2 year olds and sharing

[Attila the Honey]

I debated whether I should put this in Toddlers or here, because honestly I don't feel this is really a 'discipline' issue exactly. Or maybe it is...

My 27 month old is suddenly not sharing her toys at all. I watch a 5 year old girl 1-2x a week at my house and lately the 5yo is having a horrible time because whenever she touches a toy my dd has an all out tantrum and screams until the 5yo gives it to her.

I know that alot of this is probably just the age, a phase, whatever, but how do I deal with it? I can't find anything that works or feels right. Yesterday the 5 yo cried before she came to my house becuse she didn't want to come over, and that's never happened before.

The only day this problem wasn't awful was one day when my dh happened to be home from work. There was an adult for each girl and my dd stayed calm and happy with 1 on 1 attention.

Any input, advice, tips on how to get through this?

[sanguine_speed]

I don't think this is "gentle discipline" per se, but what I do and find works is a child may play with a particular toy and may choose whether or not to share that toy. When she is finished, another child may play with it.

I encourage sharing by offering suggestions about how the children can both use said toy, but ultimately give the playing child the choice. I also encourage sharing by explaining about feelings and all that good stuff.

But, a 2 year old (or at least MY 2 year old) has limited capacities for empathy and a newfound sense of fairness, and "Mine-ness" that is difficult to negotiate.

Could this work for you?

Oh, and we put "special" toys away before guests arrive. Those would be toys that you know your 2 year old would be most upset about someone else using. Alternately, you could do an activity that would use materials the 2 year old doesn't have any sense of ownership with, i.e. make malleable dough together and share it; it "belongs" to them both from the toddler's perspective.

[Attila the Honey]

It's extreme and I am finding there is no real way to rationalize or compromise with her. It's not limited to a toy or a few special toys that can be put away, and as much as I try to explain that she can have the toy when the 5yo is finished it never seems to help.

She will literally just say, "NO MINE! I NEED THAT!" to everything the 5yo touches. So, invariably, the 5yo gets irked and gives her whatever it is she is screeching for and picks up another toy and my dd does it again. Lather, rinse, repeat ALL DAY LONG! :

Even with clay, which I did end up playing with the both of them with the same reasoning that you had, she was crying for every lump of clay the 5yo had in her hand.

The only thing that seemed to help at all was separating them. Not with any type of judgement or punishment attached, but rather just setting the 5yo up with a toy in my room and the 2yo in her own room and then me going back and forth and playing with the two of them. Of course, this really isn't an option that can work for any length of time without it becoming a 'time out' type thing and telling dd she's not allowed to play with the 5yo or vice versa.

I think part of the reason the 5yo had such a terrible day was because she had to spend a good portion of it playing by herself in the bedroom. (She's a very social child, and I think she felt left out when i was playing with dd, and of course dd felt left out when I was playing with 5yo!)

[blessed]

I think that 'mine!' and tantruming about possession of toys is very classic two year old behavior. My kid didn't seem to have much of an issue with this. She always seems more interested in getting along with whomever she's with, and the toys are just secondary.

But in my kids' preschool class - entirely composed of 2 year olds - this is of course a constant issue. If they didn't get some kind of handle on it the environment would just degenerate into nonstop chaos and tears, so I was interested in observing how they dealt with this issue.

What I've seen the teachers do is work pretty attentively and consistently with the kids about defining ownership and the concept of 'taking turns'. Sometimes early on it would be just an ongoing thing, but they would just stay close by, patient and calm, and every single time a disagreement broke out, they were right there on top of it immediately. If the two kids just couldn't be persuaded to come to an agreement, the teacher would set the toy up on the shelf out of reach and say, 'okay then, no one can play with it right now.'

It took very little time for the kids to just figure out that there are some simple rules that needed to be adhered to when playing with other kids. Then everyone was happier, most especially the kids themselves, as you can imagine. Now everybody's playing well together, and the kids come away with a sense that the other person is more important than the object.

But those teachers did have to do some pretty good legwork up front in helping the kids understand the rules.

[loraxc]

This might be totally off-base, but I am wondering if it isn't about the toys at all but some other feeling your 2yo has been having about the 5yo. How do they get along generally?

Will your child share with you or your partner? We "practice" sharing between the two of us--I point out when I'm sharing something with her, and we talk about sharing food and do so. This gets her used to the concept without it being charged like it is with another child. I never force the issue--if she doesn't want to practice sharing, I just say, "Okay, you don't want to share right now. Maybe another time."

[Attila the Honey]

Originally Posted by loraxc

This might be totally off-base, but I am wondering if it isn't about the toys at all but some other feeling your 2yo has been having about the 5yo. How do they get along generally?

Will your child share with you or your partner? We "practice" sharing between the two of us--I point out when I'm sharing something with her, and we talk about sharing food and do so. This gets her used to the concept without it being charged like it is with another child. I never force the issue--if she doesn't want to practice sharing, I just say, "Okay, you don't want to share right now. Maybe another time."

They usually get along wonderfully! The 5yo calls my dd her "pretend little sister". I've watched the 5yo since before my dd was born, so it's not a new situation at all. The 5yo is very loving and attentive to dd and dd usually soaks it all up.

In fact, after 2 days of misery and having a tantrum everytime the 5yo touched her toys today my dd had a tantrum and sobbed when she found out the 5yo wasn't coming over again until next week.

I am sure a part of it isn't just sharing the toys, but that she has to share her mommy, though. I try my best to give them both plenty of attention.

We are working with her regarding sharing (using that word alot lately!) and pointing out sharing and in general she seems fine about sharing until it comes to *her stuff* in *her house* with a visitor like the 5yo. She's even pretty good about sharing in other places, it's just that she seems more territorial with her own toys.

I think part of the problem might be that this is getting dragged out because we only have our visitor 1-2X a week. You know? If I had a few days in a row my dd might get it out of her system once and for all, but this way we don't have the opportunity to reinforce sharing and playing well together on a regular basis.

Blessed> I think that sounds like it could work, but I worry about it being terribly unfair to the 5yo! Since my dd screams for everything the 5yo touches it would go something like this:

5yo starts to play with Toy A. DD screams for Toy A. I explain that if we can't all share and play nicely then Toy A has to get put away. DD continues screaming. I put Toy A away. 5yo starts to play with Toy B. DD screams for Toy B....

[BlueStateMama]

Just wanted to express my empathy, coming from a mama to a 2 1/2 year old. The most frequent expression I hear is, "No, MINE!!!!!" I feel so badly for my 9 month old, we don't use "no" with her at all (only redirection) and the only thing she seems to hear from her brother is, "NO Ava, MY toy!!" "NO Ava, MY book!!!" as he yanks it away (and yes, I'd love some input on handling those battles - not to hijack or anything )

When my best friend brings her 2 1/2 year old DD over for playdates it's almost (almost!) comical to see her battle with my DS. EVERYTHING is a tug of war. As soon as one picks up any toy, the other comes rushing over to say, "NOOOOOOOO!!! MY monkey!! MY truck!" : The good thing is that my best friend is a GD'er too, but we sort of scratch our heads about how to gently separate them and sort through the raging battles. (advice here too would be helpful!!)

Anyways, Attila, I just wanted to say I feel you!!

[Piglet68]

When my DD was right around the age of yours, she started having major issues like that. I used to bring her to LLL meetings, but it was getting really disruptive. If another child so much as looked at the toy she was holding, she'd start screaming "NOOOO".

It was obvious to me that, for some developmental reason, such situations were really stressing her out. You may not like my suggestion, but I decided that I was simply not going to put her in those situations anymore, until she gained some maturity and was able to handle it. We stopped going to playgroups or playdates. We stuck to situations where she was happy - such as going to the outdoor playground with friends, or going to the local Science World. But in small settings of kids, even one-on-one, she just simply couldn't handle the concept of sharing, etc and it was much too stressful for her.

Some people suggested that she "just had to learn to get along" blah blah blah. I didn't listen to them. I felt that she WILL learn those things when she is ready, and what she is telling me right now is she simply isn't ready. I didn't feel that pushing her was going to solve anything.

Well, I was validated in spades. After a couple of months we experimented with willing friends to see how things were, and there were definite improvements. We went slowly and eventually she was fine. I felt I really did the right thing.

I know you are watching this child, and assume it's a source of income for you. But if I were you I would probably get the parents to find another arrangement for a while until your daughter has had a chance to mature on her own schedule. It would be less stressful for her and the other child.

[Attila the Honey]

Piglet, it has almost gotten to the point where I decided on my own that I just couldn't do that job anymore! But, really that isn't an option for a couple of major reasons:

First of all, I've watched this girl and her two older brothers all since birth and I love them dearly like they are family. I could no sooner give up having her in my life because of something like this than do that to my own dd or a niece or nephew. I truly love and care for this little girl, and we are as attached as a nanny and child can be. (I was a fulltime nanny for this family before my dd was born.)

And secondly, we need the money. It pretty much pays for our grocery bill and puts gas in the car. It amounts to a few hundred bucks a month that we can't afford to give up yet.

In a few months the 5yo will be in school fulltime and my job will be over, anyway. If her parents had to find temporary arrangements over this I am sure they'd just stick with the temp arrangements until school began.

I know there are other options beyond quitting my job! If the girls were siblings that wouldn't be an option either.

[angela&avery]

i have a four year old and a 2 year old. Its nice if you can avoid such situations, but we just cant, they are siblings!! What we do is whoever has said toy gets to keep it until they are done using it. It is completely unfair, IMO, to let the 2 year old take everything away from the older child simply bc she is two and is going through an age. I would remove her from the area if she is freaking, stay with her and empathize with her and move on. I also think it is unfair for the 5 year old to have to be in another room bc the 2 year old wants to take everything she has. I know all children are different, but my 2 year old has really come around to taking turns. She feels safe knowing the four year old cant take what she is using (it goes both ways in this house, he wanst her things just as much as she wants his), and once i state "when she is done with it, she will let you know"....... she almost always gives it to him in under a minute.. and the other way around. When the kids dont feel threatened, they are more caring and understanding how badly the other wants a turn.

If that doesnt work, I know a mama who has had to turn to a timer. Her kids are 18 mo apart and they each get 5 minutes, and then hand it over, otherwise, she said, its mayhem.


I know its more gd to avoid the situation and let the child "be" two, but I just dont see how every situation with other children can be avoided until the child is out of the stage. I do see it as a very two year old normal thing to do, but I also have faith in my children that they can understand and empathize with each other, at least sometimes, and come to an understanding and agreement between each other most days. My kids are doing this, more so when I use the right words with them, empathise with them, and take myself out of the picture (dont take sides). If I dont know who had the toy first, sometimes I have to take it away so I dont unfairly give it to someone.

I compared the situation to my kids bc it does kind of sound like she may be a little jealous having to share you.

hth!!

[famousmockngbrd]

My DS is *still* like this, sometimes. But the good news is he does a lot better now than he used to.

DS always did better on neutral ground, too. Is there any way you could have a box of stuff just for when the 5 y. o. is there, that is separate from the everyday stuff? The 2 y. o. might not see it as "hers" so much. Or maybe have the 5 y. o. bring some of her own stuff to play with? You also might try involving the 2 y. o. in picking out some toys for them to play with together. Just some ideas - this is a tough age for this kind of thing, sharing does not come naturally to most 2 y. o.s!

[Calidris]

Could the 5 year old maybe bring a few of her toys from home? Fern is very much like this about sharing, but she is much more willing to 'share' if the toys aren't hers.

[Calidris]

I see I crossposted with famousmockingbrd

well great minds and all that

[famousmockngbrd]

nak

Just wanted to add - to elaborate on what angela&avery said - we tried to concentrate on "taking turns" rather than "sharing". Sharing is a hard concept for little kids to grasp - taking turns is more concrete and they seem to get it faster. So instead of saying "we need to share the toys", we'd say something like "Jane is having a turn right now, you can have a turn next", etc.

[famousmockngbrd]

Originally Posted by Calidris

I see I crossposted with famousmockingbrd

well great minds and all that