GD and food?

[sanguine_speed]

I'm really struggling with what to do about food as it pertains to my children in many aspects. Specifically, there are my questions and concerns:

-what boundaries must be "enforced" when it comes to my kids consuming foods that I consider inappropriate? How do I decide how much of what is acceptable and do I make it a clear rule, or is it always open for discussion? Without consistency, I'm finding my 4yo is confused about limits, or constantly gets upset when I impose a seemingly different rule this time (but really my decision depends on circumstances, which I try to convey to her still-developing sense of reason).

-I do not want to have a large list of forbidden foods, because I know that isn't the most effective tactic. However, some things just must be forbidden right now. My daughter has some behaviours that I feel are attributable to food additives. If I am to try and test this hypothesis, I must remove these additives and this results in restricting my child's diet in a serious way. All I'm left to do is try and explain?

-what about dinner time? My children really prefer component meals and will rarely eat food that is 'mixed up'. But, then they only eat their favourite component and will not eat the others. They want more of the same component. I want to give them as much autonomy as possible, and I know that if I prefered a certain food and really didn't want the others, I'd probably have more of the same. Then again, I have more knowledge about food and nutrients than my small children and can make an informed choice. They are not capable of being fully aware of the consequences of their choices when it comes to food. So to me, that means there must be limits.

How do these issues get resolved in a GD household???


I will add that we do a lot of talking about healthy, nourishing food, as well as describing the components of our bodies and how food helps our bodies grow, etc. I have also tried explaining about less healthy choices. We own and read "Eat Healthy, Feel Great" from the Sears series. (which we edit because we don't eat meat or drink milk).

[johub]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

I'm really struggling with what to do about food as it pertains to my children in many aspects. Specifically, there are my questions and concerns:

-what boundaries must be "enforced" when it comes to my kids consuming foods that I consider inappropriate? How do I decide how much of what is acceptable and do I make it a clear rule, or is it always open for discussion? Without consistency, I'm finding my 4yo is confused about limits, or constantly gets upset when I impose a seemingly different rule this time (but really my decision depends on circumstances, which I try to convey to her still-developing sense of reason).

-I do not want to have a large list of forbidden foods, because I know that isn't the most effective tactic. However, some things just must be forbidden right now. My daughter has some behaviours that I feel are attributable to food additives. If I am to try and test this hypothesis, I must remove these additives and this results in restricting my child's diet in a serious way. All I'm left to do is try and explain?

I think the best thing to do in this situation is to simply not have those things around at all. Remove them from everybody's diet so that the temptation is not around and you can minimize your limts and explanations. (or at least keep these things from being consumed in her presence).
Just by doing this you may find that your "forbidden" list seems much smaller to your dc.

-what about dinner time? My children really prefer component meals and will rarely eat food that is 'mixed up'. But, then they only eat their favourite component and will not eat the others. They want more of the same component. I want to give them as much autonomy as possible, and I know that if I prefered a certain food and really didn't want the others, I'd probably have more of the same. Then again, I have more knowledge about food and nutrients than my small children and can make an informed choice. They are not capable of being fully aware of the consequences of their choices when it comes to food. So to me, that means there must be limits.

How do these issues get resolved in a GD household???

My children eat in just this way. Especially my 3 year old, he doesnt even want his food touching. What I do is I will delay a second helping of the preferred food until at least a bite or two is eaten of a less preferred (but not disliked) food. I dont make my kids eat what they dont like. But if they sometimes eat x, but today they have x and y and only want y. I will tell them that they may have more y after they have 2 bites of x. (or whatever).
Then if I feel some nutrient component is lacking, I make up for it in another meal. I might also contrive to offer something I want them to eat alone at a snack (so there isnt any preferred food competing).
I firmly believe that kids diets and food choices average out throughout the week if we just offer a variety of healthy foods, over a span of a week (but not per meal or per day) their diets will be balanced. And I find this to be true for my kids. They might reject vegetables tuesday but crave celery and cucumber slices on wednesday. THey may not eat any meat on wednesday but ask for seconds on friday.

[The4OfUs]

I agree with taking a look at an entire week as opposed to day by day.

I'm also a firm believer in the parents being responsible for what is available to the child (i.e., not a short order cook), but the child deciding what and how much of what is available to eat.

When it comes to food, I do not engage in battles, because it is one area that I believe can cause huge problems down the road.

I offer several different items at every meal, making sure one of them is one I know DS likes, and then he gets to decide how much of what he eats. If he wants 3 helpings of rice, 4 kernels of corn and 1 bite of chicken, OK by me. Half a bell pepper and a cup of milk? Fine. I know it will all balance out over the course of a week, because I know what I offer him is almost all very good for him (we do junk food sometimes though, I won't deny it).

As DS gets older, if he decides he doesn't want what we're having, he'll be welcome to make himself cereal or a sandwich, but I will always have at least one food at each meal that he likes.


I also agree with not having the foods available to anyone if you're testing your reaction theory, because it's not fair to let everyone else eat whatever it is but not that one person, because then I almost guarantee that will be the only thing that one person wants. If it's not in the house, it isn't an option.

Good luck!

[sanguine_speed]

I was refering to non-approved foods outside the home such as at friends' houses or while out and about.

I also agree in allowing the child to have whatever and providing only healthy alternatives, but what if the child only eats vegetables every night? Yay veggies, but...>? If you then only provide the food that your child needs but he doesn't want it, then what?


It is very possible that a child will never choose a food that contains an essential vitamin/mineral. Particularly, I'm concerned about iron. I've tried EVERYTHING I can think of...but that choice is never made. SO then what???

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

II offer several different items at every meal, making sure one of them is one I know DS likes,Good luck!

The thing is, my child "likes" things one day, then doesn't the next. It's not a matter of feeling repulsed or ill by the foods, but a matter of prefering something else that day. So, hummus was a favourite and a reasonable supply of iron, but now it's a no-go, even when we make it together and pair it with favourite veggies.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

I was refering to non-approved foods outside the home such as at friends' houses or while out and about.

I also agree in allowing the child to have whatever and providing only healthy alternatives, but what if the child only eats vegetables every night? Yay veggies, but...>? If you then only provide the food that your child needs but he doesn't want it, then what?


It is very possible that a child will never choose a food that contains an essential vitamin/mineral. Particularly, I'm concerned about iron. I've tried EVERYTHING I can think of...but that choice is never made. SO then what???

well, you might not like what I have to say about this then, either, but here goes anyway .

Out and about, or at other people's houses, I wouldn't worry about it as much, necessarily, especially if it's just occasional - I think there's something to be said for lettign your child be like the others, sometimes, if it's just something that you wouldn't serve. But then again, as I said, I'm not real concerned about it occasionally. For us, it doesn't happen very often, and if he gets twinkies and hot dogs at a friends house every once in a while, I won't sweat it...BUT if you have serious concerns about reactions and confirm them at home, or if you are out and about a lot, I would then pack fun foods that were OK every time you go out, and be sure to offer some to the other kids around, too...actually, I always bring food for DS when we go out, no matter where we are going - food I know is good for him and that he likes, in case he doesn't like whatever is where we are (but not because I'm worried about him getting junk - sometimes he doesn't like the junk anyway, so I like to have good stuff ready for him if that happens).

As far as missing one essential mineral/vitamin, if you can't get your kid to willingly eat it, I'd supplement...it's still not worth the battle for me - forcing them to eat it isn't goign to help, and if they won't do it on their own, I think that's exactly what supplements are for. Or, you could try sneaky ways of putting it in a smoothie or something....I've heard of lots of different ways to hide things in smoothies.

One thing that does cross my mind is that DS wasn't interested in meat for a while (I know you said you don't eat meat, but it's just to give a suggestion)....for some reason one time we just had the meat on his plate, not the starch or veggie, and he chowed it down. But, if we put the meat on the plate with the other stuff, he won't eat it (or won't eat much). So, what we do is give him his meat first, he can eat as much of it as he wants (or not), and then after 5 min or so we'll give him the rest of his food (regardless of how much meat he has eaten), and he eats whatever from there, too...soooo, you could try serving the iron-rich foods alone first (but NOT in an "if you don't eat this, you won't get anything else" way) and give that a few minutes...then serve the rest.

Hope this was more what you were looking for.....

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

One thing that does cross my mind is that DS wasn't interested in meat for a while (I know you said you don't eat meat, but it's just to give a suggestion)....for some reason one time we just had the meat on his plate, not the starch or veggie, and he chowed it down. But, if we put the meat on the plate with the other stuff, he won't eat it (or won't eat much). So, what we do is give him his meat first, he can eat as much of it as he wants (or not), and then after 5 min or so we'll give him the rest of his food (regardless of how much meat he has eaten), and he eats whatever from there, too...soooo, you could try serving the iron-rich foods alone first (but NOT in an "if you don't eat this, you won't get anything else" way) and give that a few minutes...then serve the rest.

Hope this was more what you were looking for.....

I will definitely try this.

I've found some success in gently placing foods near dd with the phrase: "this is here if you would like to eat it, but if you don't want to, that's fine". Sometimes she eats the food she originally protested.

Tonight I'll try this. It could be fun--maybe a four course dinner with fancy napkins and wine glasses for our water, etc.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

Tonight I'll try this. It could be fun--maybe a four course dinner with fancy napkins and wine glasses for our water, etc.

That's the spirit!!! Good luck!! Let me know how it turns out - that does sound like fun...maybe we'll have to have a fancy night here too, soon!

[Llyra]

I think that with food, there's a divison of responsibility. The parent decides what to buy and what to serve. The child decides which of the available choices to eat, and how much.

I too go through all kinds of internal frustration about what DD eats, but I really think that ANY kind of pressure tactics, even gentle coaxing, only backfire on me. So I try really hard to just let it go. I only keep good foods in the house, even though that means DH and I have to go without our favorite treats (well, actually, we keep a secret stash and eat them after DD goes to bed, and we'll keep that up until she's old enough to be aware of what we're doing) and let DD pick what she wants from among those foods. When I see that there are certain essential nutrients she's missing, I resort to supplements (DD also doesn't get much iron, except for what's in her cereal) because it's just not worth agonizing over.

At other people's homes, I just relax and go with the flow. We mostly spend our days at home, and a visit is a treat, and if DD eats junk for one afternoon it's not that big a deal. As she gets older, we'll talk about moderation but she's just a toddler now.

When there's something I really want her to try, and I offer it at the beginning of a meal when she's really hungry, and sometimes she'll be hungry enough to give it a shot. If she doesn't want it, I just matter of factly take it away and offer her something else.

In the case of intolerances or allergies, though, at someone else's house, I guess I'd have to be firm and say, "not for Julia."

It's the rare toddler or preschooler that eats what we'd consider a truly balanced diet, but they mostly seem to grow up just fine, and many of them broaden their dietery horizons as they get older, especially if their families provide a good example. I say don't sweat it.

[johub]

As for eating "forbidden" things when out, I would start trying to limit outings during meal times or snack times. Or if there is a situation where children will be together for a snack, try to negotiate with the other moms ahead of time so that the food offered is not a forbidden one.

And as for if they just wont eat some nutrient over a long period of time, I also agree. Give a supplement, and keep offering the foods. It isn't the best way to get the nutrient, but it is better than creating a power struggle. And if you dont try to push, it will likely be that much sooner that she will decide to eat these foods on her own.

And if my kids eat only veggies for dinner, maybe I would offer only fruits for lunch and only grains for breakfast!

[TortelliniMama]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

So, what we do is give him his meat first, he can eat as much of it as he wants (or not), and then after 5 min or so we'll give him the rest of his food (regardless of how much meat he has eaten), and he eats whatever from there, too...soooo, you could try serving the iron-rich foods alone first (but NOT in an "if you don't eat this, you won't get anything else" way) and give that a few minutes...then serve the rest.

We've done something similar to this. Rather than making the desired food a reward for taking a bite of other food, we just say that the desired food isn't "ready" yet. Then we just wait a couple of minutes before a bite of the desired food is offered. It's not dependent on whether or not he's eaten any of the other food. Instead, it's just a delay to give him a chance to consider trying some of the other. Of course, ds so far has been too young to realize, "It is too ready! It's sitting right there!" For an older child, you could just time dinner preparations so that not everything is ready at once. Goodness knows that happens to me all the time when I'm actually trying to have everything ready at once.

Or you could start having "hors d'oeuvres" before dinner, with the less favorite foods served then, when everyone's getting really hungry. Like I said, I wouldn't make getting the rest of dinner contingent on eating any hors d'oeuvres, but having them there without any competition combined with almost-dinnertime hunger might make them more appealing.

[writermommy]

Whatever they don't eat at meals, I try to make up in snacks. My youngest daughter doesn't always eat vegetables for dinner. So I offer her raw veggies during the day for snacks. This way, she gets what she needs and I don't need to stress at meal times. My oldest daughter is a vegetarian and I get concerned that she doesn't get enough protein. I offer her foods rich in protein for snacks. Since the other 2 eat meat, this is only a problem with the oldest.

My middle child has sensitivities to artificial colors and flavors. She gets tummy aches and has major ADD-like behaviors when she eats this junk. I don't buy any foods with these ingredients. When we are out, we are usually with close friends or family. They are aware of her sensitivities and cooperate by not offering these foods when she is over. I also will bring healthier snacks with us that she likes and can eat without getting sick.

[sanguine_speed]

What about foods that are healthy in moderation, but really shouldn't be eaten in large quantities? Whole wheat bread comes to mind--it has its place in her diet, but if I gave her free choice that's all she would eat. I don't think I should keep it out of the house, but there need to be limits. Even carrots can be toxic in high amounts, as can most things really...I really just can't accept that my child should eat whatever she wants and that I should be able to control that by keeping only healthy foods in the house. I ultimately think that this is a case of safety and an adult decision. Thanks for allowing me to discuss this issue and clarify my own sentiments. I believe that the food my child eats directly impacts her health and wellbeing right now and for years to come. I also believe that she does not have the capacity to make an informed decision on what food she eats. I therefore must impose some restrictions on her eating above and beyond only keeping 'healthy' foods in the house.
Thanks again!!!!!

[nwaddellr]

We go with the "Sorry, X is all gone. If you're still hungry, you can have Y" when I'm worried my DS will eat too much of something that's not all that appropriate. We also do the offer later bit (especially at lunch with dessert - I won't get it out until I'm done with everything else and DS has eaten at least something).

For meals, I refuse to short-order cook, but I give options for every meal but dinner. As in, would you like a bagel and cream cheese or cereal for breakfast. Dinner is what we're having, although we will offer DS a piece of bread and butter if he wants it so he eats something for dinner.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

What about foods that are healthy in moderation, but really shouldn't be eaten in large quantities? Whole wheat bread comes to mind--it has its place in her diet, but if I gave her free choice that's all she would eat. I don't think I should keep it out of the house, but there need to be limits. Even carrots can be toxic in high amounts, as can most things really...I really just can't accept that my child should eat whatever she wants and that I should be able to control that by keeping only healthy foods in the house. I ultimately think that this is a case of safety and an adult decision. Thanks for allowing me to discuss this issue and clarify my own sentiments. I believe that the food my child eats directly impacts her health and wellbeing right now and for years to come. I also believe that she does not have the capacity to make an informed decision on what food she eats. I therefore must impose some restrictions on her eating above and beyond only keeping 'healthy' foods in the house.
Thanks again!!!!!

Try reading "How to get your kid to eat, but not too much" By Ellyn Satter. She really discussed what is an appropriate adult decision "What is served" and what is a child's decision "how much (if any) to eat"

She might make you feel better about allowing your dd to eat a lot of bread and how to work out the feeding relationship.

[johub]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

What about foods that are healthy in moderation, but really shouldn't be eaten in large quantities? Whole wheat bread comes to mind--it has its place in her diet, but if I gave her free choice that's all she would eat. I don't think I should keep it out of the house, but there need to be limits. Even carrots can be toxic in high amounts, as can most things really...I really just can't accept that my child should eat whatever she wants and that I should be able to control that by keeping only healthy foods in the house. I ultimately think that this is a case of safety and an adult decision. Thanks for allowing me to discuss this issue and clarify my own sentiments. I believe that the food my child eats directly impacts her health and wellbeing right now and for years to come. I also believe that she does not have the capacity to make an informed decision on what food she eats. I therefore must impose some restrictions on her eating above and beyond only keeping 'healthy' foods in the house.
Thanks again!!!!!

Well unlike some moms here I also control what I offer my children. THey do not have free reign over the kitchen. SO I simply dont offer the same thing repeatedly.
So if all my kids choose to eat out of their breakfast selection is the whole wheat toast, and they have seconds. Then I probably wont be offering anythign with bread the rest of the day, and I would offer different choices for breakfast the next day.
Parents control not only what they buy, but also what they prepare and offer for meals and snacks.
My kids love carrots, and might eat a handful of baby carrots each day. But I do not offer them carrots at every meal just because they like them.
So if you are offering a meal wiht 4 different items, and your child chooses only one item and eats all of it and asks for more, I would offer more but not a limitless amount. "Yes you can have more carrots, but if you are still hungry you will have to eat somethign else off your plate"
I am a BIG believer in variety, so even if my kids would like to eat whole wheat bread at every meal, I am not offering it at every meal. THey can choose of the healthy foods I have selected for that meal.
You choose what you purchase AND offer, and your child chooses what to eat and how much.
Joline

[heartmama]

We keep healthy foods in the house, and he is free to eat whatever he wants of that, whenever he is hungry. I make suggestions and he is usually agreeable. Sometimes I might put a strong emphasis on something being necessary in greater or lesser amounts in his diet. I don't outright forbid or limit him though. I suppose the extent of my real control is over what comes into the house. Once it is here I think he needs to rely on himself to make good choices. Overall he is very agreeable and this approach has worked well for us.

I also agree with a vitamin supplement. Thare so many out there, from chewables to gummy bears. Even if your children ate the diet you would ideally prefer, the nutritional value of modern foods is low enough to warrant a daily vitamin.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

What about foods that are healthy in moderation, but really shouldn't be eaten in large quantities? Whole wheat bread comes to mind--it has its place in her diet, but if I gave her free choice that's all she would eat. I don't think I should keep it out of the house, but there need to be limits. Even carrots can be toxic in high amounts, as can most things really...I really just can't accept that my child should eat whatever she wants and that I should be able to control that by keeping only healthy foods in the house. I ultimately think that this is a case of safety and an adult decision. Thanks for allowing me to discuss this issue and clarify my own sentiments. I believe that the food my child eats directly impacts her health and wellbeing right now and for years to come. I also believe that she does not have the capacity to make an informed decision on what food she eats. I therefore must impose some restrictions on her eating above and beyond only keeping 'healthy' foods in the house.
Thanks again!!!!!

As Joline said, I don't give DS 'free reign' either - I am the one who offers, and he is the one who decides from what I offer, what to eat. I just always make sure to offer a variety and *at least* one food he likes at each meal...I'm no short order cook either...though if he doesn't want anything I offer, I give him ONE alternative (like a PBJ OR hummus and veggies) AND, if he finishes all that's available of one thing, I tell him ithat's all there is, he can have some of whatever else is out. I just don't worry if it's a lot of one thing and none of another at any one given meal...I look at a whole week for my variety and content, as we said before.

But I also agree with what Joline that if DS decides to only eat whole wheat bread at breakfast, and a whole wheat pita at lunch, you can bet I'm not offering him anything whole wheat at dinner

Oh, and for the record, using this method, I have never had him resist or protest about food. That's my goal - no food battles.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

But I also agree with what Joline that if DS decides to only eat whole wheat bread at breakfast, and a whole wheat pita at lunch, you can bet I'm not offering him anything whole wheat at dinner

Oh, and for the record, using this method, I have never had him resist or protest about food. That's my goal - no food battles.

That's precisely my problem; my child is old enough to know that the whole wheat bread is stored in the fridge. I can't lie to her, and actually I don't like the many suggestions here that tell me to do so (tell her it's not ready, tell her it's all gone) anyway.
So, it's in the house, and she knows where it is. If she asks for it and I say no, then I am controling what she eats. But it would not be reasonable to handle this by not keeping the food in the house, because it's appropriate to serve it sometimes. Just because it's not "served" at dinner does not mean she will not ask for it.

If she asks, and I say "no", then I'm exercising my power over her and disallowing her from choosing what she eats.

I would like to hear from others who have preschoolers on this.

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by maya44

Try reading "How to get your kid to eat, but not too much" By Ellyn Satter. She really discussed what is an appropriate adult decision "What is served" and what is a child's decision "how much (if any) to eat"

She might make you feel better about allowing your dd to eat a lot of bread and how to work out the feeding relationship.

Ellyn also has another book called Child of Mine. They are both widely available. You could find them used or at a library very easily. I had to get them both due to my dd's eating/neck issues but I was very pleased to see how very GD they are. I very nearly no food issues with my nearly 3 year old and almost never struggle or fight with her over food. She eats a healthy diet, over the course of a week, not a day, and she eats a variety of foods. She is still picky, and occasionally we have junk, but overall I know those two books have helped her to be a healthy eater.

They are easy to read, too!

And, she has a website. Ellyn Satter