Chicken Pox Vaccine - do I understand this correctly?

[chlobo]

As I've read the main reason the chicken pox vaccine made it onto the schedule in the US was an economic one. The powers that be made a calculation of the cost of lost productivity for parents who missed work due to taking care of a sick child. This cost was greater than the cost to vax all children so they decided to add it to the schedule.

I've recently read some really interesting information about unintended consequences of the chicken pox vax.

1. As a result of the chicken pox vax the incidence of shingles is rising. They believe this is happening because in order for chicken pox immunity to last a lifetime the person needs regular re-exposure to wild chickenpox. Therefore, adults who have had chickenpox are not be re-exposed and at higher risk for shingles. Additionally, folks who have been vaccinated will find their immunity waning for the same reason (thus debunking the myth that this vaccine confers lifelong immunity as seen in Japan).

2. As a result of the increased shingles there are now other economic factors to consider for widespread use of the vax. That is you need to consider the economic cost of caring for all the additional shingles cases.

3. Now, with increased shingles, there is a reason for the shingles vax.

Do I understand this? If so, this is one of the stupidest vaxes out there. And what baffles me is that people who have their children get it are now saying how dreadful chickenpox really are and they are so glad their children can get the vax. Sheeple.

[DoubleOven]

:

[Gitti]

Do I understand this?

You understood it perfectly.

And what baffles me is that people who have their children get it are now saying how dreadful chickenpox really are and they are so glad their children can get the vax. Sheeple.

I have a hard time with that too. Because many people had the CP and would remember that it was not that big of a deal.

:

[chlobo]

Well one mom I was talking to said that if she could spare her child from disease she would do it (by getting the vaccine), which seemed to imply that she'd be on board with whatever jab comes her way.

[Gitti]

I know a 40 y. old guy who is always getting every new vaccine, booster, and can't wait to get the avian or SARS vax or whatever they might bring on the market. He's done that ever since he was a fairly young guy. I've talked to him about it but his main concern was to 'stay healthy and prevent disease'.


Just a few weeks ago I heard he was diagnosed with MS. Wonder whether there is a connection?

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by chlobo

As I've read the main reason the chicken pox vaccine made it onto the schedule in the US was an economic one.

Yes, I believe the main reason it made it onto the recommended schedule was an economic one. A guaranteed money maker for pharma.

Just like the Hepatitis A vaccine, which was just recently universally recommended. The Hep. A vaccine will soon be on every state's mandated list of vaccines for school entry.

Yes, Hepatitis A and varicella . . . a national crisis.

[Smithie]

I am really, really worried that the stupid varicella vax is going to make shingles an even worse problem than it already is. Shingles is a HORRIBLE disease.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by Smithie

I am really, really worried that the stupid varicella vax is going to make shingles an even worse problem than it already is. Shingles is a HORRIBLE disease.

There's a shingles vaccine (Zostavax) that has been submitted for approval. It should be approved very shortly as a matter of fact. There's also another in development.

[Smithie]

Heh. I wonder if they'll start innoculating old people for shingles to protect them from their varicella-vaxed grandkids...

[Jen123]

NO>>>>they'll prolly give it to kids so they don't spread it to the grandparents....ya know....herd immunity.

[dingogirl]

I know a 40 y. old guy who is always getting every new vaccine, booster, and can't wait to get the avian or SARS vax or whatever they might bring on the market.

i'm sorry i'm laughing, but i had this picture in my head of this crazed man running to the doc begging to be vaccinated, like some junky.

i am sorry to hear he has ms though.

[suschi]

Adding to the enormous stupidity of this vaccine, that economic claim went right out the window when the vaccine proved to be quite ineffective, kids are still getting chickenpox in spite of being vaccinated, mild to severe, they are still going to miss school and parents are still going to miss work.

Now why are they still giving this vaccine? And now will be adding a 2nd dose....

[LongIsland]

Dr. Salisbury reported the U.K.’s more cautious approach, to avoid potentially increased zoster rates, shifting case rates into older age groups, and considerations of cost/benefit. They have had sophisticated economic and mathematical modeling done on the latter (tools he recommended), that clarified for him the complexity of the related questions. However, he could not share the results as these had not yet been published.

I'm very interested in seeing the results of this model.

[LongIsland]

There is nothing on the agenda for next month's meeting regarding universal second dose varicella. That's because the HPV and rotavirus are going to be the next to make it on the recommended list.

However, that second dose varicella will ultimately make it on there. Oh yeah . . . it'll make it on eventually. They didn't approve the Varivax second dose for nothin.

[DevaMajka]

There is info on shingles in the Varivax [Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Oka/Merck)] insert http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...arivax_pi.pdf:
it says "The long term effect of VARIVAX on the incidence of herpes zoster, particularly in those vaccinees exposed to natural varicella, is unknown at present.
In children, the reported rate of herpes zoster in vaccine recipients appears not to exceed that previously determined in a population-based study of healthy children who had experienced natural varicella.5,18,19 The incidence of herpes zoster in adults who have had natural varicella infection is higher
than that in children.20"

but this stuff is the most interesting:
"There are insufficient data to assess the rate of protection against the complications of chickenpox (e.g., encephalitis, hepatitis, pneumonia) in children."

and this:
"Although no placebo-controlled trial was carried out with VARIVAX using the current vaccine, a placebo-controlled trial was conducted using a formulation containing 17,000 PFU per dose.4,8"
btw, the current formulation is:
"VARIVAX, when reconstituted as directed, is a sterile preparation for subcutaneous administration. Each 0.5 mL dose contains the following: a minimum of 1350 PFU (plaque forming units) of Oka/Merck varicella virus when reconstituted..."

[mamakay]

To gauge the likely compliance with a second dose vaccination, a study was done of 550 randomly selected general pediatricians (289 responses) and 550 family physicians (233 responses) between April and June 2005. The study population was profiled.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
Wow I hate these people.
So, in a nutshell, the problem with a second dose of the CP vax is getting doctors to buy the idea that they need to get patients to accept it?

[HeartsOpenWide]

I was not vax, got chicken pox when I was about six or seven so it was really mild. My SIL was vaxed when she was ten and it wore off. Ended up getting it just a few months about (she is twenty) and was ticked that her parents gave her the vax, said she would have rather gotten it as a kid (you know the chicken pox partys...)

[LilithX]

Oh, this is one of my biggest pet peeves! Yes, ITA, one of the STUPIDEST vaccines out there (and that is saying a lot, in my book

The CDC admitted back in 96 that ALL these serious consequences were possible to probable or unknown, yet they recomended it anyway?? Gee, good to know the government agencies charged with looking out for our best interests/protecting public health are doing their job so well

And isn't it just perfect that Mereck, the maker of the CP vax, now rushes to the rescue with a SHINGLES vax (which is merely a 14 times strongler dose of the CP vax, hardly any R&D costs to recoup there, folks, just many millions of doses to be sold indefinately, since they don't know how long IT will last, either) to "solve" the problem their other product created?

Did not realize the hep A had been added to the schedule. Great.

I have thought that the reason the second dose of CP vax has been delayed/not recommended yet is that they are waiting on the new combo MMRV vax, which will cover the second dose.

Something that bugs me though, is that I have read studies/info stating that the CP vax, if given near or at the same time as MMR, is much less effective.
I have seen this practice cited as one of the explanations, along with CP vax given too young, for CP vax failure/waning.

So have they resolved this issue or not? Just going to go ahead and give MMR and CP in one shot and ignore the implications? Not considered a problem since they plan on introducing a THIRD dose of CP down the line? Anyone have any info on this aspect?

(from the notes cited above:"Dr. Poland saw no compelling reason to issue a recommendation at this point, since MMRV may be available within months. He questioned on what
basis there should be confidence that two doses would solve the problem of waning immunity.")

Also from the citation above: "..waning VE implies that 3-5 doses may be necessary over a lifetime. There may be another solution to waning immunity than multiple doses, such as developing a more potent dose, as with the shingles vaccine."

Uh, there is yet ANOTHER solution to waning immunity, which has proven itself in many millions over many decades: NATURAL IMMUNITY from a childhood case of the illness!

Idiots.

Lilith, 40 (immune to CP since age 6)
Mom to John, 13 (immune since age 3)
Sage, 6 (non-immune since she's been deprived of contracting it thus far thanks to the vaccine, despite its high failure/waning rates)

[suschi]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

There is nothing on the agenda for next month's meeting regarding universal second dose varicella. That's because the HPV and rotavirus are going to be the next to make it on the recommended list.

However, that second dose varicella will ultimately make it on there. Oh yeah . . . it'll make it on eventually. They didn't approve the Varivax second dose for nothin.

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that for a minute, it's not a matter of if, just a matter of when. Because a 2nd MANDATED dose will generate $$$$ for the drugmaker and make the stockholders happy. And the main purpose here is not the health of our children, but the lining the pockets of and keeping stockholders happy and wealthy and, well, 2 out of 3 anyway.