to be out of line with anything any of you have recommended, yourselves. There's really no need to fuss.

[gauge14iv]

Don't give this study ANY credibility! It only had a sample of TWO subjects - both babies were being followed up in genetic clinics indicating there was something worse than anything diet inflicted going on, AND the moms were both on supplements of B-12 which would negate the whole thing any way. Apparently these kids had a metabolic disorder that prevented them from utilinzing B-12 in the normal fashion.

Found a great review of this study somewhere but I will be darned if I can find the link now. It's just more bad science - sort of like the CPSC study about kids in adult beds :/

[USAmma]

I guess they didn't do any studies in India, where a good deal of the population is vegetarian and breastfed. Wonder how they managed to produce so many brilliant doctors and engineers??

Darshani

[veganmamma]

Good point Darshani!

[Marlena]

Folks, I'm just as interested in seeing breastfeeding promoted rather than detracted as you are. I'm also interested in folks getting the facts, rather than responses which may perhaps not have all the facts in order. So please let's get a few things straight.

(1) The MMWR article was not a study. It was a case report. A case report is where a health care professional sees something weird or unusual and says "gee, this is sure weird or unusual. I'll publish a story about it, in case other folks come across something similar" (or, sometimes, just for the "wow" factor, as in a recent NEJM article about objects left behind from surgery). Please don't confuse studies and case reports. They're very different.

(2) The point of the article was to say two things: (1) "gee, isn't this odd" (the medical finding, not the fact that a vegetarian was breastfeeding), and (2) "vegetarian and vegan moms who breastfeed should make sure they get enough B12 in their diet, whether through the food they eat or through supplements." There's nothing wrong with either of those points, IMO. Do any of you have a problem with either of those points? Maybe if you read the MMWR article before posting, it would help clear up any confusion in advance.

[whateverdidiwants]

Marlena - That may have been how the MMWR framed it but it was completely taken out of that context on the mainstream news articles, which is what most of us saw to begin with ( I know I saw the yahoo article first thing that morning when I went to check my email).

[momsgotmilk4two]

I'm not a vegetartian, so I don't have too much insight on this, but I wanted to add that the Southern CA LLL convention is having a seminar lead by Dr. Jay Gordon on this very subject- and he says a vegetarian diet is *better* for nursing babies

[guestmama9924]

I just saw this story again, with another spin, on the dairy educators network.

It used this 'study' as a reason for kids to drink milk and eat meat at a very early age. It cited that the mother's of the 2 in these cases weaned from breast to soy milk and veg diet.

It also said that 1 of the mothers child was 15 months old and had never walked or crawled....I found that very curious as I am sure I would have been freaking out long before 15 months if my child did not crawl.

Anyway, just another example of 2 interesting cases, that may or may not have anything to do with breastfeeding at all.