is dd (11) too young for chores?? - Page 6

[BenJulieMattzMom]

Wow no chores...well in our family this is the way i see it, I literally pay hundreds of dollars per year for them to play football, soccer, scouting, gas driving them around, arranging play dates (i don't know what the "cool" word for that is now that they're preteens), making sure the teachers are fair to them in school by staying on top of, participating in school events that usually bore me to tears, fund raisers (used to be fun but after a few years of it....well..), and well, birthday parties with friends, clothes they actually like to wear, actually i don't see a quick end to this list but you get the point. So I point out things such as these to the kids and explain that i love doing them but i need help 'cause things are expensive and the house gets crazy. We have to function as a family - all pitching in or there would be no way we could accomplish what we do now as a family (or what they do individually, not to mention the poor dogs, cats, fish that need taken care of, etc.). And they do not usually get paid, although i mean to set up an allowance soon so they can develop money managing skills on a more regular basis. Listen, I make a LOT of sacrifices for my kids - going above and beyond many other parents I know. I don't do it perfectly but this is the way it is.

However I will add, I kinda agree with some previous posts regarding that they will turn out "however" depending on their temperament no matter what my teachings are in the house cleaning department. My husband, for example, was brought up with very strict consequences for chores missed and was put to work all the time. He had to pick up his clothes and stuff or it was thrown out if found on floor, etc. So what's he like now? You DON'T want me to go there, lol. Let's just say, he is not mr. clean or mr. fix-it because he simply chooses not to I guess. I mean he is capable, was taught and all that but just doesn't want to. He's more of a binge cleaner and fixer upper I'd have to say. But, whatever, this is how it works here.

BenJulieMattzMom

[Carolinamidwife]

Originally Posted by mamarhu

Likely when they grow up, they will continue to make their own decisions about housework - doing what feels important to them. Isn't that what we all do anyway?

Looking at typical college dorm rooms, it seems that a traditional childhood with chores doesn't have much immediate impact on neatness as soon as kids are out from parental supervision. I guess that most of these kids eventually realize no one is going to clean up after them, and find their own level of comfort.

Do you think? I don't know. I feel like if I don't teach my kids while they are young that you sometimes have to do things you don't want to do where will they learn it? I had a boyfriend in college whose mom never made him do anything growing up and not only did he not have a clue about basic cleaning he was a filthy slob. His sister was the same way.

IMO we're all part of the same family and we share the same house. Housework is not my job just because I am the woman/mother but rather it is the responsibilty of our family as a community.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

ETA: Just read some more of the thread and saw that the OP has come up with a system that seems to be working. Good for you! I'll leave my post as written below for anyone interested. --Stephanie

Originally Posted by johub

A HA!
I just remembered, at 11 my DD responded well to the choices game.
We would pick a time where we had to do chores. And she woudl come to me and I would give her two options, and she woudl choose between them and complete one of them
Then she would come back to me and I woudl give her two more choices.
"Clean your bathroom counter and sink, or wash the back door window"
"put your laundry in the hamper or wipe down the front door"
This doesnt work well anymore, as she has really matured in her resistance.
But a couple of years ago it worked like a charm.

My dd is only 5, but this is how we are starting. I have "housework time" scheduled at certain points in the week. (Otherwise *I* don't get around to it! ) In addition to regular responsibilities such as clearing her place after a meal, DD (along with 3 y.o. ds, if he's not napping or at preschool) is expected to help during housekeeping time for at least the first 15 minutes. I have a "master list of housekeeping jobs" which I set out for both of us. She chooses what she wants to do, and keeps coming back for more jobs until her time is up. (Usually, she gets into it and goes longer than the 15 minutes.) The idea is that she and her brother will help more and more as they get older. By ages 9 and 11, I would expect both of them to help me for the full hour.

When I announced this new system a few months ago, I got major resistance. She whined and cried and said cleaning was "stupid". But nothing else happened until she put in her 15 minutes -- no reading, no snacks, no tv. Eventually she did it and after a couple of days she stopped complaining. Now she occassionally groans, but usually she helps willingly. I think it was easier to start this at 5 than it would have been at 11. You are probably in for much more resistance than I got. But I think it can be done.

Finally, don't be afraid of harming your relationship with her. No healthy relationship should be threatened by one person standing up and asking for help with mutual responsibilities. She may be angry and annoyed at first, but that's OK! In fact, she will probably have greater respect for you when you show respect for yourself by refusing to be the family maid. In a way, it's also disrespectful to *her* not to expect her to help out. It could send the message that 1) you don't need her help, and 2) you don't think she's capable of being responsible.

[minmoto2]

Originally Posted by Sheena

IMO we're all part of the same family and we share the same house. Housework is not my job just because I am the woman/mother but rather it is the responsibilty of our family as a community.

I totally agree. I believe it is the responsibility of all members of our family to help each other by keeping up the common use areas. I think it also reflects respect for each other by helping to keep our house clean. (i use the word 'clean' loosely & slightly dustily )

[BenJulieMattzMom]

My problem is that my dd did help with things when she was little. It's just that there's a definite attitude change that's getting worse as she's in 5th grade. Next year she'll be in middle school and i have to assume the attitude won't mysteriously go away soon. She wants to pull away and isolate - go in her room, on the computer, phone. I give her some space but not all she wants. She is still part of our family unit IMO. I have read the reasons why preteens to do this - growing up and all but I, too, want my daughter to like me. It hurts to see her pull away. And on top of that, I have to set down rules, remind her of a chore, and she complains - or throws an all out fit. I am careful about my expectations like, after school she's tired, try a chore she can do watching tv or radio. But no matter how nice I am, or try to make things easier for her, she still has a fit. I try to give her of choice of jobs. Doesn't work anymore - she has told me wants neither and whines. I am now been informed she has an allergy to dust - she gets a headache when it's stirred up somehow (her words).

I am trying to think of what she'll be willing to work towards - giving her a priveledge instead of taking away. I know she's starting to be really interested in clothes. But promising a new shirt every week would get a bit pricey. I do not want to have to go back to making charts. I will say something, I wish I had the nerve to make her do something really physical like posted before to release some of that preteen negative energy.

BTW I have a 12 soon to be 13yr old boy who doesn't complain, does clean up on his own, asks how he can help me if I am doing something, etc. If I need help with anything - he'll stop what he's doing and help. Unbelievable the difference!

[mamachandi]

Originally Posted by Shann

I don't believe in MAKING a kid do ANY chores. The way I and my siblings were raised is that we weren't asked or required to do anything around the house unless we chose to (which we almost never chose to do). So we are raising our 2 sons the same way. If they decide on their own to do chores, they can. If they don't then that's OK too. Neither of them clean their rooms very often unless it just gets so bad even they can't stand it. Most of the time the rooms just never get cleaned, but that is OK, because it's THEIR space, not ours. Our oldest (12) sometimes (on rare occasions) will do a small chore, but our youngest (age 10) never does anything. And we don't ask or hassle them about it.

heres what I see wrong with this. In many cultures (not american) children HAVE to help out, they are MADE to, sometimes it is vital to the household. In this way they learn about life. In the early years the children are mimicking the parents by sweeping,pretending to cook or take care of a baby, hammering etc. They want to be just like us! Later,They learn to take care of things for/with the family earning respect from everyone in the house and then learning to give respect back gaining integrity and building character.
For example: We go to Jamaica every year or so. We stay in the mountains, a country, village farmers and the like. It is very poor,rural but a lovely community,beautiful,quiet and safe. we watch every morning (around 5-6am) the little children walking with buckets to get water from the stream to take it back so parents can make breakfast,wash up etc. sometimes you will see them carrying clothes to be washed by the stream all before they head off to school..after school they watch the little ones so mom can get dinner made or whatever..anyway I think this naturally how it should be.
I think this way of life (not having made your children help out) is very eletist in that its saying "my sweet child will not be made to clean how lowly is that?!" perhaps most of these families have a housekeeper so mum doesn't have to do it either? then when they grow up they have the same attitude. In Jamaica it is known as 'stupid americans' they watch as the americans
don't clean up after themselves in the least (they stay in cabins where some work is done by the renters(dishes,sweeping etc). This phrase is common all around the world 'stupid americans' and it isn't just because of our politics kwIm? Please don't do this to your children.
PS I am well aware of the consept of consentual living I just don't think it should apply to doing your share of the housework...

[mamachandi]

Oh by the way- thank you for all the great suggestions!! I am watching/reading all the posts! This is great!~C

[Electra375]

I grew up outside of the US and this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.

[Carolinamidwife]

this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

yeah, that!

[Shenjall]

this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.

Another one agreeing.....

I really see this in my sister. Its frightening how much I see it....

[mamameg]

I, for one, know that I don't do things exactly like my mom would do them, and I have no expectation that my children will do things just as I would once they are grown and out of the house. But while they are living here and contributing to the daily messes of life, they will be contributing to the dialy clean up of life, as well. If they do it on their own, great! All the better! But I will not be the maid just because they don't feel like doing anything.

Shann, I'm curious... how much do your kids end up helping out on their own? Are they naturally helpful or do you just do everythnig if they don't feel like helping?

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by Electra375

I grew up outside of the US and this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.

I just don't believe you're teaching the right things by forcing anyone to do anything. Just like I wouldn't teach math or reading by force. I believe teaching about housework, responsiblity to the household, etc. is best done by guiding and example. I think those of us that are saying we don't make our children do chores, are not saying we don't teach our kids how to do housework, or help them learn to be a responsible part of a household and community. I think those are very important things that I do teach my children. I just believe that there are better ways to learn than being made to do something-- in fact I believe that takes away from the lesson you are trying to impart.

I am surprised that this is such a radical view on MDC-- that one can teach without forcing.

[mamameg]

I don't think it's such a radical view. It's just that I know my DSS would do NOTHING if I left it up to him. Maybe those who subscribe to the "don't force them" just have kids who are naturally more helpful than those who are saying we have to force them or we just end up doing it all? I would LOVE to live by the no force method, but I would end up doing it all myself, and that's just not an options I'm willing to entertain.

Interesting thread...

[Carolinamidwife]

LMBO. If I didn't "force" my kids now and then they would both live in their pajamas, never leave the house, and eat snacks all day. I think non-coercive parenting is fine if it works for you but I don't believe it is a law of AP.

[sunnysideup]

Maybe those who subscribe to the "don't force them" just have kids who are naturally more helpful than those who are saying we have to force them or we just end up doing it all?

I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it. So, there are times I let things go, and there are times I do things myself. But, for the most part, we all help each other out with the housework.

[mamameg]

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it.

I don't disagree with this, and maybe it would be more applicable to me if my circumstance were a bit different. As it is, my DSS is almost 14 and has been living with us for almost 2 yrs. His mother had/has NO expectations of him to do ANYTHING and so he just doesn't have any expectations of himself. Ironically, the only part of the house he does care about is his room - if it gets too messy, he will get frustrated and go on a cleaning spree. But when it comes to doing anything around the common areas of the house, he couldn't care less.

I'm constantly trying to figure out how to make it all less of a struggle, so I apprecaite the differing view points being discussed here. Unfortunately, I feel like I am not in a situation with him where I can just let him naturally help out, as he just wasn't raised like that by his mom. Even now, when he goes to her house for the weekend, he comes back with more sourness about doing even simple things for himself because she just does it all for him. So when he returns to our house, we are just awful, mean parents who make him do unreasonable things like put his glass in the dishwasher or pick up his dirty socks. It's frustrating.

[mamachandi]

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it. So, there are times I let things go, and there are times I do things myself. But, for the most part, we all help each other out with the housework.

I am curious- Shann and sunnyside up-Do yours (or anyone else who believes in non coersive parenting's kids) naturally help out, without you asking them to??

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by chandraj

I am curious- Shann and sunnyside up-Do yours (or anyone else who believes in non coersive parenting's kids) naturally help out, without you asking them to??

Sometimes they do things without my asking, sometimes I ask.

[mamameg]

sunnysideup - So when you ask, how do they respond? Do they happily agree most of the time? Do they ever say no? How do you respond if they say no?

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by mamameg

sunnysideup - So when you ask, how do they respond? Do they happily agree most of the time? Do they ever say no? How do you respond if they say no?

Usually my requests are very reasonable and the kids are pretty agreeable. Of course, there are times that they say no, and my response depends on the situation. I try to be respectful. They usually have a reason for saying no-- often it's just that they're busy with something else, and we can work out another time to do the task, or someone else will offer to do it. Or maybe the task is just too overwhelming or difficult and they need help (this happened with shoveling after the snow storm we had yesterday morning, it was just too much work for one person). I love the book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen... The authors have great suggestions for "creating a climate of respect in which the spirit of cooperation can grow." Their advice for engaging cooperation (works with husbands as well as kids ):
1. Describe the problem
2. Give information
3. Say it with a word
4. Talk about your feelings
5. Write a note

I expect everyone in the family to want to cooperate and be respectful. If they are not, I assume there is a reason and we try to resolve it. I see it as my job (and my husband's) to help the kids learn how to be a part of a cooperative household. If they don't know how to pick up after themselves, clean a bathroom, or do laundry (just some examples), I assume they need better help learning--not punishments. We also keep in mind that we all have times we just don't feel like cleaning, dh and I have our days like this so why not the kids too? we can let things go occasionally.