Healing the Gut Tribe ~ February - Page 10

[JaneS]

Something I've been thinking about for a while now.
Not sure if I have the guts to post in Allergies Forum... yet.

So give me feedback on this, I'll try to explain my thoughts.

I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.

They advance the theory that you just need to take out things from your diet as opposed to putting imporant nutrients in: probiotics, minerals, etc. to heal your immune system.

I know my diet was deficient when I did the Elim. Diet. Think of the top allergens (wheat, dairy, eggs, nuts, fish, soy). Those are some pretty healthy foods with important nutrients (well with the exception of soy ).

So I've been looking back at all we've been through. And thinking about important threads lately here at MDC:

Prepping for Pregnancy
The crucial nature of superior nutrition and immune system in building a healthy baby.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=398509

Nutrition and BFing
If your diet is not excellent, neither is your milk.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=343188

Are Allergies Really Allergies
When I first started looking into gut healing instead of just Elmination Diets to fix all this.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112

Nutrition and Immunology 101
How hard it is to construct a healthy diet in today's world.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

Causes of Autism
Exactly what a deficient diet and immune system can and does result in.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=367180

All of this impresses upon me that the problem is much larger than even "doing a special diet".

I so know newbies do NOT want to hear this right now! But maybe you can make some better choices with this information too.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by sarahariz

Hmm, I just looked it up... sounds interesting. Maybe this is what I need to read since I can't understand why my body would not be producing enough enzymes to digest the food I eat.

Yes, you do! It's a great explanation of the digestive tract. All about how the body makes enzymes, a lot of them are in the lining of the small intestine... the fingerlike projections called villi make the disaccharidases, to digest disaccharides (the foods we are taking out on the SCD b/c they are fermenting undigested in the gut and feeding yeast/bacteria).

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Bestbirths

Is the awesome book on migraines Enzymes and Autism by Karen DeFelice? Would I want to buy this or would checking it out at the library and reading it once give me all the information I would need?

Yes, that is the awesome book

I keep referring to mine, but there is a lot of info on her site and her Yahoo Group. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/

But not about the background on behavioral and sensory issues and how the gut effects those.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Bestbirths

On the D-lactate free probiotic. I fed my son Klaire labs probiotic and the whites of his already chronically irritated eyes turned yellow and his poop turned green!!!!! The autism merc list folks are so smart because they pinpointed this right away to be a reaction to D-lactate which is found in l. acidophilous and certain strains of probiotic....

So...for ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY BUCKS...with shipping we purchased a d-lactate free probiotic, and ds is handling it just fine...

but like GULP! on the cost of it...maybe the bottle will last a long long time!

Ds friend wrecked his car and fixed it for the cost of this little bottle of probiotic. We were joking about that the other day.....

OMG, that is ridiculous, do you have a link for the solid gold probiotic?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Would you guys who know more about this advise me on what to feed her?
So far on the SCD it's been:
bananas
peaches
pears
applesauce

Are peaches a no no to begin with? I'm wondering if that's contributing to her pitiful allergy look????? PLUS, she's been constipated.
Thanks!

I know it's really, really hard!

She's only on BM and fruit and she's constipated? Yeast and bacterial issues can cause constip. too, not just diarrhea. Are you drinking a TON of water, like 16 glasses?

Make sure bananas are spotted with black. Have you tried pureed veggies? Butternut squash?

I don't think her look is due to one food, it's the whole thing.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by Jane S
I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.

I agree. It totally makes sense.

Can I just whine about yogurt making for a minute! AAAAAHHHHHHH! I am destined NOT to make it. This is my third BOTCHED batch (say that 3 times fast), and it's making me !

It's seperated in the mason jars. Did the temp get too hot? I brought it to 180 and then let it sit at 100.

I've also been posting over at pecanbread. I'm kumadexmom over there (an old yahoo name that I was too lazy to change.) THey said over there that 100 was not high enough. (?)

Geez. You know, my first batch looked good and actually tasted pretty good too (a little sour), but I know it did not stay at a high enough temp so I tossed it. Could it have been okay since it looked and tasted okay?

OT: I found a wonderful organic co-op here as a result of my search for raw milk and the lady that owns it has a sister who works for Dr. Sears. DH was telling her about DD's troubles and this diet, etc... Well, she spoke w/him about die-off and said she'd be happy to give me her sister's phone # and I could talk to Dr. Sears directly re: this if I wanted to. I've read several of his books, but nothing re: this topic!

Enough . Going back to bed.

[mlleoiseau]

Originally Posted by Bestbirths

DID any of you hear the latest, that MCDonalds fries are NOT gluten free? Not that they were healthy anyhow. But it seems they lied the whole time and contain gluten!!!!!

Yep. And not only do they contain wheat, they also contain dairy. Supposedly the wheat and dairy get processed out in the processing. They are labeling it now to comply with the new food labeling law. Kind of sucks. I know they aren't healthy, but they used to be the only thing I felt comfortable giving my allergic child when we ended up eating out.

[Panserbjorne]

Jane, I have posted something to that effect several times. Not only are they harmful, they don't work. Unless steps are taken to heal the gut, all you end up with is DIFFERENT FOODS YOU ARE NOW ALLERGIC TO. It is harmful, and results in a terribly inhealthy diet (9 times out of 10) With good information people could prevent a leaky gut from ever happening, let alone having to heal it...but for those of us who are late to the game it is important to be giving a nourishing diet to allow the body every opportunity to heal. I cringe when I hear about mamas who had allergy tests (having been there myself) and eliminate thirty foods from their diets and are living on four foods...Karen DeFelice talks about mamas like that in her book. How do you expect your body to be able to do ANYTHING normal under those circumstances?!?! Your gut has holes, it still has holes, and now you are sensitizing it to the four foods you're eating. It's pretty well documented-that's how it works. Jane, you should post. Just let us know when you do it so we can run over and support you!

[Bestbirths]

custom probiotics is the solid gold probiotic, but you have to scroll down to #8 for the D-lactate free. Now that I look at it, I don't even know if they make a d-lactate free yogurt starter!!! Yes, I just checked and their yogurt starter has l. acidophilous in it, and that is what my son can't have

LOL how they say their probiotics are "affordable".......

[JaneS]

Thanks Elisabeth,

I must have missed your posts! I've been thinking about this for a while, but finally everything has gelled in my poor tired brain.

Saving this link for the "discussion"

http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/HeatLabile.htm

When the food does not digest properly, it can sit in the gut, unable to be assimilated completely, and it starts to become toxic. The carbohydrates start to ferment, the proteins begin to putrefy and the fats become rancid. These toxins irritate the lining of the gastrointestinal tract mucosa. This can poison the gut bacteria, causing the ecology of the gut to become upset. Three hundred to 400 of the bacteria species can become upset, causing overgrowth of candida and other pathogens. The irritation also causes the cells on the lining of the gastrointestinal tract enlarge. When the cells become larger, the putrefied, undigested food slips into the bloodstream, sometimes called the leaky gut syndrome. These are also called "free radicals", with such formidable names as cadaverines, endols, putricine and phenol.

Since it is the liver's job to detoxify toxins, the liver becomes overloaded and unable to do its job. In the bloodstream, this undigested or partially-digested food (in the form of macromolecules) is in particles too large to get into the cells to function. This undigested or partially-digested food moves through the bloodstream, causing havoc in the body. This is a form of food allergy. It can go to the head and cause the classic symptoms of allergy such as runny nose, eyes, scratchy throat, itchy ears, sinusitis and sneezing. It can go to the brain and cause headaches, anger, fatigue, schizophrenia and perspiration. This putrefied food can go to the joints or tissues and cause arthritis, or to the nerves and cause multiple sclerosis. These macromolecules can also go to the skin and cause acne, edema, psoriasis or rashes. It can lodge anywhere in the soft tissues in the body and cause problems.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by sarahariz

Hmm, I just looked it up... sounds interesting. Maybe this is what I need to read since I can't understand why my body would not be producing enough enzymes to digest the food I eat.

Had lots of thoughts about this this morning...

"Nourishing Traditions" is also a great book to understand the impact of our diet on our bodies. A diet of mostly cooked food depletes our enzyme resources.

Edward Howell, the father of enzyme research was the first to explain:

Enzymes are complex proteins that act as catalysts in almost every biochemical process that takes place in the body. Their activity depends on the presence of adequate vitamins and minerals, particularly magnesium. Many enzymes incorporate a single molecule of a trace mineral—such as manganese, copper, iron or zinc-without which the enzyme cannot function. http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritiongreats/howell.html

http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Enzymes.htm

(p.s. I love how the "fruitarians" forgot the raw milk and butter rec at the end of the article )

Especially the phytates in whole grains (and nuts and soy) which is now the mantra of modern healthy diets... and they are damaging to the body if not soaked first or bread is not sourdough. Whole grains that are not soaked inhibit enzymes as well as bind to minerals. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

NT recommends aiming for half of the diet to come from raw foods: raw milk/butter/cheese/cream, fermented veggies and fermented dairy in addition to fresh fruits and vegetables. And even raw meat and raw liver. Because raw fats and raw proteins are very healthful.

Thinking of the Eskimos, who thrived on a diet of mostly raw meat and raw fats... with NO ketosis! Because the raw foods contained so many enzymes, their bodies digested them completely. (And apparently that is what kept them warm, their metabolism burning it all off.)

Acid-Alkaline balance effects enzymes: http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...id_alk_bal.htm

Too much omega-6 in the diet "uses up" the delta-6 desaturase enzymes needed for the omega-3 pathway
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...staglandin.htm

Omega 6's are in vegetable oils -- the current fad in supposedly healthy diets. (Canola, safflower, sunflower, corn oils are not healthy). Again, the current modern diet rec are all wrong.

[Pattyla]

Ok, I'm sold on this approach but I don't know how to start.

I ordered the book.

I'm very confused trying to figure out what we can eat at first.

Where might I find dry curd cottage cheese?

Also, I'm anemic and on iron. What should I do?

And we are ttc. I'll know in a few days if we were sucessful this cycle. Can I/should I try to follow this while pg?

[Annikate]

Did I get a batch of rotten milk?

On my 4th attempt to make yogurt, I began heating it to the required 180 degrees and as soon as it reached 100 it began to curdle and seperate. Did I get a bad batch of milk to begin with? It smelled kind of yucky when I opened it up.

On my 2nd attempt, I actually used some yummy looking and smelling raw jersey cow milk. The yogurt came out looking and smelling and tasting pretty good (a little sour tasting) but I tossed it out because I know that my oven did not maintain the proper temp overnight. :

So . . . what' up? Am I destined NEVER to eat this stuff???????????????????

I think I got TWO rotten batches of raw milk in a row. Am I right? What do you all think?

Now I have to wait 'til TUesday to get the good jersey milk again.

[RedAnt]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.

What you're saying makes sense to me, but how else do you figure out allergies when babies are young and allergy testing is faulty? OR are you meaning that it doesn't matter which foods you're intolerant of/allergic to if you are healing the gut? Do you just start SCD including offending foods? If not, at what point do you re-introduce them?

[Panserbjorne]

RedAnt: Exactly. You really don't need to know the allergens (unless you're talking anaphalaxis which is a different ball game.) The SCD has no "offending" foods in terms of foods that will further damage your gut. It does allow foods I'm not on board with...pasteurized cheeses, some sweeteners etc. Consuming those things IMO aren't conducive to good health, but as I said, they will allow your gut to heal. That said, dd can't do pasteurized dairy, but can tolerate raw dairy so there may be some wiggle room once you start-make sense? Food (except in the case of celiac disease) does not inherently damage the gut. It's the imbalances within the gut that are the problem. Heavy metal overload, yeast overgrowth, dysbiosis etc. can cause holes to form in the lining and allow food to leak through into the bloodstream. Your body then attacks it, pinpointing it as an invader, and launches an immune response. You will continue having that response until the gut lining is healed up. The foods leaking through are eliciting a response, but not causing damage. So, unless you are experiencing an anaphalactic response I don't really feel it's important to "know" what the offending foods are. And I'm speaking as a mama who's kids had about 18 identifies allergens each that I chose to ignore and heal. HTH. Jane may have alot more to add, mine was the condensed version.

Annikate: I never heated my milk past 115-but you are saying it curdled way earlier than that. Hmmmmm. I'm sorry you are going through this! It will be a bit sour when you are done though. Maybe somebody else will be more helpful. Keep trying...it's totally worth it just for the versatility it provides in recipes!

[Panserbjorne]

Oh, redant...you don't need to worry about reintroducing problematic foods because as I said food isn't the problem. You can decide for yourself when to go off the SCD, but it is a very healthful program and the only thing you are missing are grains-which I never found I did well re-introducing.

[Panserbjorne]

Jane, I know I posted here (very gently pushing towards this forum!!), but I have also been on boards with people with celiac disease, and other various food allergies and intolerances doing these ridiculously intense elimination diets. In fact a while back I referred one mama here who was eating like seven foods. It's a big problem IMO. I'm just lucky to have found you and Moneca back in August! I was also lucky to have a doc and an LC who said the same thing to me. Elimintaion diets just produce more allergies. That's how I initially found quercetin and MSM. I feel blessed to have all the right people in my life.

[Pattyla]

I ordered the book on amazon and also a yougart maker for like $15 (if anyone is interested in one.) It looks like it will work nicely for incubating the yougart and the two togther gave me free shipping

I am making some yougart now and trying to eat up a bunch of my favorite foods

I'm torn about starting this diet now and just putting away the "bad" foods (that aren't perishable) or putting it off a week. My dd and I have a cold and dh has a migrane and a stomach ache today (he has far more gi "issues" than we do).

It says lots of places to do the intro diet untill the diahrea stops. None of us currently have diahrea. Will we get it on the intro diet or does the diet assume that is an issue for everyone doing this? If we don't have diahrea do we need to do the intro or can we skip right to stage 1?

Thanks for now.

[Annikate]

I'm probably the last one to answer your question Patty, but I just realized (since I have not received or read the book yet), that I have skipped over the first stage myself. I did not have any real *symptoms* per se either and it seems to be working for me. I made the mistake of trying some pecans w/honey and cinnamon and that was stupid! I suffered a tummy ache after that so I guess I'm not ready for nuts.

I cleaned my pantry and boxed up my *bad* food and gave it all to a neighbor. None of it was really junk, but lots of wheat, pastas, etc...

And . . . I cooked all day long again today and froze a lot of yummy stuff for the week.

Still waiting to have some yogurt . . . . :

[Pattyla]

One more question.

Would something like nystantin or diflucan be beneficial/legal on this diet? Does anyone know of the dangers of these drugs esp in light of our ttc status (I'm 6 dpo today)?

Thanks!

I am realizing how all the dietary changes I have been making for our family are like a gradula transition into this diet. That is a good thing, none of us cope with change well.