I'm getting stressed out :(

[BetsyPage]

I told dh that my hostility/frustration level is SOOO HIGH right now, it's got to be hormonal! As I am working through my birth plan and thinking about issues related to that I keep running into things that make me want to scream "This is just sooooo stupid!!!! Aghhh!!!!" :

Just in the past day, issues that are stressing me out and annoying... I'm sure many here can sympathize:

-Apparently in Michigan I cannot decline the erythomicin (sp?) eye ointment without a COURT INJUCTION according to my midwife!!! Isn't that stupid?

-I have a 2 yo dd that I was hoping to have stay with me overnight if I had to stay overnight at the hospital, along with my dh of course... but my MW tells me that I will be transferred to a TINY room in the mother-baby until 2 hours after birth (after the recovery period) because they have LDR rooms.

-The only reason I am even considering staying a full 24 hours after birth when my preference would be to leave ASAP (within a reasonable period, avoiding an extra night stay if possible) is because of the genetic testing... the hospital REQUIRES that you get the heel stick done before you leave, even if it less than 24 hours after birth... but the test is not VALID less than 24 hours after birth!!! So this is totally pointless, grrrr. I understand the value of this test, I want to have it done, just not twice which it was with my dd, since I was discharged 20 hours PP (my choice.) I "had" to go the next morning at 8:30 a.m. and get it done by an incompetent nurse who made me dd scream hysterically for 30 minutes... she then got home and slept for 8 hours straight and I could not wake her, during which time my milk came in and I got horribly engorged, and she couldn't latch on... then we had nursing problems that went on for a week trying to get her to latch. *sigh*. It was horrible. So I'm hoping to avoid that scenario again by not traumatizing dd#2 unnecessarily, but I am soooooo sad at the thought of being separated from dd#1 and dh if I have to stay overnight. I just don't know what to do.

OK, this was a huge vent, really, but if anyone has any suggestions for me, I'd love to hear them... especially about whether the eye ointment issue is true here in MI, I'm having a hard time tracking down that info.

I just want to have an intervention-free, low-stress birth in the hospital, and I hate that it seems so hard and I feel like I'm going to have to fight about stuff. At least I have a very supportive doula, and I think my MWs are pretty understanding. I guess I'm just going to have to pick my battles.

Oh, one other stress... trying to find a no-vax friendly doctor... all the ones around here don't seem to be accepting new patients!

[PheobNFam]

Boy... I got more stressed just by reading your post.

I'm sorry you're having all these issues. I am so grateful to be giving birth in the birth center that I am. I am really happy with that decision. I have no birth related stress right now.

But I'm stressed over other things. I am trying to get the website for my company Cloth Thoughts up and going, but things just keep coming up. And I think I'm pushing myself too hard. I'd originally wanted it up tomorrow. Now it's going to have to wait until Wednesday. Grrrr.... So... yeah. That's my stress.

I just want to relax!

[JefsJen]

aww, you guys. Sorry you are stressed. I have periods when I am like that. Just like day before yesterday I was chewing DH out about .... say it together now... "NOTHINGGGG!". One of those, you feel so stupid about it and everything you said later on...but the hurt was done.

What about a homebirth for you? Are you wanting a hospital birth? I know there are many things this time around that I am having to write down and keep up with so I can REMEMBER them, like finding the doc, like you said. I don't know of any personally, but I think my midwife does... I have to sign some type of waver for the eye meds, I think, and the vitamin K. maybe its just the vit K. anyway, I hope that you can soon relax and find your way through some of this stress. Search the internet, or better yet, go to the Find Your Tribe area on this site and look for your state and see if anyone can recommend a doc for you. In fact, I just remembered tha'ts what I did...I had just totally forgotten about it until now! LOL Pregnancy brain! Gotta love it! Thankfully, only like 8 more weeks of it! LOL

[AllisonK]

Sorry you are so stressed!! Think about a Home birth???? I don't know anything about Michigan, I do know here in WA it is state law to have the eye goop and the vit K but you can decline/sign a refusal of consent form to have it not done. I would definately ask on the board for your area here, they may know something. Or talk to other moms in your area who are similar minded and see what they say.
Allison

[nighten]

BetsyPage, I responded to you about the eye ointment in the other thread, but here's the gist of it.

You can refuse ANY medial procedure on religious grounds -- you have to have it in writing AHEAD of time (a birth plan should suffice) and present it to the hospital staff ahead of time but you do not need a court injunction. If you happen to know a lawyer, s/he can add a note for you stating you are aware of your rights as a patient and a parent, etc., but that's not necessary.

You can always tell the m/w YOU want to be the one to "administer" the ointment and then simply miss. That way she's not liable.

But I'm going to flat out refuse it. Call the hospital ahead of time and ask if they have specific waiver forms you can fill out ahead of time. If they don't, then create your own or include in the bith plan.

If you need help coming up with wording for the religious bit, I can help you. (You can address both the issues of the eye ointment itself causing potential harm to your child, as well as its use in effect condoning a lifestyle of promiscuity on your part, therefore negating your ability to be the Christlike role model for your child, etc.)

I'm sure your mw was TOLD you have to have a court order because the doctors who trained her want her to be as covered as they are in terms of liability.

But it's (pardon my french) bullshit that they have lowered such interventions all to the crappiest levels -- assuming everyone has an STD so requiring eye ointment is offensive, honestly. I mean it would suck to have an STD but I was tested at the beginning of my pg and was negative for everything, and as such the eye ointment is an unnecessary intervention so I'm refusing it. (And will be talked about as the crazy religious lady at the hospital I'm sure but I don't care. Anything to keep them from cramming crap into my child.)

Anyway here's a link to the Michigan stuff for you -- it doesn't address the ointment but it's got great info for the rest:

http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/michigan.htm

Can't help with the rooming in for the toddler thing, but I'm with you on the 24hour heel stick. Sigh.

[Enudely]

stress

This is my first pregnancy and I have just been stressed out for no reason! I'm trying to stay very centered and calm, quiet mind, doing yoga, etc, but it seems the challenge is 10 fold with all the hormones raging through my system. I've also started grinding my teeth again (a stress reaction I haven't really done much since college!). My life is not that stressful right now, I think it's just the hormones! The main thing I stress about is house work!! Any suggestions?

[BetsyPage]

Thanks so much for the replies and encouragement!

I do have a positive update... after searching threads here I found out another member (wasabi) was in my situation with the eye ointment at the same hospital with the same midwives- and it turns out that there is a standard religious exemption for that the hospital has, and they just had to sign it, no problem!!! So I will be able to avoid getting a "court injunction" after all. Times like this I am so happy to have MDC, it's amazing what you find out here! So thanks for mentioning the religious exemption, Nighten...

I'd love to have a homebirth, but honestly, dh isn't comfortable with it. It *does* irk me, though, because this birth will cost us probably as much as a HB out-of-pocket b/c we have a high deductible, and with the pregnancy occurring in 2005 and 2006 we are having to meet it twice. Grrr. Anyway, that's another story. I do feel like if I can get all these details taken care of and get a good birth plan in place I'll do ok with a hospital birth- my doula informs me that if it is in writing and all my i's are dotted and t's are crossed, I shouldn't be "hassled" about anything. Which will make for a much happier laboring mama!!!

[sdmoose]

stressed

I don't know...I have a slightly different take on the whole issue. It seems that you have to decide what battles are worth fighting and those that perhaps are not. OF course your goal is to have a healthy baby and a positive birth experience. The details of that outcome may have to be flexible. This is why I'm not writing out a strict birthplan. I trust my midwife, my doula, and my husband as my support system. (I think the book "Birthing from within" does not promote writing out a rigid birth plan...it may result in you being more rigid than you need to be in labor). It may not be worth getting all stressed about some things that in the end will not alter the goal of a healthy baby and positive birth experience. IT is great if you can get a religious exemption. I also understand why the hospital and states have the rules they do. If we could trust everyone and rely on a recent gonorrhea/chlamydia tests that would be great, but the consequences of MISSING a positive can mean blindness in the newborn. It is sort of like how I felt with the mandatory HIV test they require at the initial OB visit. I knew there was no way I was positive....and thought it was a waste of money that they did it. Oh well....
Yeah....it would be great if you could do a homebirth, then you would not have to make any accomodations to the "rules and regs" of a hospital. I also hope that your midwife and the hospital will be as accomodating to you as they can....good luck.

[BetsyPage]

Sort of scratching my head here...

I don't really feel the need to defend my decision to not have certain procedures done. Basically sdmoose I don't know quite how to respond because you have one post, and it's not even clear if you are a member of this due date club?

It's a matter of informed consent, honestly. I am informed and I know that I am "low risk" for STDs and HIV, both. I fully understand the choices I am making for me and my baby, and I should have the ability to decline procedures that are not necessary and potentially harmful. 'Nuff said. If you actually are a member of this ddc I look forward to reading your introduction.

[AdinaL]

Um...if we could trust everyone to be STD free?

What???

Enforcing prodecures on EVERY pregnant woman because someone, somewhere might lie and endanger their baby is the WRONG way to go about it.

It is totally a CYA thing for the hospital, has nothing to do with their patients' best interests.

No testing is mandatory BTW. I refused the HIV test. I started with an OB.

I am glad you got it all figured out. I am having a homebirth - so I am not worried about it, but I refused all sorts of things while I was with my OB. Routine doesn't make it right.

[hairpin]

Originally Posted by AdinaL

No testing is mandatory BTW. I refused the HIV test. I started with an OB.

I'm so glad I learned early on at my OB's office that everything was my choice. So glad my doctor's office was upfront about letting me know these are choices. It makes it all a lot less heated.

[nighten]

We're just calling it a "Birth Preference" rather than a Birth Plan, but I will be filling out all paperwork waivers ahead of time in terms of the non-negotiables.

I understand sdmoose's point but Birthing from Within is a huge advocate of communicating your birth wishes VERY clearly (they even have copies of the little sign you can hang on the door of your L&D room to ask they not offer drugs, etc.), so I'm not sure that's the book you meant to reference?

They also talk about really sad birth stories and women with pain and regret over not having thought out clearly what they wanted in terms of a birth experience. Honestly I don't remember too much from it because it depressed the hell out of me at the time (I read it first trimester). It had some good ideas but it also focuses a lot on regret, it seems. *shrugs* I'm trying to AVOID that by having a list ahead of time of things I will and will not refuse.

I understand that the more rigid you are in terms of planning, the most surprised you might be by things that crop up, but that doesn't mean you should not decide ahead of time if there are things you definitely want or do not want (for instance, I do not want an episiotomy. Period. Unless the baby is in distress and we've already tried position changes, etc. Other than that, I'd rather tear. And I'm stating that in my birth preference.)

Anyway, my midwife told me it wasn't necessary for me to have a birth plan if we went over everything ahead of time -- but it's not for her benefit, it's for mine and my baby's. And what if something happens and she's not there? What if one of her other patients goes into labor right before me? Not all women are lucky enough to have a midwife who's on call 24/7 either -- so birth plans are not only prudent, they're necessary to ensuring clear communication with the caregiver.

My DH is wonderful, but this is our first child and I am not going to count on him to remember everything because he'll be very caught up in the moment -- just like I will.

My doula does not have the legal right to speak on my behalf.

Therefore I want things in writing ahead of time. It's smart.

And there are negotiable things but there are also some non-negotiables, especially when it comes to my CHILD, and those include:

1. Hep B vaccine
2. Vit K shot
3. Eye ointment

I am refusing all three of them, and will state that clearly in the birth preference as non-negotiable. Period. But we're going to the hospitals for tours this weekend and next week (will likely have the baby at the women's center but are touring the downtown high risk facility too just in case) and will pick up registration forms and waivers while there.

If there's any issues with for instance the Vit K shot, there is an oral version available off the web for $20 that we can order and bring with us. I'm going in prepared.

Bottom line is I don't think we should have to defend our choices either but in today's society, we're forced to because of the crappy medical "cover your ass" system, and as such, I'm prepared to be the most religious person walking the planet to keep my child from undergoing unnecessary and potentially harmful interventions.

[BethSLP]

I am so sorry you guys are going through all this.

It seems odd however that your DH is not comfortable with a homebirth, but clearly must agree with you on all the LAME policies and procedures of a hospital (which is what turned DH and I off from a hospital birth immediately).

Having worked in a hospital, I can't totally get angry with them because that is simply the policy of a huge organization who has a million other considerations (including liability) to deal with.

My personal feeling is that these kind of things unfortunately come with the territory when you choose to birth at a hospital. Its almost as though you are subscribing to their philosophy by choosing to birth there in the first place. Does that make sense? To me, the reason people birth in a hospital is because they feel the technology may be necessary on some level. Its then difficult to pick and choose which technology is necessary and which isn't when they have their "protocols."

Although I found getting the HIV test annoying, I think I would require it if I were a MW too. They are drawing blood for labs anyhow, so what's the big deal?

In the end you just have to pick your battles. I am very much like you, and I knew for me, the hospital would be a nightmare. I'd have signs posted everywhere "no vax, no formula, no circ" etc. Not worth it. Not the time I want to be fighting someone.

Perhaps if all goes well this time around, your DH may be more confident about a homebirth in the future......

Glad to hear about the religious exemption, etc. Sounds like it will all work out after all!

best of luck to you!!
XOXO
Beth

[AdinaL]

There is a lot of confusion regarding the HIV test being taken while pregnant. Including the risk of false positives. That was something I was unwilling to risk. I KNOW I am negative. However, if the test comes back saying something, then I have a whole different battle to fight. Which includes a doctor wanting to medicate me for something I don't have.

Prior to being married, I was religious about getting an HIV test when appropriate. (Six months after a new partner, or after old partner cheated on me). So I am not against them, and I know that married, with one partnern for 7 years, I am low risk.

For me getting the blood typing and Heb B titre done was no biggie. So I did it. I was prettty sure I didn't have Hep B...but if I had to deliver in the hospital it would keep me from having to give my kid the Hep B shot. It is about picking battles, but knowing the potential outcomes (false positive for HIV=doctor trying to force meds - or - failing GTT=being labeled high risk, pressure for c/s, having to take insulin) is crucial in knowing while hill to die on.

[nighten]

Plus, for us homebirth isn't an option -- we can't afford it. Our insurance doesn't cover it and DH would lose it completely if I seriously suggested it. We live on the backside of a mountain and if anything happened...

Besides, he works at the hospital so I'm hoping that'll help us in terms of making things a little less crazy? (It's helping in terms of cost, etc.)

I don't mind the tests -- though I totally understand why some folks refuse them -- but what I do mind are interventions.

If I had GD then I'd want to know, so I'm having the test. If I had an STD, I'd sure as hell want to know, so I was fine with having the tests (even though I too had been tested prior to marriage, etc., and knew they'd be negative, but insurance paid for it and they had to draw the blood anyway, so I was fine with it).

My prob is not that they want to test me -- it's that they want to be "proactive" with my CHILD based upon the assumption that I was somehow lacking in terms of nutrition or lifestyle during pg, or that I will be lacking as a parent to this child.

They can kiss my ass.

Yes, I expect there to be some battling with a hospital birth but I'm high risk (BPD and age) and a home birth isn't an option, so research and preparedness is my best defense, thus the "Birth Preferences" with waivers pre-signed.

Oh, and we're bringing boxed chocolates for the nursing staff. I hear presents help....

[celestialdreamer]

.

[nighten]

Originally Posted by celestialdrmrmama

Don't kid yourself that a piece of paper with your 'preferences' and some candy is going to make it all how you want (or even remotely close). Sorry if this sounds rude at all, that is not my intention, I just hate to see someone else go through what I did. If you had a hospital birth like what I had or some of the women in BFW had, you'd understand what I'm talking about.

Wow -- that does sound rude. Just because you had a bad time of it, I should just give up? I should not even bother with communicating my wishes?

What would you have me do?

I can't have a homebirth and I'm busting my ass to prepare for all possibilities and my own personal non-negotiables are for my CHILD not for me. (Vit K shot, eye ointment, Hep B.)

The only "non-negotiable" for ME is the episiotomy. And even then it's not entirely non-negotiable because if the baby's in distress then I'll have it.

The rest are PREFERENCES. Please don't mock what I'm calling it -- there's a reason I'm calling it that -- because I am aware that things change.

I don't get it Instead of offering up some gloom and doom pronouncement how about some usable advice? I'm sorry you had a crappy experience but that doesn't mean everyone else who writes a birth plan and gives birth in a hospital will.

I've made all the proactive choices I can make short of a homebirth (which is not feasible) and I really don't see how educating myself and then expressing my preferences is "sticking my head in the sand."

I HOPE to have a natural birth with no interventions but I am prepared in case that doesn't happen. Will I be disappointed if that doesn't happen? Probably, yes. But if the baby's safe then that's all the matters in the end.

If the baby goes into distress and I have to have a c/s? Or if I develop pre-eclampsia and have to be induced? It would suck but I'm prepared just in case. I hope that doesn't happen but I'm prepared. Thus I have a preference to how the birth will go, but am aware that things can change.

And being prepared for the worst case scenario should not negate nor dismiss my PREFERENCES (hopes and plans) for this birth. Nor does it mean that I shouldn't at least attempt to communicate those preferences to the staff at the hospital where I'll be going. And by golly if someone gave me candy I'd remember them. Anything to HELP make this birth go smoothly, I'm a fan of. Plese don't mock my attempts to do that.

I'm sorry if my reaction is harsh but for a first time mother, I'm doing the best I can in the situation I'm in and having someone so callously and flippantly dismiss my efforts is at the least, pretty darn thoughtless.

(Sorry to hijack the thread with my response but I'm floored and really upset now. I started off trying to be encouraging and reassuring to the OP who was stressing out, and now I'm really upset. sigh)

[celestialdreamer]

.

[BetsyPage]

Becca and nighten- *hugs*! I understand what you are both saying. I think for those of us who do find themselves planning a hospital birth the best thing we can do is be really prepared and make choices ahead of time- I agree if you haven't thought about it, then there may be regret later... at the same time, it is harder to get the birth you want in an institutional setting even if you know what you want- I know that and it's why I'm stressed. But I don't want my stress to make things worse.

I wanted to respond to this...

My personal feeling is that these kind of things unfortunately come with the territory when you choose to birth at a hospital. Its almost as though you are subscribing to their philosophy by choosing to birth there in the first place. Does that make sense? To me, the reason people birth in a hospital is because they feel the technology may be necessary on some level. Its then difficult to pick and choose which technology is necessary and which isn't when they have their "protocols."

Yep, I totally have the feeling of "I'm using your space, but please just keep out of it," and realize this could be offensive or annoying or against protocol or whatever. The homebirth issue is one that I have really, really struggled with. Y'all don't know how much I would LOVE to have a homebirth, and this desire has increased over time during my pregnancy. My dh is an odd duck- he really is anti-medical (his family are Christian Scientists, he didn't even take an OTC med until almost 30 and still avoids such things) but he is also very, very "traditional" and I think that is why every time I brought up a homebirth possibility he said no. (he's not very crunchy!) It takes him a long time to reconsider issues like this, and if this had been a planned pregnancy (we were going to wait another year) I think I could have gotten him over to the homebirth side, as I think he would have worked through everything and all his "objections" and such. As it is, I think with some discussion right now he would be OK with it, except we've already spent $1000 meeting our deductable for care (though we have to spend another $1000 in 2006), and we just don't have the finances or time to make the change.

This will (I hope!) not be our last baby, though, and I feel confident that I can get dh to reconsider for baby #3, especially if he sees me have a natural birth in a hospital setting and realizes what a hassle it is to go to the hospital.

Thanks for all the replies, this thread has been very helpful for me.

[celestialdreamer]

I deleted both of my previous posts on this thread because they caused another mama alot of unneccessary stress and upset My apologies, I did not mean to do that at all, I was just trying to share my experiences and apparently I have a crappy way of explaining it I hope I didn't upset anyone else.

Just to clarify: I definitely think it is possible to have a wonderful hospital birth experience and I hope those of you who are planning one get to have that.