how long for a time out for a 22 mo old?

[starbarrett]

My 22mo old is at this very second on her "naughty seat". She turned 2 a couple days ago, emotionally that is. =) So I've been putting her there for 3 minutes, but I don't think it's having an impact. She doesn't seem to mind. Should I do longer?

[georgia]

Amber, I don't think that spending more time in a situation that's not working is the solution. I would like to share this article by Peggy O'Mara. It was such an inspiration to me the first time I had an almost two year old Hope you find it helpful, too!

Peggy O

I'd love to know what you think

[umsami]

I think two minutes is usually enough for a 2 year old... if the time out is going to work. As the Mom of a 26 or so month old, I'm finding out that a lot of times he doesn't need the time out, what he needs is a Mom who is more aware. Why is he acting up? And is he really acting up or is he just being a naturally curious two year old?? For example, two minutes ago, Sami went into the kitchen... found a basket that was filled with spices & stuff... emptied the basket... brought it in the living room and dumped his goldfish crackers and apple slices in it. Then he carried it to me, proud of his basket. My initial reaction was "Whataryoudoing???Stop!!" but because he came up to me and talked about the basket (first time I've heard him use the word)... it kind of made me stop. And I thought... do I really care that he wants to carry aroudn things in a basket??(No) The problem was that he was spilling goldfish crackers all over... and then grinding them into the rug with his feet. (Also, that this basket probably has never been cleaned.) So, I went into the kitchen and found a plastic collander with handles... and put a whole bunch of old plastic containers and lids in it and gave it to him. He was perfectly happy and still is. I didn't yell. He wasn't punished for being naturally curious. Problem solved.

When I do use time outs, it's usually because he's having a tantrum... but once again, I'm finding that figuring out why he's having the tantrum is more effective. A lot of times, he's hungry... or too tired (fighting naps these days)... or wants to go outside to the park. I tend not to use time outs as much. I also find that usually by ignoring him for 20 seconds and saying "I don't speak to/play with boys who are crying uncontrollably"... or some such thing... he stops. What he really wants is my attention.

But anyways... so when I need a time out... two minutes is plenty. I like to put him on the sofa and ignore him if he's freaking out... and when he's calmer (usually 10-20 seconds), I'll sit real close to him...and try to talk to him about what's going on.

Hope this helps.

[captain crunchy]

I am not an advocate for *naughty* chairs or time-outs...for several reasons...

....but may I gently suggest a comfort corner? A comfort corner is not a place for blame, or shame, or punishment or isolation. A comfort corner is a place where children can go either alone, or with a caregiver or parent if they choose -- to remove themself for a couple of moments from overstimulation, or a situation that may be turning negative for both the child and the parent. It is a place to decompress.

The comfort corner can be a little place with a few favorite books, stuffed animals, a favorite blanket, and a comfy pillow etc. When things are getting crazy, instead of it being a place where the child is *sent* for punishment... it is a place to recollect thoughts and to calm down. If it were me and I chose to employ the comfort corner--when my child was becoming overstimulated or upset, or things were getting a bit *out of hand* I may say something like "I could sure use a little break. Would you like to come with me over here and read a book or snuggle (or whatever)"... then when the child is calm, and disengaged from whatever behavior that is not working, it opens up a chance for dialogue "It seemed like you were very angry when _____ happened".... "I sometimes feel frustrated when I can't ______" (or whatever)...

To me that is a healthier solution if one were looking for a way to facilite disengaging for a moment from behavior that may be getting frustrating for the both of you.

Good luck.

[umsami]

Captain Crunchy!

I love your idea of a comfort corner. Thanks so much for sharing that

Georgia!

Thanks so much for sharing that article by Peggy. It's nice to know that we can evolve as parents.... LOL... I think sometimes I feel intimidated to post that I'm having problems, that I'm not perfect... but we can all evolve as parents (& people)... and become better.

Karla

[loraxc]

We have used the comfort corner (we call it the calm-down corner) with GREAT success with our 24-month-old. She even will say on her own that she wants to go there with me and calm down. It's been really great.

[water]

how long for a time out for a 22 mo old?

Umm...zero minutes? I think time outs are ineffective and useless especially for a baby!!

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by water

Umm...zero minutes? I think time outs are ineffective and useless especially for a baby!!

:

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by water

Umm...zero minutes? I think time outs are ineffective and useless especially for a baby!!

I think a nice follow-up to this would be what you DO consider effective and useful for a child of this age. That way it doesn't come across as just condescending.

Namaste!

[water]

You are right, dhm, I was just coming back to post a follow-up.

Although some mamas here on the GD board do use timeouts, i would bet that most people would agree that they are not effective for a ONE year-old, which, despite the fact that i'm sure she is smart and precocious, is what she is.

In fact, even in the mainstream literature, they do not recommend timeouts for kids under three, because, as the OP has discovered, the kid doesn't get it, and thus the punishment is ineffective.

Starbarrett, read around here some more and I'm sure you will find out what great mamas there are here and the great resources they have to share with you so that you can deal with your baby without having to resort to timeouts. The PP's have already given you some great ideas

When my dc are that young, I redirect, redirect, redirect. I also use "get-off-your-butt" parenting, which means when you say something to your child, if they don't listen, you need to get up, go over to them and help them (GENTLY) with whatever it is, i.e. stopping what they are doing, doing what you need them to do, etc etc.

OP maybe if you post some more specific examples of your baby's behaviour, the mamas here can help out a little more.

[alegna]

I would agree that timeouts are not appropriate at all at 22 months. The comfort corner is a great idea. Further suggestions are going to depend on why she was in a time out to start with. If you could explain what the issues are we could see if we have some useful ideas.

-Angela

[erika h]

Originally Posted by umsami

I think two minutes is usually enough for a 2 year old...

The rule of thumb I hear is 1 minute per year. At 22 months that would put you at just about 2 minutes.

If your child is verbal enough, ask her at the end of the two minutes why she though she ended up in timeout, so you can see whether she made the connection between the behaviour and the timeout.

If your child isn't verbal enough yet, you're probably better of with redirecting her activity.

[Piglet68]

Hree's an article you might find interesting:

The Case Against Time Out

Oh, and welcome!

[dido1]

Piglet, thanks for that link. I have a friend who is a psychologist who keeps advocating time-outs to me, and that article gives me some good arguments. My "they just don't feel right to me" line hasn't been working, LOL.

I agree with the previous posters about modelling behaviour, get-off-your-butt parenting (love that expression) and also the concept of "time-in" which I read here on the boards somewhere. I have a 21 month old whose behaviour can be extremely frustrating, but I'm learning that often what he needs most is my attention, or a "time-in" with me or his father so we can calm down, assess the problem and move past the temper tantrum or difficult behaviour.

Now, I have to give myself time-outs some times, where I repeat over and over and over "I am the adult, I am the adult". Who was it that said before you can effectively discipline your child you must learn to discipline yourself?

[royaloakmi]

The only person in my house who gets time-outs is me

I don't think they are effective for young children and I don't want my children to think that they are naughty or bad (though I obviously work to help them understand and correct behaviors that are wrong).

[Diane~Alena]

The act of putting my daughter in the time out corner is enough for her, most days. I leave her in the corner untill she finishes her fit. It can take 20 seconds or 2 minutes. She rolls around and does the bacon on the floor but stays in her area. Once she is calmer I go and hug her and we get back to life. It may not work for everyone but thats what works for us.

When my dc are that young, I redirect, redirect, redirect. I also use "get-off-your-butt" parenting, which means when you say something to your child, if they don't listen, you need to get up, go over to them and help them (GENTLY) with whatever it is, i.e. stopping what they are doing, doing what you need them to do, etc etc.

I love this idea but for my kids it doesn't work all the time. My children are redheaded little monsters(we love them for it) with a will of steal. If my daughter wants something I can't redirect for the life of me. In fact the more I try the harder she works to get it. I found time out or the corner is the only thing that can get her to break that determination. I always try other things first though. Most times a snack or juice is what helps, because her blood sugar is low. Other times I will try taking her out of the room. If these don't work then I have to put her in her spot. once she calms in the spot we try again after a nice hug.

[lara1828]

I personally have decided not to use time-out just because I've never seen it WORK in a young child. And older children always seem to regard it as punishment, which in theory it's not supposed to be.

I've got a pretty easy going kid, but I've found redirection or removal of the temptation to generally be effective. It only took him about twice to figure out what "I'm going to take that away if you keep putting it in your mouth." means. Now, sometimes he chooses to stop, others he chooses to test. If I regard it as his choice, it makes it easier to avoid getting angry or frustrated myself. If he chooses the latter, I just remove the temptation - case closed.

"Get off your butt parenting" is my new favorite catch-phrase

[starbarrett]

Thank you all for your feedback. I had no idea time-outs were not considered "gentle discipline" or I would not have posted. But then I wouldn't have heard your wonderful replies and read the articles. As I said, i'm only a few days into needing any kind of discipline.

I am a big fan of "get off you butt" parenting. I make sure we make eye contact when we talk-- as a general rule, not just for corrective conversation. I redirect redirect redirect and use logical consequences, which has been 100% effective until this week. I am not a neat freak, and she is allowed all kinds of messy and disruptive play.

I'm pretty chill, and normally so is she. But here's what she did to get into the time out she was in when I originally posted: We were sitting having breakfast. She wanted to drink from my water glass. I said (as I have said hundreds of times before when I didn't want her backwash in my water), "your water is right here" and handed her her water. She immediately picked up her plate and threw it on the floor in anger. Food all over the floor. From calm to irrate in a second.

That is not acceptable behavior. But you can't redirect that. And the logical consequence would be to withhold food or water-- but that's not okay either. Creating power struggles over food is the quickest way to create a bulimic. So she got a time out.

When I put on her naughty seat, I recap what she did and why she got a time out. When I go over to her, I thank her for sitting there nicely, and ask her if she knows why she is there. She doesn't speak all that well yet, but she does tell me (even if I don't understand it fully) and I undestand enough words to know that she knows exactly why she is there. And perhaps she's offering her side of the story. I hope this will evolve into real discussion when she's able to talk better. We then hug to make up and then she helps me pick up the food she threw.

I posted too soon. The time outs are helping. She got 2 a day for three days and she started to figure it out. And I adjusted to this new tantrum-y two year old who blossomed overnight. Who now shreiks "haveit" and "mine" instead of saying "please". I'm adjusting and learning not to react to the shriek but calmly request a please before responding.

I agree that dialogue is the best why to teach. But kids are concrete, and they also need concrete consequences. I agree that a logical consequence is preferable if it's appropriate, but they aren't always appropriate. And I don't personally think there's anything wrong with the word "naughty". I don't think it's belittling to let a child know when their behavior is naughty. As long as it's the behavior and not the child.

Timeouts seem to be working for us, but if it's considered too rude a method for this forum, then I won't post here about it again. I'm not looking for a fight, I was just looking for experience with timeouts.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by starbarrett

When I put on her naughty seat, I recap what she did and why she got a time out. When I go over to her, I thank her for sitting there nicely, and ask her if she knows why she is there. She doesn't speak all that well yet, but she does tell me (even if I don't understand it fully) and I undestand enough words to know that she knows exactly why she is there.

Starbarrett, I really appreciate you posting here, and don't want to drive you off by any means. So I just want to respectfully share my experience with you, maybe it'll give you some ideas, maybe you'll think I'm crazy.

There have been many, many times that I felt my dd understood EXACTLY what was going on. She is very verbal, more verbal than any other child I know her age and than many older than her. She is almost three, and she has been speaking in full, complex, grammatically correct sentences for a long time. I'm not trying to brag here, I'm just describing her so I can explain this properly.

However, there are many times that I find out later that she has not understood things the way I thought she was. So I would argue that your dd might not be making the connection the way you think she is. I agree that the behavior is unacceptable. But when you put her in TimeOut for it, I think a number of things may be happening:

1) She may feel angry at you, and therefore distracted from her own feelings pertaining to the "misbehavior". Instead of spending the time "thinking about what she did wrong", it is more likely, IME, she is thinking about how mad she is at you for enforcing the punishment.

2) As she is very young, and still very, very impulsive, she is most likely incapable of stopping her behavior at the moment, and so when she is punished for something out of her control, she may feel lost, out of control, frustrated with herself and her inability to stop herself from doing something "naughty" and this may erode her self-esteem.

3) She is learning that it is unacceptable to express her anger towards you. And that even though she may still be angry at you, she is expected to hug you and swallow her anger and move on.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I've tried T/Os, too. They didn't work AT ALL. So, again, I just want to tell you what my feelings on the subject are. I agree that throwing your food on the floor is unacceptable. But she's really very young!

Okay, so here's what I would do in the situation. Dd throws food on floor. I would say, "Dd, you may not throw food on the floor. It seems like you are angry that I wouldn't let you have a drink of my water, but you cannot throw food on the floor. Instead, I would like you to tell me that you are angry. Now come down here and help me clean up this food."

Here (hopefully), your dd is part of the solution, she is told her behavior is unacceptable, but she is also offered an alternative, one that is more socially acceptable.

Sorry for the ! In closing, may I suggest Anthony Wolf's The Secret of Parenting for a really good argument against punishment?

[blessed]

My 2 yo is from an orphanage, and most of the literature about PI kids (post-institutionalized) advise against time-outs, feeling that it is destabilizing to the baby's bond formation with the parent. They also recommend co-sleeping and continuing bottle feeding, or even resuming it in the case that the child's already weaned, into the second year or beyond.

We're lucky in that we've never needed to consider whether to use time outs, since baby's so sweet and good natured. If she senses that we aren't liking something she's doing, she usually just turns to something else .

edit: ooh, I don't mean that to sound like bragging. I just love my kid!